rockstar08

I'm in the process of building a touchscreen 'infotainment' system for my IROC, the final build will incorporate a touchscreen where the heater controls are currently located. Either i will change the controls for servos and relays or relocate them, i'm undecided yet.

Some specs,

7-8" Touchscreen
AVI Movie / MP3 Digital Music Player
Garmin Navigation
500GB Music and Video
Handsfree Bluetooth Calling
Laptime Recorder
Front and Rear Cameras with video recording capability
Internet Access
ALDL Recording and Playback, and tuning.

Anyway heres a video of the initial build, more to come..
Recommendations and comments appreciated..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d6QI2SDirM

F A T B O Y

Neat - no doubt about it. I want to do something like this with my next build. Wonder if they make 4g carputers? haha.

Not sure if it's an appropriate question to ask, but how much does something like this run?

_87TA_

Nice I plan on doing something very similar.
Nice vid especially b/c it gives links to other videos.
Good luck with everything, can't wait to see final install.

rockstar08

Its do able for around $500, if you don't count blood sweat and tears!

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

prices definitely have come down in the last few years and so has size. i started playing around when the miniITX form factor came out, but the first few versions weren't very video friendly. I think the biggest cost back then was the screen, at least if you wanted something decent. since I can't view video at work, what did you end up going with for a motherboard?

-srs-

Definately subscribed to this thread. As a former car audio installer and now a Systems Admin this kind of project is too much to resist!

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Not much extra space in these cars to hid things. It'll be interesting to watch the build.

Timinsk

iTrader: (9)

subscribed. I have a few ideas for myself of what to do but i'd like to see what you do.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

Just a couple things. First I'd ditch Vista for Windows 7. The media center/player in Windows 7 can play almost anything excluding Blu-Ray without additional codecs or software. That's really helpful down the line as various media types can be problematic if multiple software packages and codecs are used. It also has a smaller foot print in memory and runs better on less RAM and with less processor power than Vista does. That will be most helpful given the relatively low power of the system you are using.

I'd also pony up the cash for a solid state hard disk. Mechanical hard drives do not like to be accessed while in moving cars. These cars have relatively stiff suspension and will jar the crap out of the drive constantly. Some people get lucky and do OK with such a configuration and others end up replacing the drives frequently. An SSD will also generate less heat. In the confines of a car PC heat is the enemy more so than it is even in larger form factor PC's.

liquidh8

I have a build started for my wagon, liliput screen, atom board/cpu, 2 gig mem, power supply, yadda yadda. Subscribed to you thread. keep us informed of progress. right now running centrafuse 2

rockstar08

I decided to use Vista as i have had an allumni license floating around. Ensuring the right codec was as simple as getting an codec pack installed. I might try Windows 7 in at some point to see if the UI is a little smoother. But first i'm going to strip Vista down to bare bones.

Personally I am not a fan of any of Microsoft's desktop products, but most of the development has already been carried out on Win OS, and as such it suits my needs without reinventing the wheel. I'm actually quite impressed with how stable Vista is with SP3 though.

Also SSD's are cool, but capacity wise unpracticle, and costly. That technology has to mature a little for me first, I want to see bigger disks and lower costs, but may be someday.

Heat is the big problem, technically the hardware is rated to about 145 deg F or so, the MB has an Atom embedded processor (max temp 185 Deg F), i've tested it up to a 95 deg F environment, and its stable, but temps will go well above that when its in the car! At least here in AZ! The case has two fans and one cpu fan, its made from aluminum with heatsink fins, its cold to the touch always!

The motherboard has 4GB of memory, on a 32 bit OS this is the max addressable, use of 64bit OS is unpracticle due to the number of 3rd party device drivers without support. This should be more than enough for my needs.

Over the past week I have made some great progress... Features list so far..

Centrafuse 3 installed and tested. ( Vista needs to be updated _before_ installing! )
ALL Music and AVI Videos imported and tested
Navigation, weather, TunerPRO RT all installed and tested ( ALDL live data is one of my favs! )
VM70 8" touchscreen bench tested, ( nice little device, very happy with it )
http://www.short-circuit.com/product/vm70.html
Hibernate and resume from ignition tested, takes 45 secs! (might be able to get this down more with some little tricks) this was my biggest concern, without it it would be junk in my opinion, but it works very well and repeatedly!
Power consumption averaged 2 Amps
Soak tested for 48 hours continuos operation successfully
Temperature soak tested to 95 Deg F
Video Cam recording and playback
HULU Internet TV tested
Track Times app installed
Wireless media sync configured and tested, upon discovery of my home wifi net it automatically syncs new media! ( one of my fav features! )
Bluetooth iPhone pairing and voice incoming/outgoing calls tested
Windows auto update configured and tested.
Speech recognition learning and testing completed

Still to do..

XM/Sirius/HD radio
AM/FM radio ( Yes I still listen to it! )
Internet Radio
Automatic Sync of contacts
Embed Skype for video calls ( long term list )

I'm also rebuilding my 350tpi engine right now so progress is slow, but moving along! Just primed the oil pump today, will let it soak for a while and check for leaks before installing. I plan to get it in the car in the next 4 weeks or so..

My plan is to fabricate a piece of plastic/fiberglass fascia to replace the radio/ac controls. I'd like to find some textured plastic, that looks as oem as can be. If anyone knows where this can be found please let me know!

Hardware List..
Voom2 Case
Zotac IONITX 1.6Ghz Dual Core -E-G Motherboard with Wifi module
4GB DDR2
500gb 2.5inch seagate rugged harddisk
Generic Bluetooth Dongle
VM70 Touchscreen monitor with headrest bezel
M2 150W DC-DC PSU
Switches and 14 gauge wire
Home made ALDL cable (max232 design)

Software List..
Centrafuse 3
Applauncher
HULU, Track Times, Plugins
TunerPro RT
Vista Ultimate

liquidh8

Awesome progress!! I have yet to get my set-up installed in the vehicle. I have some floor pan work to do. But I would love to see a video and some pics of your carpc in action. I know doing this takes some time. I also agree on the resume from hibernation, if it takes forever it is annoying, but even the new factory systems take a bit to get going. Any plans on using the GPS feature in CF3? Does it have it? I have CF2 and was thinking of going to version 3. But I'll wait till I get the pc installed and working first.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

There is some major misinformation here.

In my experience codec packs are often nothing but trouble. You'll get certain file types working with a particular codec pack but other file types will stop working. I've had to go in and replace individual codecs with updated or even older versions that were more stable or just worked better. The best thing to do is keep your installed codec base to a minimum.

As for stripping Vista down to "bare bones" won't net you much. Most "optimizations" tend to impact functionality and create problems that can come back to haunt you later. I'm not saying this is always the case but typically removing many of the processes won't help you much. Vista will consume nearly as many resources either way. Its footprint in memory is larger than other Microsoft OSes. Even stripped down, its still larger than Windows 7's. The Windows 7 UI will run smoother as it tends to run better on the same hardware. Many features that weren't used were removed, there have been improvements in touch screen support, media file type compatibility is outstanding and allows you to avoid most codecs altogether.

Run benchmarks before and after stripping the OS down and you'll find nearly identical results across the board. Even when they gains show up in the benchmarks the difference isn't often pronounced enough to be worth the effort to "optimize it." Some people claim better responsiveness from the OS after shutting down "unnecessary services" but typically the result is psychosomatic at best. Doing the "Pepsi Challenge" between optimized and non-optimized Windows installs typically shows that the difference is negligible at best and non-existent most of the time.

It was actually stable pre-SP1. Hell it wasn't bad even in the beta stages before the release candidates came out.

How is 80GB or larger impractical? My gaming machine has two 80GB Intel X25-M's in RAID 0 and outside of storing large amounts of media (movies, music, ****) its got plenty of space. Even then you can have more than one drive in the machine, so I've got other drives for storage if needed. Again unless you want to dump half a terrabyte or more of movies and **** on your hard drive, 160GB, 256GB etc SSDs are plenty large. Expensive yes, but impractical? Not hardly. As for technology they have matured quite a bit. The drives today are actually faster than mechanical disks in every way. The first generation drives weren't. With TRIM support, SATA 6G support, etc. they are plenty mature. Their failure rates are also quite low though they are higher with Indilinx controller based drives. The firmware issues are also not anywhere near as bad as they were with most of the products being good to go out of the box these days.

This is the part of the post I really had a problem with. Your information is out of date to say the least as this hasn't been the case since Windows XP Professional x64 Edition debuted over 5 years ago. Since the release of Windows Vista, all hardware that has Microsoft Windows certification for Vista or Windows 7 has both 32bit and 64bit compatible device drivers. The ONLY issue with the 64bit operating systems has to due with third part codec support because many codecs are old and haven't had a significant update in several years. This isn't even Microsoft's fault and again with Windows 7 especially, the codec packs aren't needed. If you have another computer (and I'm going to assume that you don't browse the forum on your car PC that you do), then you can convert your files using codecs that aren't compatible with Windows Vista/7 x64 to a file format that does have compatible codecs for a 64bit OS. Unless you have a fetish for some crappy unsupported codecs the whole issue is pretty avoidable with a little fore thought.

The 64bit versions of Windows will allow you to use more than 4GB of memory and even if you don't need it, their task schedulers are more efficient and its not unusual for even 32bit programs to run faster in the 64bit OS despite going through WOW32. (The 32bit emulator built into Windows x64 OSes.) I'm not sure what processor you have and not all Atom processors support EM64T. (Intel's x86-64 / 64bit instruction sets)

spade

iTrader: (3)

why not just install win xp and roadrunner... or some other mobile audio software

clomkfly

pretty awesome build u have ahead! been looking into it off and on when i had my gbody! few concerns though:
1. i would have to fab up a plastic security plate (biometric thumb-print w/ auto starter kill and would be great if i were 007) lol... but seriously, a cover so i looks as if nothing is there when people walk by and peep in your window... even better the faceplate off the original gm radio on a plastic cover?! LOL
2. i would need multiple usb slots... one for a usb 4g device (here in philly - Clear or Comcast..two for a bluetooth dongle - so when parked could get a mini bluetooth keyboard and mouse. if pc in back....run usb cord up to roof and under headliner? maybe!
3..HEAT!?!? where would u mount. would i have to invest in 12volt aux fans?
other than that...im a ace at computers - taking up it at the community soooooo?!
what do you guys think? i would to facebook and drive! LOL joking

hardon85

well that all depends on what you want. First I should admit I was looking at this about 6 months ago so some things probably have changed and I'm sure have probably gotten a little cheaper since then, and if any info I have posted is wrong please correct me as I would still be very interested in doing this but I will point out why I have no plans for it later.

Yes you could do it for $500 but from what I have seen that would still be pretty tough as (and correct me if something has changed) most people use an old laptop and a cheaper screen. But basically what you need is a screen, a pc of some kind (you can use a laptop and they also make carputers which are wired for 12 volts otherwise with a laptop or home pc you have to power it somehow as they need 110 volts so you would need a converter of some kind) a lot of people use cd, dvd or I'm sure Blueray roms now or a usb input (which would make more sense and be easier to hide), also you need an amplifier because the sound cards in the pc are not powerful enough to power any of the speakers also you need some way to interface it or I suppose it would be just like a windows (or whatever OS you have) desktop but if I remember right I think Roadrunner? makes a pretty nice interface for free that anyone can use also I have never looked but I bet linux would have a version out there for touchscreens but I have never heard of anyone using one, you would also need all the wiring which will add up. As you can see it's not a cheap thing to install, as that is just the components.

And what does all this get you? Well really nothing other than being able to put music or movies on a HDD and listen to them in your car or if you did install the cd or dvd rom you could watch or listen that way too. There's no radio, no internet, no GPS with what you would need at the bare minimum. But what can it do? The possibilities are endless, anything that would be possible with your home PC would be possible with a carputer they do have radio adapters, GPS adapters and there are ways to get the internet in your car so you could facebook while you're driving (I just hope you're not driving on the same roads I am). On top of that I have heard of people having real time on board diagnostics that you could watch while driving and possibly adjust certain PCM functions while driving. You could also implement your climate controls and I'm sure even make it automatic climate control (you set the temp and it will constantly keep it there). I also think it would be neat to add a microphone and make everything voice activated kind of like the new Fords have. I'm sure I'm missing a bunch but that's a few things you can do with it.

Now I said that that I had decided against it, for now at least and here is the reasons why; first off is cost I was able to get all of the music on my computer in my car for $350 (or close to it) $250 for an IPOD $80 for a head unit which would control my IPOD and then a harness, a cable and a mounting kit so it was probably more than $350 but I still can listen to the radio, I figured $1500 for a carputer with everything I would want to make it work and I'm sure $2500 would be a lot closer to what you would spend by the time it was all said and done. Second of all is I didn't have to worry about where to mount all of these components as was pointed out there is not a whole lot of places to hide components in 3rd gens. Third reason is when I installed my stereo all I did was wire up the stereo, mount it, run a usb wire for my IPOD and plug everything in and it all worked also my head unit was designed to work in a car and I have no doubt everything will be working in a year or 2, if I were to install all of these components and it doesn't work, where would I start to figure it out? Many of these things haven't been done before so figuring it out could be really tough also if you were using home computer parts which were designed to be in a climate controlled area they were not designed to be baked to over 100 degrees in the winter or frozen to well below 0 in the winter also as was pointed out dealing with the harsh ride that a 3rd gen generally offers. 4th is how many more distractions do we really need while driving? We already have cell phones which have made driving tough enough, with all the extra features that a carputer offers again if you have one of these I hope we don't drive on the same roads. But the final reason I decided not to go with this setup is everytime you start the car up the computer has to boot up which by the time everything loads up I can not imagine would be any less than 1 minute which may not seem like much but depending on how many things are incorporated into this you could really be missing a bunch of features for that time and a minute can be a long time.

In short I will say this, this is a computer guru's dream as the possibilities are endless but for most people this is not your system at least not right now as it is not a plug and play system it does have some flaws right now and it is a very expensive system as a double din navigation unit will do MOST of the things this will but at a fraction of the price. But I will say this in 5-10 years I believe this will be the system to have as there is already a lot of interest in this and there will be a lot of development put into these and they will continue to get easier to use and install and I'm sure they will only get cheaper. One thing I saw on the discovery channel was that in the future years they want to have magnetic ram and with that computers will boot up almost instantly which I would seriously consider it then. But keep those installs coming I love to read about them.

rockstar08

@Hardon85

This is about building a car pc, as the title states, its not about installing a laptop or desktop in a car. This has been done by many in the past, checkout youtube for details/failures on taking this approach. Laptops/desktops are designed to be used in home/office environments and are not designed/built to be installed in a vehicle, why someone woud want to do this, and expect it to work, is beyond me.

The spec is posted at the top of the thread and the build is designed to meet these objectives, and costed accordingly. As i think of new things i'd like to do with this, it will undoubtablty get more expensive.

Also boot time is not an issue, as already discussed in earlier posts, this thing resumes from suspend and does not boot each time it starts.

Also discussed in earlier posts was temperature, which in this build has been tested over 100 deg and for me I don't have to worry about sub zero temperatures. Automotive/Industrial PC's are designed to operate in a wider temperature range, ( Just like the ECU in a fuel injected car ! )

I am not doing this based on cost but alpine/pionneer units with 1/2 of the functionality I am implementing used to cost $2000, but now can be had for $800 or less.

If you'd like to spend $2500 just let me know, not only will it work but i'll gold plate the build for ya

@87WS6

The only mis-information here is contained in your posting...

I'm sorry you've had problems with codec packs, I haven't. It sounds like you've had many problems with pc builds, this really isn't the place to discuss your issues, you should probably try a PC forum.

Stripping down vista means removing un-nessasary process' thus freeing up processor and MEM for a better response and user experience. All changes are benchmarked, ( this should go without saying ) and has produced great results.

Also I have a number of devices that only have drivers for 32bit Windows OS'.

The processor MB spec is posted earlier, if you would have read the spec you'd see that the MB has an onboard processor and from that deduce what instruction set it supports.

As for your other comments, they really don't deserve a response, you should try to use google more and resolve the problems you have had with PC's, before telling other people they are going to experience them too and fail as you did.

@Everyone else who's interested in this build, and doesn't wanna post smack :-

Total Bill of Materials

Motherboard W/processor $154.99
Case $79.99
PSU $79.95
Memory $100
Touchscreen $139
GPS $35.99
HDD $79.95

Total Cost
$669.87

I have chosen parts that meet _my_ needs, you could spend a lot less on the PSU, MEM, and HDD, and if you didn't want/need so much capacity and build for around $500 bucks or so, or hell go to town and get the fanciest stuff you can afford! Either way you won't get criticism from me.

Had a talk with an Audi engineer over the weekend about the new MMI features they are integrating into the high end luxury market, A8 cars. They have started to incorporate google maps and PC type features into their cars too utilising 3G/4G technology. Basically anyone who can use a desktop pc can use a car pc, the skills transfer very easily. Their new technology only has 1/4 of the featues set that I can implement on this.

hardon85

I wasn't trying to talk smack about what you are doing and I apologize if it came off that way. As I stated I am very interested in these builds as I really do think this is the future of audio entertainment. The only point I was trying to make was it is not a simple plug and play install and I still wouldn't call it cheap. Just a few questions though, it does seem like the prices did come down when I last looked, where did you buy these components? I think last time I looked the cheapest touchscreen I could find was $189 or somewhere around there. Also with the suspend/hibernate feature I'm curious does this continue to draw power when the key is off? The HDD would need to be powered all the time to have this feature wouldn't it? If so would this be close to the draw that a regular head unit has? (I did watch your youtube video but I must admit I don't know how many amps a regular radio takes). Also a few questions with the bluetooth GPS and regular radio. I see you bought a GPS thing for $35 does this also include the software? I'm sure you need something to make the bluetooth work or is this integrated on your motherboard? Also is regular radio gonna be in your car or is this another thing that is integrated on your board?

And I have a few more questions specific to your build. Is your laptime recorder going to be integrated with your GPS? If not how exactly will that work?

I would love to see you implement your climate controls with servos or whatnot and I think that would be a very clean looking install as you could mount the whole screen in the radio pod or make a custom radio pod and it would look awesome. Keep us posted with many details if you decide to go that route.

Also I know you're not doing this based on price. But I think the $669 is just the tip of the iceberg. I think that once you add tax or shipping whichever you had to pay and add in the rest of the components you need to finish your build (front and rear cameras and whatever else may be needed), all the wiring and cables to hook it up and all the hardware to mount the components I think it will be closer to $1000.

I'm not trying to discourage you at all you will definitely have a one of a kind system. I'm not sure where you are located but I would love to see it when it is all done. On a side note I think somebody is gonna make a lot of money when they integrate a lot of these features (radio, bluetooth and other desirable features) on the motherboard and get a good standalone interface where you wouldn't need windows at all and all you would have to do is hook it up (I know that would take away the fun that most people who set these up have) these things will sell like hotcakes. Good luck and I can't wait to see it finished.

Also one other question with the double din units. You said that they cost about $800 with half of the functionality of your unit. I currently plan on going with a double din unit but I see these (pioneer) for between $400-$800 I always thought the biggest option was whether it had GPS built in or not and the size of the screen as they all seem to have the same features other than that. But I'm curious what other features the $800 come with that I missed. Thanks

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

This shows your lack of knowledge on the subject. The hardware you are installing is no more meant for a car than your average Toshiba laptop or Dell desktop. Your hard disk choice is marginally better than a standard drive in a vehicle environment.

Boot time may not be an issue but an SSD would still be a far better choice as they can handle far more shock and vibrations than a standard mechanical drive can. However I do concede that such drives are more expensive.

Testing for 100F may not be enough. Depending on where you live temperatures inside the car can exceed 120F. Most computer hardware is designed for an operational range far below that threshold. What exactly have you done to test thermal limits of your build?

Not quite.

Did I say I had PC problems or sought help to resolve any? I'm not currently having codec pack problems. I don't typically need them. I just get the individual codecs I need if and when I need them. This has worked best for me. I know many other people that have had experiences like yours and in contrast, with experiences more like mine. Again this isn't misinformation, just my experience and opinion on the matter. A difference in experience doesn't make someone inept or mean that their wrong.

I am fully aware of what it means to strip out these services and files. I'm also well aware that my comment on the matter goes against the grain of what many people have been doing for several years now. That includes me. I used to strip out files and services that "weren't needed" as well. I've also seen and I've had to fix many systems that were so optimized. Even under the best of circumstances some of the benefits of such optimizations are highly dubious at best. Then again you can always put your money where your mouth is and post some benchmarks. Believe me I've done this stuff for years and I've never felt the difference in performance even after stripping damned near everything the OS didn't absolutely need. Then again the difference may be that I'm not using shitty hardware that can actually handle running the full OS?

Even when I have seen differences in benchmarks, they've never amounted to anything in the real world as far as system responsiveness goes. Then again as I said earlier, low end hardware isn't something I'm used to working with. Also bear in mind I'm referring to Windows Vista and Windows 7 more so than with the older OSes. I've been doing this a long time and have experience with all these operating systems starting with DOS.

To clarify: I'm not saying that you won't gain much if any performance through the removal of services and unnecessary Windows files on most modern hardware. There is value in the amount of disk space which can be saved through optimization. Perhaps I was misunderstood or I failed to convey my point properly? If so that's my fault.

Such as? I can't think of very many things made within the last three or four years that do not have 64bit drivers.

I didn't look up the actual Atom processor model used in the motherboard model you specified until now. I see now that it supports the 64bit instruction set for sure which again makes me question why you are using a 32bit version of the operating system. These days I see little to no reason to do so. Though some codecs only work with 32bit Windows, this is typically because the developers of the codec are lazy or the codecs are old. If you have hardware that truly doesn't support a 64bit OS then I can understand sticking with it, I'm just curious what that hardware may be. The information provided earlier concerning 32bit OSes is out of date and is misinformation!

I didn't fail at anything. I build systems all the time and they work great. Chances are I have built and serviced FAR more of them than you have. I typically spend more time and money on computer hardware each year than many people on thirdgen.org spend on their cars. I may not know how to tune a carburetor but I can do a lot with computers as they are my area of expertise. I've worked professionally in the computer industry for 15 years in numerous aspects of this industry including hardware repair, building PC's, IT, server administration, etc. I've even serviced machines used to service specialty equipment such as those used in the diagnostics of aircraft. Again just because I disagree with you doesn't make me wrong. It doesn't even necessarily make you wrong. However you seem to be under the assumption that you can't possibly be wrong or that experiences other than yours have any value. My mistake.

There is no need to be an *** about it. I thought this thread would be like most others on this site and provide a venue for rational discussion on the subject matter. It seems clear that this was not your intention when you created the thread.

You can't really spend a lot less on the PSU, memory or hard drive without buying garbage.

True. A dedicated PC can provide you with far more options which is a reason why I've considered a build like this for myself. I have been for several years now.

astrosurfer

Interesting thread....
Got a little out of hand maybe on an argumentative level. IMO. Although I understand the need to stand and defend ones experience and knowledge. Just does not make for good reading for us outsiders.
That aside....
Not a bad price to incorporate a computer into a car with such functionality.
I think there's going to be much further development with these in the future the way modern tech is getting smaller and more powerful.
I'd like to do something in the future, so I appreciate ALL the info here.
I will do much research before I attempt an install of this magnitude.
Thanks for the great and useful information here, from ALL parties.

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Argument is always gonna continue/happen when someone believes his knowledge is better than someone elses.

@87, I also saw flaws in his choices, but after reading It is better off to hang back and let him do his thing, I have been dealing with computers for over 8 years and have seen multiple errors and bad choices from the forums I have been on, you get used to it for those who want to stick with their choosings.

rockstar08

I agree there's nothing worse than reading someone else's ranting', what works for one may not work for someone else.

To be quite honest, I don't wish to waste my time or anyone elses who finds themselves reading these antaganous comments, so no further updates will be made to this thread!

@87
Your experience is not as good as you might think it is. Come back and give your advice when you reach technical architect with 20 years in. May be then you'll make some sense.

What makes you think that you have serviced far more pc's than I have, you don't know me, or my experience, yet you feel it appropriate to post smack comments your only 31 and just a technician (as taken from your profile)!

@hardon85

Will answer your questions via PM. My apologies if I came off poorly too.

Thanks,
RS.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I'm making plenty of sense. Just what is it you are having a hard time understanding?

Whatever, you don't know my experience either. That information in my profile is old and I've done much more since I filled that out when I joined the board in the early 2000's. I've worked in many areas of the industry. As far as servicing machines, I've done large deployments, managed thousands of machines, and I've built hundreds of them. I've done Exchange installations, built AD domains, etc. I used to work in a high volume service center where I worked on upwards of 30 different machines a day. I've seen, worked on, built, and deployed more machines and solutions than I can ever remember or count. Maybe you have too, I don't know and frankly it doesn't matter for the purpose of this conversation. I rarely meet anyone who has worked on more machines, for more companies that aren't considerably older than I. And many people much older than myself are out of touch with modern hardware and solutions. Rather than argue experience, (though admittedly I started it) how about telling me where I'm wrong? What newer hardware is it that doesn't have 64bit drivers?

The information you've posted concerning 32bit vs. 64bit is outdated and wrong. I think you are over valuing optimization and stripping down services and files. On modern hardware it doesn't accomplish as much as you might think but whatever. I'll agree to disagree with you on those two points. I am also concerned about the thermal solution and how you plan on dealing with heat. You posted some numbers which seem to have come from the Intel thermal specifications guide for the Atom but I wonder what the temperatures will reach while inside a car that's sat in the Arizona sun. Having lived there I know how hot it gets out there. Inside the car you will easily see temperatures exceeding 95F. The motherboard and ION chipset can handle it, but the rest of the board components and system components come into question.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I liked this thread too. Not the first time it's happened here though.

I suggest using the ignore option for Nick Burns and continuing with the thread.

rockstar08

Ok so i've been asked to carry on this thread by a few people here, so jacka$$ has been ignored and on we go...

Today i did some more temperature testing, bear in mind that the CARPC will be running when the AC is too, so I figured the ideal testing temp is going to be around 105-110 Deg F for Arizona summers.

I placed some logging software on the CARPC and left it in the car for 20hrs or so. The CARPC performed admirably, without hanging.

Heres a quick snapshot i did of the CARPC's internal temps at 104 Deg F

The processor can reliably work up to 75 Deg C, maxing out at 85 Deg C.

I am very happy!

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I'm curious as to whether or not the car was outside to heat up or was in a garage or covered parking?

astrosurfer

good question 87WS6.
I got a couple for now too...
What if say, the car has sat outside all day in the sun....it's 3 pm and the interior of the car is looking more like 150F-170F (black car in Louisiana).
Would this affect PC boot time?
If the climate were to be controlled by the Car PC, and there was a problem booting, Would there be some sort of manual back up or override so to speak?
I'm asking because I'm assuming you/I would have to replace the climate controls with something computer operable if it went that direction. I could see nowhere to relocate them.
It's a really good project you got going on, I'm intrigued with all of this because I'd like to do something in the future.


edit: I re-read and you didn't say about pc controlling the climate...but it would be cool though.

rockstar08

Heat does not affect boot time. I thought about working climate control into this, but that should be a separate project.

WS87 is on my ignore list so I don't see any of his posts.

I've been using this build in another car, in the Arizona sun all day today, the cars thermometer showed 118Deg F, it operates without any temperature related problems. Its been parked with the AC on, driven on the road, parked in an open parking lot, and in a covered parking structure.

150-170F seems a little excessive to me, do you live in Louisiana? if so can you verify the diurnal temperatures there with a thermometer in your car? Humans have a hard time surviving at 170F never mind computers. So at that temperature i wouldn't expect to be in the car listening to the radio.

Heres a quote from a web site discussing the body's internal temperature..

* 44°C (111.2°F) or more - Almost certainly death will occur; however, patients have been known to survive up to 46.5°C (115.7°F)

A real life test is the best way to weed out any issues.. and I am very happy with the results.

Next job is to fabricate a bezel, to replace the factory one, I'm starting work on this tonight.. I plan on building 2 types one with and one without heater and air controls..

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I doubt the temperature reaches those levels inside the car even in the hot sun. Houston, Florida, and other areas are just as humid and hot and still that doesn't happen. 120F-130F sure, but 170F? I doubt it. In any case as the original poster already responded, heat does not effect boot time. However it could potentially effect the longevity of a hard drive's life span. That's the conventional wisdom anyway. Though Google did a study on this in their own data centers and found temperature to play very little a roll in the longevity of magnetic hard disks. Generally though keeping one running in cooler temperatures or at least more consistent temperatures is always a good idea. It can't hurt right?

In any case this is one of the two reasons why I would only use an SSD in a car PC build. Among the first issues that addresses is heat as they are less likely to fail as a result of heat exposure, and certainly the lack of moving platters which can be damaged due to shock which a car can easily experience hitting a pot hole or just even a rough ride over pavement.

I'd love to see this done. I'm sure it could be but I know of no software out there that is designed for this at present and you'd need digital climate control hardware similar to the GTA's with digital dash to control everything automatically.

Agreed.

Still look forward to the completed build.

86White_T/A305

welcome to the infotainment era my friend I wouldnt go back to a head unit after this.

Falconiroc

I like this very much. I'm in the very early stages of my rebuild right now, and I have a Notebook PC that had a bad fan, and unfortunately it was the power plug on the motherboard that wasn't supplying the power to the fan. There isn't any reliable 5v power I can tie into in the system, so I was considering turning it into a carputer. You mentioned earlier in your posts that this wasn't a good Idea, I'm curious why that is? I would not be using the default monitor, instead I would use the VGA port to power a 7" touch screen with the full size screen that I could plug in manually if needed (in the case of an error.

The notebook is a very nice system and has 2 Shock resistant 120gb 7200RPM drives with it, so I think given the right setup it could work, but I'd like to see what you have to say about attempting to use a notebook (not the full case, just the components) as a carputer?

rockstar08

The laptops components won't stand up to the AZ heat very well, if you could build yourself some type of custom case out of aluminum with some heatsink fins on it, and create a continuos flow of air through it, maybe? but to me it wouldn't be worth the hassle.

Fans fail on laptops out here all the time, if you can, go over the motherboard connector for the fan with a soldering iron, its probably a dry joint and/or faulty fan. (try the fan with a battery as well :-) maybe you could get your laptop serviceable for something else.

I have an old gateway laptop that gets more solder every year, it is 6 years old and still ticking.. kinda! :-) it kicks out more heat than a powerplant..

The reason that my build withstands the heat is because of its case design construction, and choice of motherboard/CPU components.

rockstar08

Nice build!
What make/size screen are you running? I don't think i'm gonna use the AC/heat controls, right now I am designing a micro-controller/relay solution to manipulate the AC controls automatically. So I will just have the touch screen and the bezel visible.

The controls will be manipulatable when the CARPC is off, but also controllable through a centrafuse plugin.

rockstar08

Had a go at fabing a bezel for this, first attempts didn't go so well. I bought some acrylic sheeting from home depot and cut them to dimension.

Looks like its way too thin as they both cracked when installed. So I am either going to find something thicker or maybe glue layers to the back for additional strength.

Anyway heres a few pics so you can get the idea.. note the small socket where the cracks are.. is painted using black interior plastic paint.

I do like the way it looks though without the flash its a very black matt finish. This is coming on very well..

Edit: Heres a link to a youtube video, Car PC Running

astrosurfer

I'll get some real temp readings from inside the car. From outside the car.
It gets really hot in there. Yes I am in Walker, Louisiana. Work in Baton Rouge, LA.
I kinda threw out the temp at that level because when it's around 97*F here it's way hotter in the car. I work with metal all day most days here and last summer I put my digital thermometer on it which registered 148*F.
So I'm thinking...metal car, enclosed space, nowhere for the heat to escape.....
I pretty sure my car gets hotter inside than 118*F on a hot August day. It's unbearable.
I'm not intending to sit in there at that temperature. I understand humans have limits.
Babies, dogs and pets and stuff die around here when people forget they left them in the car.
You can't just get right in it and not feel any pain. Doesn't feel good at the end of a nice hot day.
That's why my auto starter comes in handy...providing I remember to switch on the ac that is.
But I'll snap some pics of my thermometer when it gets to height of summer....
I'm curious to see some real summer temps from inside now. It's apparently not hot here yet according to the locals.
Also fact is right now that my TA is not my DD but my Firebird 4G is. Still black same as my TA.

86White_T/A305

im using some no name chinese touch screen i found on ebay awhile back for $60 just for testing.Its a 7" screen vga,but i plan on buying a xenarc with hdmi since my pc has hdmi output. i kept my hvac controls because i wont things to appear fairly stock with lil mods you dont notice right away.when i get the screen i want and mold it to the dash trim piece i plan on having it painted to look like the original grid that was there on the transam piece.

also when using the car pc to control the hvac on older cars with a cable system requires a bit of work to get it working right with sliding the cable using some type of motor and setting a limiter.i found it too much work for very lil gain.

however im still kicking over the idea of a 8-10' screen on the passenger side dash lol and a camera setup for rearview and webcam inside

astrosurfer

looks pretty awesome dude.
Impressive indeed.
This is in the future for my 3rd gen for sure.

86White_T/A305

cant say ive seen a car pc in a 3rd gen maro but that does look good.my only prob when i was doing my screen is i hate having buttons on the screen,i prefer a cleaner look of just the screen so that when others look at my car they wont say i just stuck a screen in the dash and its easy.i wanted a more factory fit and finish and im determined to get there lol.right now im working on molding and fitting the voom pc case in my passenger bottom dash and cutting up some of the ducting for room and blend it in so that all you see is the front panel.this is the bigger challenge than molding my screen.

also a big tip if you ever decide to take the screen apart and mold it in.layer the inside of the radio cavity with tin foil or aluminum tape.it will keep video noise out but does get very hot so try to install a fan to keep the screen from over heating.i found this out the hard way

Falconiroc

I'm planning on doing a carputer as part of my build on my '91 Z28 (check the LSX builds threads) I am either going to use the innnards of a DELL Inspiron 1720 I have laying around OR build one specifically for the project. Likelihood is I'll use the notebook, its quite a machine, so it has plenty of juice to power whatever media I want including blu ray. There are many question marks in the project, but I am by far in no hurry to finish immediately. I'm upgrading to a 4th gen interior, so there are a few options for screen choices and what-not. I'll use as big of a screen as I can fit in the dash, touch screen, and I'm hoping to snag one that will do at least 720p, for blu ray.


What kind of software packages are you guys using for your touch and ingnition start stuff?

86White_T/A305

the best place too find all the software and hardware questions and answers would be on mp3car.com read up on their forums on whats the latest stuff to use.

i built my carputer with one of there power supply and it provides a remote turn on wire for amplifiers..it has a 12v constant,12v ignition,and ground wires.and the way it works is that the power supply is a timed on/off unit.when the the ignition is on the computer will boot up.when you turn it off you can set it up to either go into sleep/hibernate/or shutdown the computer.so even though you take the keys out..it will safely power down and then after 10-15 mins the power supply also shuts down so its not draining the car battery..but retains memory.its called an intelligent power supply.lots of info on it over there.

software i bought the centrafuse front end to tie everything to one easy program to access my music/videos/ipod/dvd drive/gps/bluetooth.i used the gps receiver they sell..and the audio micrphone.my only grip is cutting down the boot time from each initial start up..other than that..i simply love it and for under $1000 you have one of the most trick...never out of date deck around lol

astrosurfer

As stated earlier I would post up some in car temperatures.
Some may be surprised with the results. I know I am not because I know first hand how hot it gets in there by 4 pm when I leave the shop to go home.
Bear in mind that it's not quite it's hottest yet here in Louisiana...we still got about 5 degrees F to go yet So inside will be hotter still.
To avoid posting up 20 pics of various daytime pics I've zipped them up into one folder.
These were taken through my car window, inside at the thermometer sitting on my centre console.

Now with this evidence... what would fail to operate at those temps in a carPC build? Knowing that the car does not cool off instantly inside.

My primary concern would be the LCD screen. It's open to the UV beating and extreme heat found within the car. I know I could find a way to cover the screen...but who would remember to do that every morning at 6.30 am.
How would a hard drive stand up? Immediate and long term?

I'm keen to try something in the future, however heat may play a huge role for me.

OK I'm having an issue with the file size...it's 10.5 meg and the limit is 1 meg...Ugh.
OK I've uploaded them to imageshack and I'll just post the links.

These 3 of 5 were SATURDAY...it was actually dulling over when I remembered to do this. Daytime temp was 92F.
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6392/pa070253.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8198/pa070254.jpg
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/9706/pa070255.jpg

These were SUNDAY...temp was around 93F. outside. Selection of the 15 other images I took that day.
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/6730/pa080262.jpg
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3906/pa080264.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3088/pa080267.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2889/pa080270.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7301/pa080273.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7922/pa080275.jpg

I don't feel such a fool now for my original speculation.
I think it will get closer to my upper temp as summer goes on.
Now I am wondering how my Sony head unit can perform in that heat with no issues. Must be well figured out component wise.

rockstar08

Wow, I guess its not just the sauce thats hot in Louisiana! I must take a visit there some day.

Hard disk(s), typically they fail/experience degraded life when temps get over 140 deg f

Checkout the spec on this one here... WD Scorpio Blue 2.5" HD

As you can see there are two temperatures to worry about, operating and non operating. The non operating limit is 149 Deg F.

Then again, you'd have the same problem if you went with an OEM/Pioneer headset Nav unit with HD, their HDs are of similar design and constraints. So i guess you can roll the dice and takes yer chance..

Was your car in a parking structure/direct sun or shaded area? I'm guessing that it was in direct sunlight without the window slightly open to vent the accumulated hot air? Here in AZ I always make the effort not to park in direct sunlight, more to save my paint than anything else..

Also they say that if you park in the heat in an older car you should have the window down a little, because the rush of cooler air when you open the door can crack your glass. ( I have never experienced this myself, but many car owners in the open parking lot in work actually do this.. )

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

I love this build, but god damm I hate the fact the system will be gone (Stolen) in a matter of seconds outside my area. Is there any systems with a removeable screen?

I have alot of extra computer parts laying around, even a complete year old lanbox build I did a while ago. Would a extra i7 920 I have never used be overkill?

Still good work, looks like a good system.

astrosurfer

You see that BS. HAHA it ain't no joke dude.
THAT'S why I am inquiring if this would work for me.
That was actually in my 4G firebird.
Most of the time I have nowhere to park my car in the shade. Especially the afternoons on work days. It's in the shop parking lot and stays there all day. I can understand about leaving the windows cracked...but it'd need to be down an inch or so to help..and with the chance of an afternoon monsoon in the summer...I have done that but I hated walking out to a pretty wet car. So now I don't do it.
At home I do have tree shade for most of the day...but I'm at home in the extreme heat merely on weekends, and sometimes not much then either.
I have my 3G trans am under the tree right now so my 4G sits in front of my Trailer...I mean, Manufactured home, in the sun.
I'd hate to waste my money all in one hot summers afternoon, and find myself a few hundred bucks down the drain on perfectly ruined goods because I just had to have it...lol. And I got to have it. I need to figure out how though. Knowing what I'm up against is the biggest hurdle, in my book.
Yesterday I got in my car after work and my little thermometer was so hot that the LCD was non functional. I held it up to the AC until it started to show life again (all 8888E).
Coming from Scotland UK...this is HELL dude...LOL...no, it's hotter than HELL here.
Now, I think you could understand that I might be just a little envious of your awesome install.

clomkfly

bump...howd the build go...or going?!

JTNKTZ

iTrader: (10)

I wanna do this, I have an extra laptop laying around and yeah yeah I know you recommend not to use one blah blah blah. :P

My only question is how do you hook the radio up? For example I have a decent system in my car. Did you use a sound card so something of that nature?

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

You can hook the radio up to the sound hardware on the motherboard or sound card if using an add in sound board. You can also hook the sound hardware directly to the car's speakers but you'll most likely have to add an amplifier as sound cards (especially onboard sound) typically lack an amplifier or an amplifier that is strong enough to drive speakers of that size with any kind of volume.

86White_T/A305

or if you want to cheat and not replace the stereo you have in the car,just use a 2.5 stereo cable out from the laptop/carputer and plug it into the aux of the radio your using if it has aux on it.this is what most ppl do when adding the laptop with the existing stereo.

if not..then you need to use amplifiers and rewire the audio in the car.my sound card has front rear and sub output onboard.

rockstar08

Its completed, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkjOwmJ_bLE

Although this video has an early bezel, the last one i made has a better finish.

My amp is capable of accepting line and non line level inputs, so thats how I drive the speakers from the onboard sound card.

Overall I am very happy with it, I am in the process of building and installing another 5 systems based on this design.

86White_T/A305

looks good rockstar08, i love centrafuses multi sourcing feature.i would have 10 things going on it from movies or playlists etc...switch between them and it plays right where you left off.i do prefer some of the newer skins available..might make my own to suit the cars personality more one day.

what version of windows are you using and how do you like that startup and shut down times?im upgrading to win 7 and changing the power supply settings for shutdown length....using win xp on my system isnt all that great for hibernating after being off for too long.my powersupply fully shuts down to protect the battery after its off for 5 mins