Hey guys,

I need your help to give me some good tips on replacing my front rotors.

I have a Camaro 1991 V6 and I am thinking of replaceing my stock front rotors to these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevy-Buick-...b7419c&vxp=mtr

or any one of them:
http://www.summitracing.com/compare

What do you think of it ?

Do I need to buy the bearings for them as well ?
What else should I think of before buying and rotors ? I have stock wheels 15".

 

Yes you will need new bearings. There is not any real benifit to the drilled and slotted either.

 

The drilled and slotted are good for dissipating heat in extreme conditions (like track use). But for regular street use they are actually worse because you have less contact surface for the pad. I have drilled and slotted and to be honest I don't race enough to justify having them (and plus they're more expensive anyway!).

 

Slotted = OK, although no better than smooth

Drilled = bad (left over mythology from days gone by); tends to promote cracking

If you REALLY want to UPGRADE your brakes, there's actual UPGRADES you can do. That other is just a bunch of poseur n00bie monkey-spank.

 

I'd say follow what I did with my front brakes for a good performance boost that is affordable.

1) Buy NAPA premium solid front rotors. The 10.5" rotors on our cars are small enough as is. Drilling them makes them effectively smaller than 10.5" (less mass). The front brakes are always going to be hotter than the rears. And a drilled front rotor is just making it more likely that it will crack under hot while stopped situations....... Slotted brakes don't have the cracking worries that drilled rotors do. But they eat your rotors and make noise. Don't bother with slotted rotors on a street car. The NAPA solid front rotors are cheap at $30 each.

Drilled front rotors work well in oversized rotors. Say you replace the 10.5" with a 12" rotor. Now you can have more mass than stock even with the drilled rotor. The larger rotor has less chance of overheating (hot spotting) when stopped. Thus you can get away with a drilled rotor. The drilled 12" rotor being similar to say a 11.7" solid rotor in terms of thermal mass.

2) Replace the front pads with Stillen D-154HD pads. They're no more expensive than any other pads out there, yet have high performance and great street manners.

 

I think I will go for the flat suface ones. Can I install the inner and outer wheel bearings by my self with basic tools or do I need to give it to a mechanic ?

What is the difference between 0LE and 1LE ? Is the V6 model 0LE ?

 

Yup... a BFH and a real dull chisel is all you need. And a block of wood, for the seal.

Never heard of 0LE.

1LE was the RPO code for essentially a race car; sorta like Z28 was at first. (1967)

Regular brakes, which don't have a RPO code because .... they're standard, have a 10.4" rotor and the same single-piston cast-iron Saginaw calipers that GM used on virtually every car from around 72 on up into the 90s. RWD ones at least.

The 1LE system uses 11.8" rotors and 2-piston aluminum calipers made by PBR in Australia. It's COMPLETELY different.

6-cyl brakes and V8 brakes (fronts) are identical in every way, except for the VERY FEW cars that got the 1LE package. Which also came on the B4C cars, which is the RPO for the "police package". The actual 1LE cars were pretty much stripped-down race cars, but the B4Cs could be had with A/C, power this that and the other, etc.; mostly, whatever any given govt agency chose to order on them. Several states had fleets of them as Hwy Patrol type cars, and there were quite a few that were "unmarked" cars as well. Needless to say, they tended to get rode hard and put up wet, and haven't survived all that well for the most part as a result. But you still see em around now and then.

All-around best upgrade for these cars is probably the LS1 brakes. 98-2002 stock Z28/TransAm. They cost about the same to put on as the 1LE would, use PBR calipers as well, and require very similar effort; but have the advantage that there's MANY MANY MANY of them in the world, as opposed to the 1LE system whose total universe is around 1000 units. Makes maintaining them into the future ALOT less of a risk when you can walk up to any parts counter and they'll have the pads and whatnot, as opposed to having to special order stuff and wait until it's fabbed for you.

 

There is absolutely no point in spending the extra cash for slotted or drilled rotors. If you're trying to avoid warping rotors, adjust your driving habits. Drilled and slotted rotors still warp, and like Reid said, you have less material to make use of, and thus less stopping power. Plus, turning drilled rotors is a pain, and the holes fill up with dust after a while and you don't really get the benefit of having them drilled.

 

you really don't think they LOOK 'cooler'?i know they don't work better but imo they just look cool.

 

You're asking a function over form person.

 

I think Dakota has clearly picked up on the general mental attitude I have toward things.

Please explain how something that you can visibly see is FUNCTIONALLY INFERIOR yet COSTS MORE, "looks" "cool".

To me, when I see that stuff on a car, what flashes through my mind is, "there goes another illogical one who got sucked in by the myth and PAID MORE to GET LESS; just another of those people who can't stay on the path because they're too easily distracted by shiny things laying around beside it". Not sure how going around prominently displaying .... THAT .... about yourself, could ever POSSIBLY equate to "cool"? Please explain, as I'm not very bright and I'd like to learn. (and I'm not "cool" either )

 

To be fair, I somewhat agree with the cool factor. But I have GTA wheels, so my brakes are invisible to the person looking at them. Especially the front brakes. The back ones are somewhat visible.

On the other hand, I do agree that putting slotted rotors on a stock HP Honda Civic just shows that the person doesn't know what they're for and did indeed pay more for less performance.

I do find it interesting that some high performance cars mix and match solid vs drilled rotors. BMW M3 and AMG Mercedes. Some have drilled on both front and back. Others have drilled on just the fronts. Their brakes are huge too.

I myself run solid up front and drilled in the rear.

 

Was gonna agree with the cool factor, esp. the zinc washed ones, but the main reason for me in getting drilled / slotted was the "supposed" heat dissipation. I'd like to see somewhere it says that it doesn't dissipate heat better than the standard ones.. Another factor, and this is a real good one, albeit slightly insignificant, is the lighter rotating mass. Stepping up to drilled/slotted 12" from flat 10.5" stockers made a HUUUUUGE difference in braking. So, while there was massive improvement, I was also able to reduce rotating mass and unsprung weight (alum. calipers as well) and maybe, hopefully provide better heat dissipation. I guess it's more important on the rears because that means more power to the wheels (although a very small amount.. 2lbs unsprung rotational weight is still something)
.. my 0.02$

 

Are the aluminum calipers single, dual, quad piston? The stock single piston bricks are worthless, so there's no wonder you'd see an improvement in replacing calipers.

 

I put napa ceramic pads on mine with the napa solid rotors. Pedal effort went way up and the pedal dropped. Napa is telling me that drilled and slotted rotors will solve the problem, but I'm not convinced. Anyone had experience with this? I went ceramic only because of dust problems on my gold wheels.

 

No.

Only way that will make your car stop any better is from weight reduction, centered on the driver's wallet.

 

Yeah they're dual piston aluminum calipers, and the rotors are 12" instead of 10.5", and the lines are steel braided... So yeah it brakes a hundred times better than stock. The car is actually safe now (well, back when I did it in 2009)

 

guys who don't like the drilled and slotted rotors. don't run them.

I can tell you. that if you want them get them. they do cool better.
the slots do work (getting dust away from the face).

and they stop the car. with the same drag force. as a full face flat rotor.
aaaaaalot of cooks in the kitchen. say nayyy....

but I say.. they do work.. they do look cool! and the Zink Keeps them looking Good.
I like the Car to Be Deadly Fast and Look Cool Doing it...Just Me.

and the cost is way way down from 5 years ago.. now you can get a 4 piece set 2 front 2 back for $200 zink plated
front bearings $28 (get Timken)

add a wilwood bolt on front caliper set with pads and pins for
$325 red /black/polished
and you got your self a bolt on upgrade thet is low cost. and will stop the car. better then stock. and not brake the bank..plus. you can bolt it on in your driveway! in 2 hrs.

you can stop! a low 10 sec car. on a dime. drive it all day and still look good. that works for me.. but then that's just me. after all. I do what I like to my car. and have fun doing it. and it looks Fantastic to me.

get a few good books on Racing Brakes/Steet Brakes And get in the know

Keep Doing your Car Your Way

and yes Zink plate Everything!

OOO MY GOD..not a tube K Member and A arms..they Do Nothing to help your Car! and I would never run that Junk!
and just look at the silly coil over ... tisssck Tisssck.. never going to be right... ( all in fun guys/Girls)

add any part ya want. look into the parts./books/ guys who run the stuff. and spend the money
just have Fun Doing It..

 

Yeah, those upgraded calipers don't do anything to stop the car either....Of course that setup stops better than a stock setup. You have upgraded calipers, and better brake pads. It's going to be better than stock regardless of new rotors.

 

the car is stopping just a tad better then stock.. but then im running only a 1/4 of the tire to ground. in the front. and coming down from the 130 mph ball park... so yes its a better then stock set up..and just the new brakes dropped about 12lbs off the mass..of the car...

 

You're completely missing the point.

 

No..i think you are..the OP asked about this type of set up/parts.. I gave a reply... or did you read the post at all...

and with the stock size of rotor. the size of the single piston has more clamping force the a 2 piston caliper of this same size..
that is right from Wilwood... also IMO.. (they also sell this same set up with 2 pistons ) if ya got to have 2 pistons..
like I posted get a few good books on brakes and get in the know.. don't by into the old Fable/ wivestail. that gets puked up all the time


ya see im not like the rest
I will not run anything in a SBC under 427 inch....cubes it the way to go!! this is my last small block..whats nexed? 600 cid?...hhhuuummm
I will only use the top name part.s known to hold up to hard use (= no Pro Comp Parts or the sort)
I do not cut corners when it comes to bolting my car together(nothing is temp)
I DO NOT follow what every body else is doing ..without. researching it.. (get in the know)
I will put my car together the way I want to (just me)
and..if it looks used get rid of it!
its got ta look good!
I will not even drive on a wet street...(I know over the top) but when your 92 Camaro finish under the car looks like it did the day it came from GM... why brake a habit!..just me..

this is the way my car looked after letting it set in my shop in back of my house for 9 years...(after the wash up)
just like it did when I tucked it away....


this is what 9 years of dust looks like.....


new stuff soon!
its been 3 years in the remaking..

 

Actually, the OP asked specifically about rotors. I don't care at all about what you do to your car; It's not my car, afterall. On a street car with stock calipers and pads, drilled or slotted or both rotors will not make a noticeable difference. Of course upgrading the entire brake system will make a difference, but we're talking about upgrading rotors with the stock system. If you want to brag about your car start a thread for it, don't clutter others' threads.

 

ya still don't get it... the same size piston in a steel or aluminum caliper will applay the same clamping force. on the same size rotor. lol

the rotor will cool faster with holes/slots or what have you....lol
as for bragn....ya still don't get it...been there.. done that and the hot rod thing long ago.....
and as for turning drilled rotors being a pain to turn....your doing it wrong then...


get a book...read...buy the parts...use them.... then give true feedback...(no wives tail/.bench racing)..thats all im sayn.

 

Guys, entertaining thread.

The reality is that the VAST majority of the rotor cooling comes from the cooling vanes. That is their job. Air is drawn in from the hat travels radially out the rotor, exchanging heat with the vane surfaces, and exits the edge of the rotor. The rotor is basically a centrifugal pump.

Rotors with larger diameter cool better because the vanes have a larger surface area.

Rotors with more cooling vanes cool better because the rotor has a larger cooling surface area.

Rotors with curved vanes (with proper design) cool better because they have a larger pressure differential between the the vane entry and vane exit.

A minor amount of cooling comes from convection and radiation off the friction surfaces. This is a very minor effect and should not be be considered when sizing a system. Slotted rotors only have surface slots and the their effect on cooling is negligible.

Regarding drilled rotors. There is a theory that air traveling inside the cooling vanes is at a lower pressure than the air near the friction surface. Thus the air near the friction surfaces gets pulled into the drilled holes, cooling the inside surface area of the drilled hole and the remainder of the cooling vane. I doubt this adds any significant cooling to the rotor, and could argue it would make it worse. Tests on the subject seem inconclusive. Some show slightly better cooling, others show no difference. It probably has to do with efficient the rotor cooling vanes are to begin with and the location of the holes.

 

it all helps out..some better then others.

how/what the car is used for. is the other thing.

 

I work with a lot of Full auto weapons. (belt fed MG's)
the more surface area you have the more cooling you have.
so the holes make/add more Surface area. so yes they cool better.
simple math

 

Holes reduce the surface area...simple common sense...

 

Rotor has two primary functions.
1. Store heat
2. Reject heat

Cars are not subjected to a constant heat source like a belt fed machine gun that is designed to run full bore until the ammo runs out.

When you are using the brakes to slow the car, the rotor is primarily acting to absorb the heat of friction from the deceleration. There is no way a rotor of typical design can reject heat as fast as we can introduce it. So it needs to store the heat and slowly but continually reject it through the cooling vanes as the car continues to drive.

Drilling the rotors will reduce the heat capacity of the rotor. The heat capacity is defined by the mass of the rotor and the material.

The cooling vanes contribute the VAST majority of the heat rejection of the rotor. The vanes are designed to create a change in pressure from the hat to the outside of the fins that draws air through the vane. By adding holes to the vane, it is anyone's guess what you are doing to the efficiency of the pump, without CFD.

Regardless, this the first time I have ever seen someone argue drilled rotors are for improved cooling. The holes are there to allow an escape path for gases created by the burning of the glue in the pads. This is no longer an issue for modern pads. Today, the drilled holes are for looks and for increasing your pad wear rate.

 

Hi, you've mentioned books a couple of times and was wondering which books you are referring to? I'm always up for a good read.

 

there are 2 books that top the list in easy to read put out by HP. will dig them up and post.
..they give a run down of the brake set ups/types.
road race/drag race/ auto cross type stuff..

and the holes and slots are to help get gas and dust away from the rotor face and pad..cooling is a side bonus as well...any time you add Suface Area.
you add in cooling....just so ya know..simple math..
the holes add Suface area...

and as for full autos: designed to run full bore until the ammo runs out.: thats not how it works..sorry..you will Destroy a Barrel doing that.
by over heating it ya see..even Mg barrels need to cool also....its only a movie gun that works like that...same for Cars..
ya see we add Flutes to some gun barrels..this in turn adds..Suface Area
Suface Area aids in cooling..and dont even get me started on Salight (spelling) some MGs us it in barrel as a lining/barrel meterial.
most of mine are Hard Chrome lined..love my Hk line of wepons..
barrel erosion is what its called.. think of putting a small blow torch to a sheet of steel...this is whats going on just off the case neck in a barrel of any gun. never a prob..but".now run a gun up to 950rds a min..is when it comes into play...just so ya know..
unlike any of my Suppressors..i can run them to red hot (glowing) red..and it dont matter to that part...unless its a cheap *** can..
as for warping...never had a barrel do that..even when glowing red hot.. let it cool down..and it still holds Zero..now why do ya think that is..cuzz its not a cheap *** POS...just sayn ..below is one of my Home Defense Guns...just in case the cops kick in the wrong door..love 308cal/762x51 nato..ya ever play black ops?? this is the real HK21!

also same gun with out suppressor..note: 100rd burst..i stop to let gun come down..and cooling..dont seem like it..but i do
another myth..look close down rang..rds all hit car door size target 100 yards away...this is not spray and pray.. this gun is a tack driver even on full auto...