Have any of you been to the site http:/www.frozenrotors.com ?

Ok, here is the gig -- they take a set of premium brake rotors for your car and deep freeze them for 3-4 days at -300 degrees fahrenheit. They call it cryogenics.

Apparently this treament alters the metal in such a way that it dramatically improves braking ability and rotor endurance. Pretty much guarantees you will never warp one of their rotors.

Sound crazy ?! Well don't shoot me I'm only the messenger -- go check out the web site !

I talked to the guy (owner) for about 1/2 hour (on the phone) and he has a compelling case. He got his start by applying cryogenic method to military equipment. He says gun barrel service life triples when he applys his treatment and this is where he got his start in business -- freezing guns. Go figure eh ?

If I can't do a 1LE conversion (too much $$$, parts availability) then what can I get that is 2nd best ? He will send me a set of rotors drilled and cross cut for about $240 US a pair. I was considering these rotors, carbon fiber pads and flex-steel brake lines for the front-end. Should improve my braking dramatically.

Any thoughts ?

RP.

 

I saw a telivision show on that years ago I think it was hot rod TV or something and I think Super Chevy also had an article on it years ago. All your getting are stock rotors that have gone through his special treatment which looks pretty pricey to me. For the same price you could go through 2 sets of rotors and they would probably last a little longer than one set of his special rotors. Besides you have to look at the fact that since they are stock rotors you will not experience any improvement in braking performance. All they will do is last longer and for the price he is asking it's not even worth it. What sort of Improvements does he state his treatment will offer, how many additional miles will a set of his rotors go for?

 

I thought it was pricey but not out of line if what they are offering is real. I suppose what I am really after is:

1) reduced propensity to warpage
2) drilled and cross cut

... all in a reasonably priced package.

Not sure if I mentioned the price included both drill 'n cross-cut ? I think they claim their rotors last 2-3 times longer than non-treated units.


RP.

 

Sounds to me like all they are doing is hardening the rotors. Subjecting the rotor to extreme low temps may or may not alter the basic matrix of the rotor, but, hardening will NOT improve brake performance. I suspect it will do just the opposite. I think I would try and find someone that is actually using this process to see what they think.......

 

I read about this "cryofreezing" stuff in some kind of hot rod magazine a few months back. It was not a secondary company like frozenrotors.com, it was the original owners that started it (don't remember the name). Somewhere in the Ohio area states? I can't really remember. They would freeze anything that you'd want. I think the price for freezing an engine and most of it's internal components was something like $525. Maybe I'll try and find that company and post back here. I'm sure they could do your rotors for cheaper than the other's.

 

So far what I have picked up is the treated rotor responds to heat and cools in an improved manner over stock systems. If I understand correctly, under pressure (braking) the rotors carry less heat than stock allowing for improved response from the interaction of the pads with metal. This would seem to be where FR's product 'improves performance'. I don't know enough about cryogenics to agree or disagree although it is reasonable to conclude that hardening is part of their process and just as reasonable to conclude that their process improves braking performance. Still, I wouldn't disclaim Frozen Rotors service/product without knowing the facts behind that same process.

You should consider giving FrozenRotors a call (888-323-8456) before you claim 'hardening will NOT improve brake performance'.

I am still trying to find someone who is using these treated rotors -- that is why I originally posted. I am very curious about their process and remain open minded to the subject. I look forward to read your post with your findings after you either call them or check out their website.

have a nice day,
RP.

 

I had my rotors cryogenically frozen until they find a cure for them not being 1LE units . Hehe, I'm suprised it took someone this long to say that.

 

dont remember much about it
but I think I heard something about the freezing will change the structure of the metal so it will form a longer lasting surface and resist the heat/cool cycle
also it is to make for a better grab on the rotors b/c of the new structure.

but as far as I think it is prolly just some snake oil
might work yeah but worth the money on the other hand????



I would rather go out and buy some upgraded rotors and pads if anything else

oh yeah as for using cross drilled rotors
I would say that is a big no no. it is not going to help your car stop better unless you are having lots of gas build up under the pads. since it takes away from the surface of the rotor you are now taking away the much needed friction to help in the stopping of the car. also they tend to have fracture points where the drill holes are and can cause nasty stopping problems if your car breaks of them. also since you are taking away from the surface of the rotor and you are having cooling problems with your brakes you can just make the problem worse by not having as much mass to help with the heat.. kinda like taking a big heat sink and removing a bunch of the metal


if you are really having problems with gas build up under your pads I would say to go with the slotted rotors being that they dont take away as much surface of the rotor

 

Hahahahahahaha... pretty good humour !

 

Glad you brought up the drill and cross cut. It seems to me that you had better increase swept area (larger rotors) and pad pressure (upgraded calipers) if you are going to start removing real estate on the rotor. You must compensate for the reduction in swept area. Because of this I am hesitant to buy any rotors that are cut -- not to mention 99% of shops won't turn them.

That said, FR offers drill & cutting for $60 per rotor which is pretty cheap or at worst reasonable. So I was considering it, maybe try it and see what I thought ? For what it is worth I never set out to find drilled and cut rotors, rather, something that would not be subject to warping -- I am driven to distraction by pulsating brake pedals and shaking steering wheels caused by warped rotors and haven't (yet) found a decent aftermarket rotor at reasonable cost.

The people at FR tell me that their rotors will last from between 100% and 300% longer than stock after their treatment has been applied, on a track driven race car. It is reasonable to assume that if this claim is true then on a street driven application (like my Formula) they would survive even longer.

BTW: a friend of mine had a beauty '87 Turbo II with two turbos (aftermarket mod), ignition upgrades, etc. Outrageously fast sports car and a riot to drive. He blew it up too. Now he drives a Ford Taurus (which is always in on warranty claims).

have a nice day,
RP.

 

Even stock braking systems apply enough pressure and make enough friction to overwork the tires. That said the only problem with stock brakes is that they can't disapate heat fast enough and end up getting gooey. That is what drilling and cutting helps. It increases surface area for cooling and adds turbulance for better cooling. Taking weight off of rotating mass also helps with acceleration. Holes and slots do add stress concentrations and will make the rotor more likely to crack. As long as you can lock up the tires under braking you don't need bigger brakes, but bigger brakes will disapate more heat and thus resist fade better than small brakes.

The properties of steel are determined by how quickly and how long it is cooled after being cast/forged or heated to the point that the molecular structure is changed. The faster and longer you cool it basically results in very hard very BRITTLE steel. Most steels are reheated after cooling to relieve stress and decrease brittleness. Cryo cooling increases the amount of Martensite in the steel. Steel with pure Martensite structure is the hardest and most brittle steel possible. By making the rotors harder it increases their life by making them more wear resistant. Just remember, after you turn the rotors cherry a couple of times say bye-bye to that very expensive heat treatment you just got.

 

Do our street brakes actually get that hot ?

I know that if I hit a puddle of water at it hits the rotors sometimes I can see steam. I am wondering if they ever get "red hot" on the street. Is this how they get warped ?. If so maybe some ducting is in order -- to get cool air to the rotors ? Anyone tried this approach ?

thx, RP.

 

Warping is from heating and cooling too quickly and unevenly. It leaves residual thermal stress in the rotor which changes the shape. It basically works just like a bimetalic strip. One section heats/cools (expands/contracts) at a different rate than the other and the material changes shape. Yes, if driven hard enough they will turn cherry. After several very fast high speed stops like in racing. I know people who have MELTED their stock rotors emergency stopping at 140 mph. All of the brakes on racecars have ducting, and they still kill an entire set after a race.

 

better brakes start to come into play when you are going at faster speeds like you might do if you are racing or going at freeway speeds. at that point your stock brakes are either going to get too hot and then cause the brakes to fade and might also not be able to put enugh friction on the rotors. when you get bigger rotors it not only creates more leverage and therefor you dont need near as much friction and that gives you less heat you also get better control over the brakes.

as for drilling the rotors the problem comes is you now again have less of a contact patch for the pads to bite into and since it is also taking away from the mass of the rotor you are B]NOT[/B] going to get as good of cooling you are going to eat your pads up a lot more and wear on the rotors more.
cross drilling of the rotors I have heard nothing but bad about them and where ppl try them and they have issues with cooling or there car doesn't stop as fast stuff like that. have heard quite a few stories where they just break the rotor.

if you are to do anything like that go with slotted rotors. not near as much mass gets taken so you are not going to have quite a loss of cooling ability nor are you going to put as much stress points on the rotor as with the cross drilling

but there is really no need to do any of the above if your pads are not getting gas build up. if you do either all you are going to do is cause your rotors to run hotter, eat your pads more, eat up those nice fancy rotors, and chance breaking stuff

yes I know I said a lot of this in my last post but everything I understand about them is they are not worth it unless you have gas or dust buildup under your pads. that way you guys dont go out and get them and then come home with more problems then what you started with

 

I haven't had any problems with my crossdrilled rotors yet; going on two years now. Other than eating up pads every six months, but that was solved by going to a semi-metallic instead of a full-metallic pad with no change in braking ability.

As a matter of fact, I scared the crap out of a passenger the other day braking at the last second taking a 90 degree turn after which he blurted out "Holy ****, you have good brakes!". Personally, I think my brakes suck, but I've driven cars with 12, 13, 14 inch rotors, some with ABS, so I have much to left to want on my stock setup.

But some of you guys are trying to apply "race" theory to "street" cars or vice versa. While the two are somewhat interrelated, they're also somewhat exclusive of each other. In other words, the difference in swept area on drilled or undrilled rotors may or may not make a difference on a Winston Cup track, but on the street under normal driving you'd be hard put to find a noticable difference.

Going back to the original question ("any thoughts?"), the same amount of money can be spent on or put towards a brake conversion (1LE, Baer, etc.) and make a bigger difference than cryotreatment. I'm not saying it doesn't make a difference, just that it might not be worth the cost on a "non-extreme" application. And I don't care how wild some street guys drive, let's keep it in perspective: it's not "extreme" compared to cars born and bred to run on a track.

 

I have 2 piece ultralight rotors that were cryo'ed .. it's for increasing life ONLY !! no difference in performance !!!!!! deep freezing metal , crystalizes the grain structure ... simular to
compairing block salt , that feels like sand stone and crumbles in your hand and rock salt !!!! which you have to break with a hammer !! I HIGHLY recommend this process for ANY wear metal you want to last longer !!! it won't make your brakes any better though :\ ... but imagine what it will do for factory rods
cranks .. axles ... transmissions ... etc etc etc ....

another cheap and easy process is heating and then packing with dry ice .. this only works on STEEL .. as this gives a 8-20 mil thick carbonizing layer .. works REALLY good on cranks !!!!

best bang for your bux in brakes would be PADS ... then some maybe some ducts ... best 75 bux you'll spend rybestos brute stops are AWEOME !! easily available at all pepboys !!! major draw back is dust :\

 

The only way to improve braking performance is to increase friction delivered to the rotor by using : better pads (stickier compound friction material), increased piston calipers that will deliver more clamping force to rotor (going from one, to two or more pistons per caliper). Or bigger rotors ( added diameter will increase the leverage the caliper has on rotating rotor). By using one or all of the above methods braking performance will be enhanced.
My two cents.