Cadmaro

iTrader: (1)

I'm having spongy pedal and lack if e brake issue with my 1985 trans am and since it is a 5 speed car it is extra annoying. If I buy reman calipers, will they have the correct post recall adjusters? If not, is there a caliper upgrade that retains the e brake and doesn't involve removing the axles/backing plates?

KyleF

Both may be solved by adjusting the cable and using it 20/30 times in a row, but maybe not.

Why do you think you need new calipers? Are you seeing any leaks? Have you tried adjusting them?

The other thing to consider is the spring upgrade. That has the rears do a bit more braking.

They suffer a bad reputation, but I have had them on an 86 TA and now my 88 IROC. Both have worked. 3rd gen brakes aren't the greatest. I just had to face that fact. I am not happy with my pedal travel, but the brakes work fine.

Cadmaro

iTrader: (1)

No leaks but I think it needs new calipers because they back off when you let off the brakes. I think this is the reason that the ebrake doesn't work. Not enough travel in the cables to make up the slack in the caliper and still clamp the rotor.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Which means, they need adjustment. Which as stated, is accomplished by using the parking brake. (no "emergency" brake on these cars, that I'm aware of...) Or, by taking them apart and screwing the pistons out manually. Which might be all but necessary; if the calipers retract enough to see visually, you're probably looking at more like 300 applications and releases of the parking brake to adjust them back up, as compared to 30.

AFAIK "rebuilt" calipers don't include the recall kit. Not a bad idea to go ahead and replace them, regardless. Just buy a pr of the kits and install them to the calipers before installing the calipers.

Same for the spring upgrade. You're not really faced with an either/or here. You can do as many renewals and upgrades as you want, no worries.

Just be aware though, NONE of the "upgrades" will somehow "compensate" for brakes that need adjustment.

Cadmaro

iTrader: (1)

After looking at the recall kit, is that not everything needed to rebuild the caliper? If so I may just go that route until I find the parts/motivation to do the pbr swap. I guess if I'm gonna have to rebleed the brakes I will do the spring upgrade while I'm at it

KyleF

If your brakes don't work one day, are you grabbing the parking brake handle to help slow the car down? Yes... and it can be used in this manner in an emergency. I used my Parking brake lever to give a bit of extra squeeze while bedding in the new rears.

Cadmaro, if you have no leaks and you have travel in the pads, the calipers are fine. Do you use your parking brake every time you park the car? If not, this is why they are out of adjustment.

1. Jack the rear end up, put the axle on jack stands

2. Loosen the equalizer bar until you can remove the cables from the calipers.

3. *Do one side at a time

4. Remove the return spring, actuation arm, and seal. Hold the actuator arm to prevent anything moving while removing the nut.

5. Mark where a flat of the adjuster screw is on the caliper body so you can align the screw in the later steps.

6. Now the adjuster screws can go right into the calipers if you twist and push. So to adjust them, I put a thick washer against the caliper housing. Put a box end wrench on the screw and use the nut that was retaining the arm to retain the wrench (This allows the adjuster to spin, push the pads out, and allow the hex on the double lead screw to poke out enough to get the arm back on.)

7. Turn Clock wise to extend the pads to the rotor. Turn until you have resistance and you can't move the rotor. The pads should be set to just about dragging.

8. Check mark... if it is not lined up, you won't get the lever arm back on in the right spot. The level arm should go back over the adjusting screw and rest against the stop on the caliper, when pulled away there should be no more than 1/8" of gap between the arm and the stop.

9. If the alignment is not correct, turn the screw counter clockwise. With the double lead, this will release pressure on the pads but not pull the back. Rotate a bit further so you are starting in a different location, and turn it back in again with the washer, nut, and wrench

10. You will repeat this process until you get it right. No magic here, just have to get it right. If there is some fluid leak around the seal during the rotation of the screw, it is perfectly normal. Right is pads almost dragging the rotors and less that a 1/8” of travel between the stop and the parking brake actuation arm before it hits resistance.

11. Put seal on screw, place arm on screw, and tighten retaining nut

12. Do the other side.

13. Reassemble return springs and parking brake cables.

14. Tighten equalizer bar until the hand leaver is difficult to get to 14 clicks (I believe the Factory Service Manual calls for 125lbs. of force on the parking brake arm to achieve 14 clicks)

15. Check that the parking brake works and when released it is not holding the pads against the rotors.

16. Optional step, but I recommend it in case any air seeped in while adjusting the screws. Pull parking brake on and off multiple times and push the brake pedal down each time they are extended. Leave parking brake set and bleed the rear brakes.

17. then use the parking brake every time you park the car to keep them in adjustment.

Cadmaro

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the great info! I will give that a try before I go throwing money at it. I haven't been using the parking brake but will start so I don't have to mess with it again soon

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

No in fact, I'm NOT, because I already know it's a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME. I should INSTEAD be doing something that can actually slow the car down; like shifting into a lower gear with the hand that would be TOTALLY INEFFECTIVE if it was gripping the PARKING BRAKE handle in panic.

Yes I've been driving cars when their hydraulic system failed. First time, it was a 60 Chevy coasting down a hill when a rubber line burst (single MC), but I was too young and stoooopid and panicked to THIMK my way through the situation. I tried the PARKING brake (left foot) but it only barely detectably slowed the car for an instant and then stopped doing anything. I rear-ended a Pinto, which then rear-ended ANOTHER Pinto. To my everlasting disappointment, neither one exploded. The second time I was in a truck pulling a HEAVY trailer on a BUSY city street, and a steel line that had rusted through, popped as I was coming to a traffic light that unexpectedly turned red with people who stopped in front of me, in a vehicle whose PARKING brake basically was disabled. That time I used my brain instead of my panic and avoided a mishap.

KyleF

Well, that was entertaining. Yes, downshifting of course helps in such a situation and should be used, but the parking brake can be used in slowing the car down. I don't know why you say it is a waste of time. I can slow my car down with it and it is almost impossible to pull it tight enough to lock up the wheels. I am not suggesting in such a situation you want to "lock" the rear brake on - I would say you would hold the lock button in and apply so it wouldn't lock up. but in our cars it won't lock the rears up so maybe you can.

If you can hold the lock button in and pull up on the parking brake lever and nothing happens, you need to adjust the brake.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I got reman ACDelco calipers for my 86, and after proper adjustment they work just fine. It does take some fiddling to get the parking brake adjusted correctly. In my case I had the ONE automatic car in the world that the owner had not only used the parking brake, but used it so frequently and with aggression that they wallowed out the pin hole in the handle, wore grooves in the pin, and stripped the ratcheting mechanism pawl OFF. And there was evidence that it wasn't a virgin and I wasn't the first to have replaced the handle..... So after replacing the handle from my parts car - another automatic with a pristine handle as expected because no one ever used it. - and proper adjustment (125 lbs pull to get to 14 clicks) everything works and adjusts as designed.

I agree with KyleF - these aren't super powerful parking brakes. You can't lock up the wheels with them. It might help to slow the vehicle in an emergency but I wouldn't call it an "emergency" brake. It's a parking brake, and only if properly adjusted will it even do that. And the parking brake arms need to be quite tight. They should move very little before they grab the rotor. After experimentation I found they need to be almost dragging when they are on the caliper stop for the arm. No more than 1/8" of movement when you push on the weight attached to the arm.

GD

Cadmaro

iTrader: (1)

I spent most of the day Sunday fighting the adjustment on these things. Will probably be a lot easier if I ever have to do them again since I now understand how they work. I couldn't get them to 1/8 inch of play but I did get one side to about 3/16 and the other around 7/32. Also had to replace one of the cables because it was frozen and wouldn't return once pulled. The squish in my brake pedal is gone now and the parking brake now holds the car in place. The car actually stops pretty well now but I wouldn't call it stellar. I will most likely upgrade to pbr rears and ls1 fronts at some time in the future but may try the bias spring first and see if that is enough to make me happy. Thanks for all the help and advice folks!

KyleF

Good to hear and thanks for posting a follow up.

[QUOTE=Cadmaro;6303428I will most likely upgrade to pbr rears and ls1 fronts at some time in the future but may try the bias spring first and see if that is enough to make me happy. [/QUOTE]

Even with LS1 and PBR I doubt it will be stellar. The best your brakes can do is lock the tires up. Once you are reaching that point, it's all about tires. Better ones that stick better and would require higher brake torque to lock up would be the only next step. You can go to better components that will have a better feel, easier to modulate, and resist fade but the car can only stop as good as the tires grip.

The brake spring is cheap and easy. I suggest you do it first anyway.