ddn69

hey guys. Im looking to get some new subs. Im selling my sony stuff and looking for something else I wont have to add much. Im getting 400.00 for what im selling. I can put a little more into my next stereo maybe an extra 100 or so. So for 500.00 what you guys think I should go for. My friends were suggesting either alpine type-rs or 2 bazooka tubes. both are about 300 RMS. I was looking at phoenix golds online and theyre like around 500 RMS for around same price. WHat you guys think I should get. Im open to different brands too. And what kinda amp would you guys suggest. I might match up the amp-subs but its not a must.

So bottom line best bang for my buck for 500.00 including the 75.00 box at my local store...

nate

super_kev

iTrader: (4)

First off, I don't know what you like... loud crazy bass that will make you deaf later on down the road, or sound quality, or both. My setup is as follows... two Polk GNX104's (10" 4 ohm subs) and a U.S. Accoustics USX600D amp. I haven't installed it yet (some other important things have to be done to the car first) but a friend of mine has the same subs with a USX amp and they sound great. You can't go wrong with Polk. Cost me about $130 with the buy one get one free deal going on at Crutchfield last year. The USX amp I bought from thezeb.com, and it was under or around $200 if I remember correctly. The amp is a good amp and handles a modest 375W x 1 @ 2 ohms. I'm not a hard loud all-bass-only guy, so this will suit me just fine. However it will really bump if you want it to.

If you aren't sure what you want, just head down to Best Buy or a local car audio shop and go to their speaker section and hit all the demo buttons to see which sub(s) you like the best. Ask questions, etc. Everyone's taste is different.

ddn69

well best buy deals with rockford and sony the brands im trying to get away from. Circuit city has a few good brands but Im not gonna bother. Ill just take some opinions. Ill prolly end up going with the alpines or phoenixes.

Oh and Im not going towards crazy bass. Hence why Im selling 12s and getting 10s. I want more punchy clean bass

Nate

super_kev

iTrader: (4)

Yeah I'll agree with you there, although I've heard RF is pretty good. Go up and browse thezeb.com and onlinecarstereo.com. You can find good deals on there for current and recently discontinued stuff, and I've ordered from both places before and they have great service.

So if you want recommendations, go ahead and look at a set of these Alpine Type S's and this Alpine amp. The subs are 50-200 rms and the amp is rated at 375 rms x 1 @ 2 ohms, so that should drive the subs if they were wired in series (series? I've forgotten which drops the resistance, but I think it's series...) and all for under $400.

ddn69

Im not sure which is better Type-R or Type-S but Ill be ordering off ebay since thats prolly the cheapest place to look. I also dont want to run series. Im gonna be getting a two channel amp. Preferably around 200 rms each channel.

Im basically looking for a comparison between phoenix gold and alpine type-rs or either one vs another respectable brand. Ive heard alot of good stuff about the phoenixes and havent read too much about the Rs.

please someone else add some input.

Nate

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Subs: Adire, Resonant Engineering, Image Dynamics

Amp: Almost any inexpensive class D will do. The JBL comes to mind.

ddn69

any reviews on the bazooka tubes with 200 watts rms. I heard tubes are crap. I was thinking about 2 10" ones. 500max/200 rms...Ill prolly end up leaning toward alpine type-rs or the phoenix golds. If you guys can give me some references to look at other brands youve mentioned then feel free. But ebay type-rs and phoenixes seem to be the cheapest/best way to go. Im not interested in buying at CC or Best buy this time or even crutchfield.

nate

subzero

If you can get Phoenix gold subs in the same price range (DEFINATELY) get those.Phoenix has always had high quality stuff and they are a company who really stands behind their products.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

The phoenix subs are definately good subs, but I'd never place them above RE, Adire, or ID within the same price range. I'd definately put them WAY ahead of Bazooka tho.

ddn69

i looked at some of the subs youve mentioned and alot of them are like 250.00 each with very minimal stuff on ebay. At least with phoenixes and alpines I can get some cheap stuff online.

As far as 900rms/pair goes does that mean 450rms per sub and 225 per coil? If so what would be a good amp to buy that would work well. Are boss amps and california profile amps any good. Theyre kinda cheap in price with some decent RMS ratings. Im not looking to spend more then 150.00 200.00 most on an amp. Ill prolly spend around 150-250 on the subs depending on what Ill get.

Nate

ljnowell

I built a system for 300 dollars one time that would rock with the expensive ones. Jensen 400w 4 channel amp, jensen xs1010 subs(x2), jensen 6x9's, and jensen 4" rounds. Yes, I know, jensen is cheap. I went to college with a guy who was a professional installer, i didnt let him see the stuff, just had him sit down and listen. When i uncovered it all, he freaked. Since then he has installeda LOT of jensen equipment.

ddn69

hahaha jensen Ive had two POS jensen 100.00 decks break on me. Jensen is horrible.

nate

FyreLance

Get a SINGLE Alpine Type-R 10 or 12 (can be had for $100), and a Class D amp like a JBL1200.1 ($250) and that's only $350, and will sound better/louder/deeper than what you have now, I guarantee it. Adire Shiva would be a nice sub to look at as well. Nothing wrong with single sub.

ljnowell

Yeah I knew someone would post some crap like that. I have never owned a jensen head unit, just subs and amp. As a matter of fact I bought them in 2001, sold them in 2003 and the kid that I sold them too still uses them. And they still sound good.

junkyarddog

I have seen Profile Califronia series perform well, but I felt the money spent on that amp ($175) could have been spent towards something better.

Jensen...? well, lucky break I guess.

It's funny that you mention the difference between 10"s and 12"s because I found an article stating that the inductance of the coil matters more than everything else put together. I always thought it was the amp, but after reading this, it makes perfect sense. I'll post the link if I can find it. I think it was from Adire Audio.

ljnowell

Not a lucky break at all. I have seen a lot of these subs in people cars recently, and they sound good. They are durable too. Im not sayign they are gonna out perform a 100 dollar sub, but they are pretty good.

redbird_400

You will get endless replies of good comments made on the alpine type Rs, I have yet to hear someone say they dont like them. Everyone seems suprised on what they put out for at the lowest 109.00 each for a 12" I think it was. These will be the next subs that I'll try.

chio987

Here's something to read i'm going with an EA sub, i've heard they r very good SQ but i might go with and RE too, idunno yet. elemental design but it looks like they got rid of thier A series and they were the better ones

ddn69

Ill prolly end up getting an alpine or two since my head unit and front speakers are also alpine. On ebay I can get 1 for 80.00 or 2 for 160.00 compared to Circuit citys 200.00 each I wanna get an alpine amp but they are rather expensive.

I noticed the suggestion of a single JBL amp for one sub. Does that mean I should get 2 amps for 2 subs? How much will 2 amps cost me for 2 alpine type-rs, and what will be the sound difference between 2 10s and 1 10? I really want better sounding bass something a little more clean and punchy while still being able to hit the low pounds for rap I listen to along with the fast beats of techno and double bass of death metal.

Is the alot of airspace required for these alpines?

nate

ddn69

well if the dvc alpines are 150 a coil wouldnt the jbl1200.1 be a bit much for it? it says 1200.1 puts 600 rmsx1. Ill keep looking around at amps though.

my bad u prolly meant something like this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

with one sub I would run each channel to each voice coil and have the 4 ohm load? Is that correct. then it would be right around the RMS of each coil 150 correct? Im really unclear on how ohms work and all.

Nate

FyreLance

No, you do not need more than one amp.

That depends on your amp, your installation, your wiring, etc.

Nope. 1 cubic foot is the MAXIMUM reccomended volume for a sealed enclosure. I had mine in a little over a cubic foot.

No. The power handling on these subs are 300W rms / 1000W peak. I had a 1000W amp, a 1200.1 would be a perfect match. (Remember, the 1200 is peak too.)

If you get a Class D amp like the JBL1200.1 [which is a single channel "mono block" amp specifically for bass] wiring up the coils in parallel will give you a 2 ohm load. You wire the coils together and then wire from there to the amp.

ddn69

well Im prolly gonna end up getting 2 alpine 10s with a 2 channel JBL 1200.1 its like 210.00 on ebay +shipping. something double that retail value. Its also still sealed in the box and I believe with a 1-2 year warranty or something.

As for my wiring ive got 4 gage going basically until the trunk then 8 gage into the connection. Normal rcas nothing fancy. I dont remember the gage on the speaker wire but i think it could be 16? I think..Ive got a pretty good battery (900 CCA i think)and a 120.00 dollar alternator unsure of the alt. power. No caps or anything special. Im gonna be looking for a box as soon as I sell my firebird one. Ill prolly end up buying one from a local store.

Ummm also I got a fairly good head unit. alpine with mp3/F/R/S preouts 4 V I think.

Im a little more familiar with the ohm load im gonna be using.(2 channels, 4 ohm subs wiring coil to coil on each sub and going to each channel then I guess it turns it to 2 ohm which the 1200.1 JBL im gonna be getting is exactly what I need. 300RMSx2. 150Per coil matched exactly.)

Ive still got another month or so to decide and sell everything and save up so I got some time to d*ck around with ideas.

Nate

nate

FyreLance

There's no such thing as a JBL 1200.1 2 channel amp. It's a 1 channel amp, hence the ".1"

ddn69

well then 1200.2 whatever. Either way Im pretty decided I want 2 10s and the 1200x2. It will be the perfect RMS match for each sub at 2 ohms so itll be perfect.

Nate

FyreLance

Dude, you're really not understanding what I'm saying.

1200.2 would be a 2400 watt amp (1200 by 2 channels), and JBL does not have a 1200.2. There is no point in having a 2 channel amp for bass! You can still have two subs on a 1 channel amp. All Class D amps are 1 channel. What you want is a 1200 watt, 1 channel amp.

FyreLance

Sorry, let me rephrase, almost all Class D amps are 1 channel.

ddn69

1 channel leaves me less wiring options and the point of 2 channels is for sepperate speakers.(subs) If the amp that Im getting says 300x2 RMS that is PERFECT for my alpine type-rs. So Im sorry for whatever I called it Im not perfect. But saying that Im not getting your point and I should get a 1 channel amp made for a single sub for 2 subs is closed minded. Im sure theres a point to saying 600x1 RMS.

Nate

ddn69

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...720242851&rd=1

1200-1 seems WAY too powerful for the type-rs. The type-rs are only 150 RMS per coil thats 600 for the pair. If I was to buy a 1200-1 and run it at 2 ohms it would send like what 600 to each sub? I know the alpines could probably take this but Im not gonna go over the reccomended power.

The amp I linked to before seemed like the perfect match. I can wire it for 2 ohms and be running the exact RMS. Im really not sure how to wire a 1channel amp to several subs anyway. I just doesnt seem safe or the right reccomended thing to do.

I think Jim85 should add to this. The way your trying to explain it to me just isnt helping. I just get the feeling your telling me Im an idiot by making number mistakes and ideas on channels. Jim would be able to explain it better to me I think.

Nate

ddn69

kinda like this? it would produce a 2ohm load?

if 1 channel is better why is the 1000 watt 2 channel amps?

Nate

FyreLance

... I've never called you an idiot or anything of the sort.... I was just trying to help. I'll just stay out and let Jim explain it since apparently I'm closed minded and wasn't running the exact setup we're talking about.

ScrapMaker

Go to a pawn shop and get some nice subs for cheap...

my friend picked up two Kicker COMPVR 15's, in a a respectably-sized box, for $200..

get a $300 amp (4, or 1 channel)... depends on if you plan on running more than just subs off the amp... but you can always find killer deals on used stuff... because it doesn't really matter if its used... it either works, or it doesn't... there are rare circumstances where something has been "repaired" and can break or not operate properly... but luckily most pawn shops will give you some sort of warranty... after all, they even check out the stuff before they buy it themselves, so that's another thing to consider.

ddn69

Fyre. Its just that your post about there being no such thing of a 1200.2 and "dude your not understanding" seemed a bit sarcastic. Maybe I took it the wrong way. Sorry.

Im just a little new to how ohms work, channels work, etc. Im pretty sure that the picture I drew would do exactly what I need. 2 ohms. I appreciate that you tried to tell me that 1 channel amps are better for subs and that alpines are good but you didnt really explain much about why monoblock 1 channels are better then 2 channels and such.

Nate

ddn69

Ill be buying closed box on ebay its really just as cheap, still in the box, and has manufacturers warrantys. Besides I doubt Ill find specificly what I want in a pawn shop without some sort of unforseen problem with it.

thanks for the idea though.

Nate

ScrapMaker

yeah I just thought I'd through the idea out so other people realize that amps usually work, or don't work... aside from connector problems, and turning off from overheating.... you can tell whether an amp is in good condition within hours of messing with it... maybe less... I just know so many people that would never buy used stuff (I wouldn't normally buy from a pawn shop, because they always try to rip you off)... but I mean on ebay or wherever... because they think that used stuff is crap... man this car audio stuff lasts forever! I have a 10" orion xtr that's been in over 8 different vehicles, over a 6-year period... still pounding strong, and its PAPER!! wow...

just a thought, but good luck on your purchase

ddn69

I dont think its that it wont work or its crap. Its more that its not under warranty anymore and If it does break your screwed. At least new in the box isnt much more and you can know that your not gonna be having problems with the stuff.

Nate

SS-84

After checking out that pic of the sub wiring, I found this link for you. http://www.jlaudio.com/tutorials/wiring/index.html
What you posted would present a 1 ohm load using 4ohm DVC

Also notice how many subs can be hooked up to a "1" channel amp.

ddn69

it looks like really the only one that I should do that will give me the 2 ohm load is 2 ohm subs. This has been MORE then helpful man. I really do appreciate it and will use it in the future. This is really what Ive been looking for to answer some of my questions.

Im still wondering why 1 channel is better then 2...

Nate

TomP

There's no point to having two channels for bass. You don't get stereo out of bass; it's mono. Get two single-coil 10" subs, wire them in parallel, and hook 'em up to a 1 channel amp that's 2 ohm stable; done deal.

ScrapMaker

if you get a good headunit, and a good amp... usually the headunit has dual rca outputs for bass... but they are dual mono outputs... and a good amp will mix a stereo input rca as well...

ddn69

ya ive looked at the pictures on JLaudio site. Im rethinking about getting apline and looking into Phoenix again. I might get the titanium2003 series. Jbl makes some single coil subs but not much on ebay.

Nate

ddn69

how would a 1200.1 JBL amp push the 500watt rms single coil PGs? It would seem pretty good. I was thinking about PG amp but the 800.1 isnt rated for that at RMS where the JBL amps are very impressive wise on RMS.

nate

OldOneEye

A few thigns. You might get a warranty, but not the full warranty on Ebay (i.e. what you would get buying it over the counter, for some stuff, they buy it from a middle man, then you buy it from them.. it breaks, and it has to go to them, then the middle man (again, to try to hide where the stuff is coming from).

A Class D monoblock is designed for bass, just by its nature. Anytime you find a 2 channel D class, its probably 2 amps sharing a chassis.

The real reason you want to run a Class D is that they are more efficient (turn more of the power into output and less into heat), they are cheaper (dollar per watt) and they are smaller (less heat means a smaller heatsink).

So if you want to pay more for less power and a bigger amp, that is really up to you. You should be able to find the sub you want in enough choices (Single Voice Coil, Dual Voice Coil, or two different versions of DVC is usually how it work) to make wiring it up to any monoblock no sweat (you don't want to buy an amp that puts out 200 x 1 at 4 ohms and 400 x 1 at 2 ohms and 800 x 1 at 1 ohm and not wire it up at 1 ohm. Like having a motor that revs to 9000 RPM and having a 5000 Rev limiter).

A few places price match (and I work for one of them, but that isn't my intent to recommend retailers, just the right product for the right application).

Using Rockford as an example:

T8002 $699, measures 23 x 3 x 13, 800 watts at its highest rating

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-hC97fOw...fosgate&wmsf=1

The T10001BD is the same price $699, measures 18 x 3 x 13, 1000 watts at its maximum rating.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-hC97fOw...fosgate&wmsf=1

So you get an amp that has 25% more power, is about 25% smaller, for the same price. They both are rated for the same sized fuse as well, so you are pretty much getting free power. For the most part these numbers hold up for many other manufacturers.

Juan

NEEDAZ

FYI If it's not sold by an authorized dealer then the manufacture considers it a "counterfeit" unit and NO warranty applies. Now most manufactures will still stand behind the unit, BUT if you don't have a "GOOD" proof of purchase they don't have to.

ddn69

ya im mainly looking at JBL amps that do like 1200.1 at 2 ohms. Im not bothering with 1 ohm stable amps cause I heard that 1 ohm stable doesnt mean it wont be bad for the amp over time? Anyway Ill prolly end up going with JBL mono block and 2 4 ohm PG titaniums wired for 2 ohms.

As for the warranty it probably wont break anyway. Ive had my sonys for over a year and theyre still pounding strong.

Nate

OldOneEye

In practice, unless the serial numbers are removed, most big brands honor the warranty.

Juan

OldOneEye

It depends on the design. Amps that put out maximum power at 1 ohm (and are designed to do so) are not anything to worry about as far as reliability. Some people decide to take amps designed for 2 ohm operation and push them at 1 ohm, and that is where you have problems. If the manufacturer says its cool at 1 ohm, don't worry.


Just an FYI, JBL is one who tracks serial numbers (so the stuff being sold unauthorized doesn't have any) so keep that in mind that if it breaks, they will not take it back. Find a place that price matches and is authorized (there is 1 that I know of) and get the warranty too.
Juan

ddn69

well if you guys can find me a amp behid a reputable name for like around 300. I need like 1000x1 RMS. Ill prolly go ebay JBL warranty or not.

Nate

ScrapMaker

the only way you are going to find a good amp that outputs 1000rms is ebay bro... cuz even the memphis 1000d retails at 500, and the 1500d at $1000

for $1000 you could go with a 3,000 watt RMS amp from autotek... X-Class stuff is pretty cool... dual d class

ddn69

ya it pretty much looks like Ill be stuck with a manufactures warranty(might not even have that if u guys are right.) on ebay. Ebay is really cheap. JBL is a good brand too so I shouldnt have any problems.

Nate

OldOneEye

I would say price match something similar to this:

http://www.smilephotovideo.com/detai...itemno=IN1210A

Here's a hint, they are the guys who host quite a few people's signatures here as well as member pages.

Juan