89IRO

O.K. guys- I know nothing about audo equipment so I'm gonna need some help here- read on.. My car is an '89 IROC-Z 350 TPI. Last month I got a Pioneer 45x4 head unit along with 4 blaupunk (I know that's not how you spell it) speakers installed. Man, did it sound great over the stock radio and speakers but now I think I want a little more "kick" out of it... maybe a little more sound and bass (is it bass or base?) So what do I do? I've heard going with an amp alone, and then I've heard to put in an amp and two subwoofers. Will the amp alone give me what I'm looking for or do I also need the subwoofers? I mean I'm not trying to blow out my windows here, just want a little more out of it. Will these speakers be able to take that extra "ummph"? By the way, where in the car is my stock amp located (if I have one?) And if I do just put in an amp, where would I install it- I mean it's a camaro- not much space. And last question- what kind of amp do I get- I've seen like 2-channel and other crap like that? Well, I've probably just made all of you laugh your asses off at my stupid questions but help would be apreceiated. Sorry if I spelled stuff wrong, it's late... SUGGESTIONS??? -89IRO

socal85tam

iTrader: (4)

I just finished upgrading the sound system on my camaro.
I installed a pair of 4x6 speakers on the dash and a pair of 6x9 on the sail panels. I dont get too much bass out of this speakers so I needed something for the bass. I installed a pair of pioneer subs powered by a 150watt RMS amp, and when I turn the subs on, the music really comes alive.

I think that you won't be able to get that much from those speakers alone, but I beleive that they can be all rigth for your mid and high frequencies if you use them with a pair of subs and an amp ( for the subs ).

I like pioneer head units and I think that they have enough power for the speakers you have. I have a pioneer cd player on my transam and two pairs of pioneer 4x6 speakers, and on that car I also have a pair of pioneer 12" subs, and IMO it sounds great.
Good luck

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

I would say that a subwoofer install is in your near future.

A single 10" sub and a decent amp will play plenty loud and won't weigh down your car or your wallet. Spend a little while listening to different subs and pick the one you like the sound of. There are a lot of good sounding 10" subs for $100 out there. I'd reccomend getting an empty tube for the sub. They're cheap, they fit very well down in the bottom of the storage area in the thirdgens, and they are easy to remove. Having a custom box built is another choice. Anyway, you'll also needa decent 2 channel amp. Don't try to save a buck or 2 by buying a low powered single-channel amp. Although it'll work fine for this application, it becomes totally wasted when you upgrade later on. If you get a decent 2 channel amp, you can bridge it for the sub, but if you decide later on that you want more power, you can still use this 2 channel amp to power your front speakers.

Figure on $100 for the sub, $200 for the amp, $50 for the tube, and $50-70 for wiring and other miscallenous crap.

Ragnarok_Tyr

If you're not looking for earth-shattering bass, then you might want to think about simply amplifying your speakers, and forgetting about a subwoofer (although I highly recommend a sub). Your deck is putting out more like 22W to your speakers, and even something like a 4-channel, 50W RMS amp could get you that extra punch you're looking for. I have a budget 12" sub and 300W amp, but my 6x9s have 100W each as well, and they don't sound bad at all.

89IRO

Alright, so should I go with one or two 10" subs? And I should expect to pay around $100 for each sub- for a quality one anyways? And I've seen 2 channel amps for around $100- does that sound right? O.K., so if I just go with a 2 channel amp, and 2 10" subs, this will fit my needs right? And where in the car am I going to put all this crap? In the trunk or what? And I'm still a little confused as far as the wattage goes- what kind of wattage should I be looking for for the subs and amp? And my Pioneer (45x4) head unit will be able to handle all this right? Is RMS a brand of amps? Is that like the best brand out there or what? -89IRO

89IRO

Had one more question- can you actually control when you want your sub(s) on or do you always have to be driving around with the loud bass. Do they come with like an on/off switch or something? Cause I'm just a little concerned with scaring my grandma. LOL. Sorry guys I no nothing about sound systems. Oh and I just though about something. What if I were to go with a single 12" sub- would I get the same sound effect as the dual 10" but at maybe a lower price and space and weight savings. Tell me what you think. -89IRO

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

1. One sub is a good place to start. If you need it louder, upgrade later. Invest your cash into the amp. No $100 amp is worth a sh*t. $200-250 (of brand name stuff) gets you some respectable amplification, and one sub with a good amp will play louder than 2 subs with a crap amp.

2. You don't "need" it to be driving around with loud bass. If it's set up properly, the result will be a smooth, full-range response, not a boom car. The point of a subwoofer is not necessarily to make the bass louder (unless that's what you like), but to simply add low frequency extention to make up for the lack of content from your smaller speakers. A properly tuned system should never cause you to want to turn the bass down.

89IRO

O.K., thanks for the help guys, I have just one more question- if I get the amp plus the sub(s), am I going to have to install an equalizer? I'm not sure what it is and what its function is, but I keep hearing about it. If I do need it, what is it going to do for me, where am I going to install it (because there is no more room on my console below or above my pioneer head unit), and what is the best brand? Thanks. -89IRO

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

You don't need an equalizer. All an equalizer does is boost or attenuate a bunch of narrow frequency bands. You know how some radios have base and treble controls, and others have bass, mid and treble? Well that's an equalizer, although most aftermarket ones have 10 or more bands instead of just 2 or 3. It's absolutely NOT necessary, although when used properly it can help the sound. Most people buy them and just crank the bass & treble settings. It's nice if that's how you like it, but what they are intended for is to help fix frequency response irregularities that can result from a million different things.

KlayBuRn

Ok dude, im sure you have most of your questions answered, but im here to drop in on this you had here...

For your application, id say 100-250 watts RMS, RMS is the constant amount of power the amp provides or the speaker can handle, dont even pay attention to peak power, and a general rule of thumb, anything that only rates in peak, is generally not worth buying, so dont even bother with peak, and just look at RMS...

Will your pioneer be able to handle all this? the cd player itself doesnt do anything, your cd player can power 4 speakers with 45 watts RMS to each...you will hook your amp up with RCA's to back of your pioneer there, and it sends the music signal to the amp, and it boosts it, which is why its called an amplifier...

Brands to stay with are kenwood, pioneer, rockford fosgate, etc, etc...

just trying to help ya out a bit...its a little confusing at first, but once you do it, its cake after that i think...

89IRO

Alright, thanks for the help guys. -89IRO

Gumby

buy a cheap 100dollar amp, few years ago t that would be a waste but technology has moved so much, 100 buck amps can give great sound.

Just try and have more amp than your speakers, everyone lies on the amps, everyone lies on the speakers, just have more amp than speakers and your set.

Dont beleive me, Ill make your ears bleed and scramble your egges with this 100buck jem.

Gumby

4 Channel Amplifier
- Tri-Way Output Configuration:
4 x 300 Watts Output
2 x 600 Watts Bridged Output
2 x 300 Watts Front + 1 x 600 Watts Rear
- 1200 Watts Total Output
- Polished Chrome Finish w/ Plexiglass Panel
- Integrated Heatsink for Efficient
Heat Dissipation
- Remote Control Bass Booster
(0-12dB @ 60Hz)
- Fully Adjustable Electronic
Crossover Network
- Soft Turn On/Off Circuit
- 2 Ohm Stereo Stable
- Bridgeable into 4 Ohms
- Dual MOSFET PWM Power Supplies
- Variable Gain Control
- Remote Turn On/Off
- Hi/Lo Level Inputs
- Power On LED Indicator
- LED Protection Indicator
- S/N Ratio: >90dB
- THD: <0.4%
- Frequency Response: 20Hz-30k Hz
- Thermal, Overload & Short Circuit Protection
- Dimensions: 2"H x 11"W x 14.2"L



http://7925.adahost.com/computer/index.html?item11351.html

junkyarddog

I will I agree with gumby, only because I think he knows that thing wouldn't put out 1200 watts if it was struck by lighting!

my friend bought a profile california series 500w amp for $175, it was a decent amp and powered two sealed 12" subs just fine. it didn't sound anything like my old 500 watt JL Audio mono-block amp for obvious reasons. I loved how my friend always argued that it was putting out 500 watts because it said so, I didn't have the heart to show him the small printin the back of the owner's manual that rated it at 350 watts RMS.....still a little overrated.

new electronics these days are making lots of high dollar merchandise obsolete, look at altec lansing computer speakers for instance......30 watt system that sounds better than some of these so called "200 book shelf systems"

the same friend who used the profile amp, used a $175 pioneer HU that was very impessive for it's price. Just a few years ago, you would spend at least $400 for a CD player that had all the features,output power and clarity that this unit had.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Make sure you listen to a real amp before you make an impulse buy on some cheap flea market amp.

I'll put my "60 watt" Kicker amp up against ANY legacy, pyramid, boss, profile, etc. amp regardless of what it's rated at.

The cost of quality amplifiers hasn't come down as much as it has for things like head units. A lot of the lower priced head units pack in a ton of features at a reasonable price for 2 reasons: The first is that those things are produced in MASSIVE quantities, and the $150 deck uses 90% of the same parts as the $400 deck. When you produce stuff in that kind of quantity, especially when it's just circuit boards and a cd motor, you can make it cheap. Second, the quality of their parts has gone down. You won't find the kind of reliability with a new cd deck as you did 5 years ago. It's a fact of life. They are considered a disposable commodity now. Nobody keeps their deck more than a couple years, so for the most part it's not a big issue.

But with amplifiers, it's not the same situation. A lot of the parts in a line of amplifiers is the same, but a considerable portion of it is unique to each amp. Add to that the fact that amps are produced in substantially smaller quantities than head units, and the fact that the parts in an amp are substantially more expensive than what you find in a head unit, and you'll realize that a $100 amp is obviously cutting some MAJOR corners. They use the cheapest hardware possible, the tolerances are horrible, and they make huge comprimises. The result is an unreliable amplifier that makes questionable power under ideal circumstances, and lousy power the rest of the time.

For $200 you can get a good powered brand name amp (rockford, kicker, PPI, orion, etc) that will play louder and sound better than that cheap stuff. It's good enough stuff that it will last forever, and work well no matter how you reconfigure your system. I've owned plenty of cheap stuff to know that it's not worth the money. I wish I had a camera with me last time I opened up a Pyramid amp. It was the most pathetic thing I've ever seen. An amp that was over 12" long, 10" wide, and when I opened it up the entire circuit board was small enough to fit into a walkman.

89IRO

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Y9toPs5...Comp.asp?g=110


Go to the above link. There, you will be taken to the Crutchfield website where I selected different amps in my price range ($150-$250.) Since there is so much jibberish there that I don't understand, can you guys come up with a good amp for me? Base it all on dual 10" subs. I've already got a Pioneer HU, and 4 blaupaunk speakers. -89IRO

KlayBuRn

I'm no electronics expert, but i have taken a few amps apart, and noticed what is going on...

Sure, go buy that amp that Gumby is talking about...BUt why compromise in sound...

I went from Jensen to Pioneer once...sure, Jensen aint great, but neither is none of this other stuff that people talk about, but anyways, just going from one amp to another(not changing anything else), !@#$!@$!@#, i was amazed at the difference in sound quality...

Just, take those amps apart if you can, and check it out, its like, when i take my computer apart, and look at all the capicitors on it, and all those other cool little electronic thingy's, dont they make you feel squishy inside, compared to this gateway box that i took apart and was nothing but a green board with nothing on it? *sigh*

you get what you pay for, if you want cheap sound, buy cheap sound, but when you buy this stuff, and you go to listen to it, and it could have been that much better by going the extra $10 or whatever...

Ive had people tell me im lieing about how many watts im pushing, because my 200 watt fosgate XLC's sounded better than their 1000 watt xplods, etc, etc...plus i mean, come on, better built hardware, longer lasting, back to that jensen amp, it would overheat in like 20-30 minutes on a hot summer day, and that was even in the trunk of a topaz! my pioneer and fosgate amps spent all DAY being baked to hell and back in my hatch of my camaro(keep in mind, right in the hatch on the hump, in direct sunlight, and RF's stuff is black, and THEY NEVER overheated once, and i put about 20-25,xxx miles on a car a year, so thats like driving for 5-6 hours a day, cruising, blowing my brains out...

that simple fact is, dont take shortcuts, and listen to Jim, i dont know him personally, but he knows his stuff, all these other guys on here, they just got something, liked it, never tried anything else, and thats the end of it, to tell you the truth, i was happy with that 500 watt(maybe 50 watt) jensen amp, until you hear better, and that you almost feel ripped off, because if you woulda spend those few extra dollars, you could have gotten what you DESERVED...

enough rambling, i hate making long posts, because i cant ever get the point across in an orderly fashion, but im done now...

Jim 0wnZ :hail:

KlayBuRn

Out of that list, id go pioneer, fosgate, kicker...

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

That link isn't showing the choices you selected.

Anyway... I've got a bunch of amps that I'm currently using in one car or another. In my IROC I've got the Kicker ZR series amps. In the GTA I was running a Rockford punch amp for my subs. Right now that amp is pushing the subs in my Jimmy, and I have a 4 channel pioneer pushing the highs. The pioneer used to run my whole system in the Sport Coupe.

Anyway... the Pioneer was about $250. It's rated at 4x30. It replaced a 4x50 Jensen that cost just as much. The pioneer blew it out of the water. It sounds better and plays louder. But... it's still got NOWHERE near enough power to push a single 10" sub.

The Rockford is a 360a2, which sells for somewhere around $350. It's pushing a pair of 10" rockfords and it gets pretty loud. This is probably too much amp for a single 10". In my IROC I've got way too much power for any practical purpose. It'll knock your house down. But... I've got a ZR240 pushing my highs. That amp is a powerhouse too. I've seen some cars get VERY loud with that amp pushing subs. A ZR120 is even enough to push a single sub and get real loud.

What bugs me is that as the cheap crap gets more popular, it seems that the good brands are beginning to cheapen their products to compete. The new smaller KX kicker amps are no longer stable down to 1 ohm like the ZR stuff was. But now they come in pretty colors. I have no idea how the new KX line performs, but I would guess that they should still perform quite well.

My favorite amps are Kicker. Rockford amps are a close 2nd. The pioneer and alpine stuff more or less gets lumped into the "also ran" category. Below that is the junk like Legacy, pyramid, profile, boss, etc.

9177

I've been pretty happy with my Alpine and MTX amps im running. Watch places like crutfield around now. I think thiis is the time of year the have product close outs to make way new models and you can get good stuff at a lower price with warranty

89IRO

Alright, I've narrowed it down to 5 different amps. First off the Kickers, KX150.2 ($180) and KX200.2 ($250). Then there is the Kenwood KAC-729S ($200) which is rated at 100x2 RMS while the above Kicker ($250) is rated at 50x2 RMS. Now why would I pay $50 more for the kicker when I get a lot more power out of the Kenwood? This is what I am finding with a lot of these, some have less power, at a higher price, while others have more power, at a lower price. I'm confused here, does the price just show the quality of the amp or what? So more power doesn't always mean better? So should I go with the KX200.2 kicker? Then there is also the bazooka EL2100 and Rockford Fosgate Punch 300S. So I've narrowed it down to these 5 amps, all pretty much in the same price range. Base that on dual 10" subs, and out of these, what is the best amp for my application? -89IRO

89IRO

I forgot to ask the question of if I am going to have any problems with my charging system by doing the amp/sub(s). If I am going to need a new alternator/battery I am going to just forget about it right here and now. -89IRO

KlayBuRn

Your not doing insane amounts of power, you dont need none of that...

ontogenesis

I've got a pair of 12" kicker impulses and a 1000w pyramid amp pushed by a fosgate deck.The pyramid has it's downsides, and everyone claims it's a crappy amp...and company, but i paid $80 for it off ebay, it's worth it, i know it's not in the same league as fosgate or kicker. He's not listening to mozart and trying to pick out notes of certain instruments, and he's not entering db drags. For his application, and alot of others, i don't see why he shouldn't get an 80 dollar amp. it's like givin him a rail car with a stroked 454 when he really only needs a geo metro...there's no point.

junkyarddog

I don't know about these days, but Alpine definitly makes some good amps. I bought an Alpine V12 75w x 2/150w x 1 amp...'98 year I think. that was a great amp for the money, it was $225 with the warranty and all of that, I would have put that up against any profile or whatever. I'm not saying that profile is a bad amp, I've never seen them burn out or any of the horror stories come true with them. it's just that there is no reason to buy low end when you can get an affordable setup with enough power to do the job. 1200w of real RMS power into a sub is fairly ridiculous for most people.

I once compared the circuitry of my Alpine 75 x 2 to the inside of a Kenwood 600w amp.......the kenwood had nothing in there that sized up to the smallest capacitor,transistor or inducter on the Alpine board.....quite a joke.....600 watts my eye!

brands I would avoid: Sony,Kenwood,some Pioneer (price/watts too good to be true) Jensen,

you can't go wrong with: Alpine,JL,infinity,rockford fosgate,clarion,JBL there are many more, but I can't remember.

last but not least: I would consider losing those Blaupunct speakers! last time I bought a pair of Blaupunct, I returned them because I just couldn't get the sound to come to life. I vowed to never again put anything Blaupunct in my car again, and I haven't. not to mention they were a $120 pair of 6x9" wich sounded like absolute garbage...no exaggeration.

89IRO

I don't see what's wrong with blaupaunk speakers. I have 4x6s in the front and 6x9s in the back of my camaro, along with a pioneer HU. I think it sounds great! I just want a little more out of my system so that's why I am looking into amp/sub(s)- that's why they make the things right? And just last week my mom got a clarion HU and 6 blaupaunk speakers installed in her toyota 4runner- now lemme tell you, that sound bad ***. I am kind of jealouse of her system because it sounds better than mine because 1) the acoustics or whatever are a lot better than in my camaro 2) my HU was $150 and hers was like $300 and 3) she has 6 speakers and I have 4. Also, my buddy just got blaupaunks in his tacoma, HUGE sound improvement! Maybe you just had a bad setup, but I don't have anything against those speakers. -89IRO

89IRO

what does "THD at Rated RMS Power" mean? Is the lower the percentage for the better, or the worst? -89IRO

89IRO

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S...F135DB&o=m&a=0

Go to the above link. This package looks really appealing to me! Take a look. -89IRO

89transam

Just a quick search yeilded me this stuff

Amps

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1947000366

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1946433093 (I used to have this amp hooked up to 2 crossfire 10's It sounded very nice)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1946326364

Subs

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1947027716

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1946539191



Combos

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1945915321

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

The kicker will produce more power than the kenwood, regardless of what they are rated at. This is the biggest hurdle for most people to accept when making the jump from cheap crap, to medocre, or from medocre to good stuff. Power ratings mean very little.

For one, most amps are rated into a purely resistive load. speakers are not resistive. They're what's called reactive. They have an inductive element that causes circuitry to react very differently than a pure resistor. The Kenwood amp is likely to produce substantially less power when driving a speaker vs. driving a resistive load. A better amp, will produce as much or MORE power into a reactive load than resistive.

Plus, amps like kicker and rockford tend to be under rated, especially when low impedances are taken into account. My ZR240 was "rated" at 60 watts per channel. It is capable of well over 500 watts bridged into a 2 ohm load, and it'll do it all day long.

The kenwood amp is a good enough amp that I'm sure you'll be happy with it, but it is not of the same caliber of the Kicker.

Justins86bird

I too have notice what Jim is saying. What has happened to decks has happened to amps too. Flashy, colorful and not much else.

89IRO

Can someone answer my above question about the "THD" rating? And after taking measurments in my trunk, I've concluded that the package that the link was about won't fit by far! So I think really my only choice as far as sub(s), is a single 10" (no larger) in the "tube." It doesn't seem like any of those boxes will fit. Will the "tube" sub sound just as good as one in a box? I think I am going toward a rockford fosgate amp/sub package. I've asked this already but I don't think anybody has answered- will my 45x4 watt Pioneer HU be able to handle the amp/sub or does it have nothing to do with them? Because it is basically brand new and I don't feel like spending $280 on one of those really nice 50x4 pioneers. Trust me, if I had known then that I wanted to do an amp/sub, I would have gotten that nicer pioneer HU. -89IRO

Gumby

Course a good headunit is a must, that LA890 would suck if I had a kmart head unit. [ mine: pioneer DEH-P4000 ]

That amp has enough new technology that its reasonable clean and only using sub channel outs on it, makes for a clean cheap sound thats more than loud enough. and I really get a kick out of the remote bass boost.

I got a set of pioneer 100watt 6x9s in the front dash [barley fit], set of 150watt power acoustic 6x9s in the rear side pannels, both sets on the head unit.

set of 500watt sound storm labs 6x9s inverted in a box on half the amp [low pass], and a single 12 [name escapes me] 300watt rms bridged on the other half.

Also all I play are mp3s so, crystal clear sound is or would be impossiable.

---------


and yea, dont you like how a cheap *** computer speaker set is like 30 watts but it will rock and hit like a searious car system.

****, most home stereos barley get over 100 watts.

spike1856

Well, the way the amp/sub interacts with the head unit is through an RCA-out on the back of the HU. What this gives is a pure audio signal, and you run it to the amp. The amp then amplifies it, and sends the amplified signal to the subwoofer. No matter how strong your amp/subs are, the HU will still just be sending that pure audio signal, you won't be drawing anything more or less out of it. Any amp/sub will be perfectly fine with the HU...

White Ninja

man, i really hate to see all this bashing of Profile... i agree that the California series is crap, but when you talk about the Clarus....i just don't agree at all. I've had many good experiences with my Profile Clarus CL800 and it's the amp i'm using to power my Focal comps in the near future. In my old IROC it was powering my 2-10" Xtants and when it was about 30 feet from the house at around 3/4 volume it rattled some of my mom's window ornaments clean off. I just dissagree 100% when people put Profile in the garbage catagory.....just pisses me off.... and that's my .02

- Andy

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

THD = total harmonic distortion. This is important because amplifiers operate in a very linear range up to a certain power level, then all of a sudden the distortion skyrockets. A few years ago a lot of the cheap brands would rate their power at ridiculous THD levels to make it look like the amp was more powerful than it is. Now that some people pay attention to this spec, most cheap amp brands have found different ways to pad their numbers.

Will a tube sound just as good as a box? No. Will it be close? Yeah. Tubes tend to be made of thin wood, or in many cases, thick paper-board. But... because of the uniform shape of a tube, combined with the inherent strength of circular objects, it doesn't necessarily need to be made of 3/4" MDF like a normal box. For real high power applications, a tube probably isn't the way to go, but for any normal type of install, it's a great solution. A 10" tube fits into the well and can sound very good. Just make sure you know what volume the tube has, and you take that into consideration when choosing subwoofers.

Your head unit really has nothing to do with your amp/sub combo. Every head unit on the planet made within the last few years has RCA outputs, which is what you need to hook up an amp properly. It's pretty much a non-issue.

Gumby

???

not ever headunit come with sub outs, they may have rca outs but not sub outs.



lots of HU have rear rca out, [I wouldnt use them] but not many have sub outs.

Two very different things. rca outs and sub outs are not the same.

89IRO

Alright guys, it's been a while since we've argued but here we go again. I think I've found the only thing that will work for me. It is the Bazooka 8" sub in the "tube." The amp is built into it. I understand that it isn't the best sound out there but for my application, it the only thing that fits, is in my dollar range, and I think will fit my needs. I am going to post a link to it on my next post. Check out the specs. and stuff and tell me what you guys think. If anybody has experience with this product can you let me know of the quality of it and if you like/dislike it and tell me your reasons. Thanks! -89IRO

89IRO

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S...EL8AHP&o=m&a=0

Alright, there's the link, check it out.

9177

Whats the diff in RCA outputs and sub outputs? ither than the bells and whisltes (which alot of amps have) there is nothing wrong with using RCA outputs vs "sub outputs"

mudaholic

the only difference is that subwoofer outs are non-fading... as long as you dont mess with your fader you can use your rear channel output to drive subwoofers just fine

89transam

If you are going to buy this 89IRO .....buy it here and save yourself $100. (no not from me) (click link)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1947898819

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

You don't need sub outs. Any set of RCAs will be just fine. Almost every amp available has a built-in crossover, so a full range RCA output will work just as well.

I'm not using the sub-out on any of my decks (and they all have it). I just use a single pair of RCA pre-outs and let my amps handle the crossover function.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Listen to one before you buy it. They sound like sh*t and don't get loud. You can build your own setup for the same cash and be much better off.

86NiteRider

iTrader: (10)

You may be right but my Kenwood amp(see sig) plays just fine. Sounds smooth but if I need it to get loud it can do that too. In the end it all comes down to sound and price. What sounds good for the amount of money you can afford.

89IRO

Opinions regarding me getting the bazooka "tube" amp/sub? Look at my previous two posts. -89IRO

89transam

If you had your heart set on a self contained unit I would check out this thing,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=1947614480

Its from Infinity and I have read some good reviews on it, plus typically Infinity makes better stuff than bazooka....

Also its a bigger speaker (than the bazooka)

89IRO

Jees that infinity unit does look nice. The only way it will work for me though is if it will fit in my tiny trunk. Can anyone give me the dimensions on it? And I'm not big on buying stuff off of ebay so what should I expect to pay for that in a store? -89IRO

9177

here is some info for you

89transam

I bet its about $399 like at crutchfeild. Ebay is totally safe, espically from a seller with a feedbak of a couple thousand. If you do buy it you should definatly go with ebay, why spend the extra $150 for the same thing