ok guys i got some questions about subs. What hits harder 8's 10's or 12's because i've been hearing different things from ppl and its confusing some say 8's will hit hardest because they are the tightest but wouldnt' an 8 be a little too small. I think 10's hit the hardest but you ppl know more than me so can you answer the question. Also i Have a radio out of a 99 Z and a 94 ta and i was wondering what modification would be needed to make it fit in the stock location of the stock radio right now they stick out a little further than the stock radio Thanks a lot guys.

 

well actually for "hitting" I think either 8's or 10's are pretty good. but I know a coupe guys that have 12's or 15's in their cars and they THUMP! feels like some one hitting you in the chest. I guess it just depends on that you have a match box sub and amp. Any sub with a good box and a good amp will hit pretty hard. I had a pair of thump 10's that I bought for $35 and a 200 watt amp running em and they sounded alright, and hit alright but they are nothing compared to my new subs.

 

it depends alot on the box you have in it. You could have million dollar subs in a wrongly built box that makes them sound like crap. On the other hand, to a extent, you could have cheap subs in a nicely made box that will surprise you. A far as the 4th gen radios, the should fit with a little inginuity. Hardest part is the wiring.

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1991 Firebird (GT40)
-LO3 305 TBI
-5 speed
-Open Element Air Filter
-Edelbrock Tower Strut Brace
-Kenwood Excelon Headunit w/ 10 Disc Changer
-Alpine MRP-F256 Amp
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-Kicker ZR240 amp (bridged)
-Dual JL W0 12" Subs

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nah the 4 th gen radios plug right in its just making them fit properly oh by the way Happy thanksgiving every one and thanks for the quick replies.

 

your best bet is either the 10s or the 12s. and yes, building a good airtight box is important. 12s can hit a bit lower than 10s while still keeping much of the clarity. i've found that 12s are just right for most people.

 

Well, if you want to look at it from a point of view of how speakers work and what is physically possible...

All a sub does is move air at a low frequency. The more cone area you have, the more air that is displaced, the higher SPL you can achieve. Now if you take a higher number of smaller speakers, 8's for example or a lower number of larger speakers, 12's and up, it doesn't much matter as you will achieve moving the same amount of air.

NOW, the difference between the sizes is going to come into play when you are looking to achieve lower frequencies. The larger the sub, generally the lower it will play at higher output. An 8" for example may play a 20hz note at 80db where a 12" may be able to play that same note at 100db.

(these are just basic examples, the numbers may not be accurate, but they get the point across)

As far as which is tighter, these days you can get a 15" sub to sound as "tight" as an 8" sub if it is installed in the proper enclosure. Smaller enclosures will give you slightly better control and better power handling but you will loose some output at lower frequencies. Larger boxes will give you more output at lower frequencies, but you will start to give up control which is where the "boominess" comes from...Just remember to keep the sub within it's tollerances of the manufacturers suggested enclosure size.

So, now the short answer...8's or 15's doesn't much matter as long as it's executed right and which works better for your install.

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Carl
CarAudio Resources
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[This message has been edited by GndPrx (edited November 22, 2001).]

 

When you're dealing with limited space, you can get more total cone area out of a larger number of smaller drivers, but in general, smaller drivers have a lower sensitivity, so there's a trade-off. If you look at most SPL vehicles, they tend to be 10s because you can fit so many into an area. 8s don't seem as popular because their maximum output is too limited in most cases.

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My neighbor just came over and offered me a box for my camaro with 2 12's in it for $200. Good deal, or pass? He's also got two Rockford Fosgate 12's for $100. Again, good deal or pass? I know very little about this stereo stuff, so I'd probably get them just to re-sell. Opinions?

 

Id take the deal. but aths just me, well Id take the subs if oyu get em both for $100 not $100 each but it also depends on the model if they are $300 each new Id take it

 

the 12's tend to be sloppy and dont rebound as fast.. as a smaller 8 or 10 ... but they do pound i only have one 12 and ive had people complain that there 2 10s dont do as much as my 12

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plain,

I paid $120 for a decently-made custom box for two 12s for my car at one of those swap-meet places, until I get around to making my own. Or at the other end of the scale, the Q-logic one goes for a little over $300. So to pay $200 for the box with subs.....depends on how well-made the box is, and what kind of subs they are.

As far as the other deal, Rockford makes some subs that go for barely more than $100 a pair, even brand new. And they make others that cost a couple hundred a piece, maybe more. Get us the model number, or just punch the model number in on eBay and see what the going price is.

 

it completly depends on the subs, power and boxes. <- #1 rule!! the cone is what make the sub "rebound" faster or slower. The heavier the cone, the slower it will move, therefore the sloppy-er it will sound. and sloppyness is the opposite of "hitting." 15" Titanuim eclipses are a hell of alot more accurate than some road gear 10"s. no contest. and when it come to "hitting" that depends on everything... I had a 10" Cerwin-Vega that hit as hard as my friends 2 12" polk subs. why could it compete. my amp kicked the crap out of his. i had an avaliable 1100 watts ready to go to that sub with my directed 1100d. he has a bazooka amp that if i remember corectly is rated at 600 watts. i couldnt turn up the gain or i would kill the sub and his gain had to be almost all the way up. (kinda funny that we both blew our subs at the same time, mine was too much power and his was not enough)

Just remember! its not the size that counts! its the quality. and as a general rule, alot of subs + alot of power + the right boxes + hooking it all up right = massive hitting. a van with 10,000 watts and 24 kenwood 12" subs was litterally making it hard to breathe it was hitting so hard. it was basically knocking the wind out of me.

 

I would have to say from my experience that 10's and 12's hit the hardest, but u by far feel 15's more, 8's are just too small, dont get enough low stuff for me. but thats my .02

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Deck: Kenwood Excelon KDC-X911
Kenwood Excelon KDC-CX83 - 10 disc changer
Kenwood KGC-9044 Digital EQ

Amps: Kenwood Excelon KAC-X401M - 600watts RMSx1@2ohms
Kenwood Excelon KAC-X501F - 300watts RMSx2@2ohms or 150watts RMSx4@2ohms

Speakers: Kenwood KFC-6908 6x9's 4-ways
Kenwood Excelon KFC-XR60P 6.5"

Sub: RF Punch HX2 Dual Voice Coil- 300watts RMS per voice coil


If its not a camaro or corvette then what is it really?

 

With out a doubt the smaller speaker will hit harder but won't be as loud. 8"'s are good for mid-bass, but do have a little low end boom,(just not as loud). I love 10"'s. Personal prefference. Like jim85iroc said, more space to put smaller speakers.

They hit, and boom with ease, and accuracy.

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'82 Firebird, dead stock, 9 bolt disc rear, over 200,000 miles and still going strong, more to come...
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i consider myself pretty knowledgable on this topic, for the mere fact that most people i know, and soon myself all have sweet systems and i helped install most all of them. speaking from personal opinion alone, i think u could get an 8 to hit harder than a 15 if the 8 has a sweet box and a great amp and the 15 is some cheap homemade p.o.s and the amp is somethin u bought at walmart that blows a fuse everytime u turn it up. so i would say go with whatever u can afford with a good amp and box.

also this whole topic is mainly just personal preference some guys like big woofers some like small ones, it just depends. but i still say go with what u can afford and get good amp and box.

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86 sc z-28
305 ci around 150 hp prob lil more
my first car and the best one i will ever own.

[This message has been edited by hot86z-28 (edited November 30, 2001).]

 

Installed in a good box w/the proper airflow for the sub, i think 8's are a waste of cash, 10's hit tight, 12's and 15's go low. Think of it in terms of airflow. What air is an 8 inch speaker gonna move. 10's can move a decent amout, w/decent power they're awsome, 12's have that lower response tho due to more surface area

 

I personally like 2 dvc 8" subs... they give a nice low end presence and have a really quick rebound. Right now im using 2 orion 8" dvc subs with a 4 channel JBL amp.. (cheap but it sounds decent.)

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get 12's

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--- Current Daily Driver ---
Maroon 1989 Camaro RS - Crappy 305 TBI / Auto
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50% on windshield, GTO Blackouts, Fixing rust and painting soon


--- Current Project ---
1997 Chevy S10 .. Lots of Mods

S.I.C.K. Ryder

 

I want to try to clear up some myth about larger speakers being "sloppy". Somebody here will inevitably choose argue with me until the thread is locked, but we'll just ignore him.

Anyway, the idea of 12s being "slower" than 10s is pure myth. So is the idea of a heavier cone making them sloppy. Most of the best sounding subs on the market today have very heavy cones in order to work well in small enclosures, a technology that was pioneered by Kicker with their Solobarac sub. The mass of the cone will devistate a sub's sensitivity, and to an extent will make it slower, but with a proper motor structure it will still react fast enough to reproduce the necessary frequencies. Which brings me to my next point... speed. The "speed" of a sub is what determines to how high of a frequency it can play. If a sub can oscillate fast enough to reproduce, say, a 500hz signal, you can be 100% sure that it can reproduce a 50hz signal with no difficulty. A 50hz signal requires the sub to move at 10% of the speed that a 500hz signal requires, and since you're dealing with a sinusoidal signal and not an instantaneous signal, a sub doesn't need to be very "fast" at all to keep up.

So why do 10s (in general) sound "faster" than 12s? It's all about low bass reproduction. 10s tend not to have as much output at the lowest octave. The lowest octave or 2 is thick and slow sounding. When you remove that from your sound, what's left is the bass in a little higher frequency range, which gives the impression of "fast" sound because it's got a quick punch and doesn't stick around for a half hour like low frequencies do. You can make 12s sound the same simply by putting a filter inline. If you use an EQ to make a 12" and 10" system provide an identical frequency response, you'll be hard pressed to hear a difference.

*Jimbo puts on his kevlar suit*

------------------

The IROC Homepage
<A HREF="http://www.rit.edu/~jli4307/camaro" TARGET=_blank>
View the restoration of an 85 IROC</A>
Custom Thirdgen Subwoofer Enclosures
"I didn't know a bored out Ford could go so slow" -Shenandoah

 

What about an 8 and a 12 together... wouldn't that get you a better range?

 

No. All that will get you is the power handling of the weakest link (i.e. the 8") with a sound that's far worse than either of the two individually. When you mix 2 different subs, you're mixing 2 totally different sounds, which can cause a combing effect or at the very least, a very non-linear frequency response. It's been done with good results in the past, but it's basically like playing russian roulette with a 9 mm. You've got about a 1 in a million chance of it sounding good.


------------------

The IROC Homepage
<A HREF="http://www.rit.edu/~jli4307/camaro" TARGET=_blank>
View the restoration of an 85 IROC</A>
Custom Thirdgen Subwoofer Enclosures
"I didn't know a bored out Ford could go so slow" -Shenandoah

 

yups, mixing 8's and 12's isn't a bad idea at all if you want the bass to hit deep and tight across the board. I know in my next install (90 -92 IROC/Z28) I plan to run 2 12's (JL Audio 12w6's) in the trunk/hatch and I am seriously considering a set of JL Audio Microsub 8.1's as well (going with 2 8.1's instead of the 8.2 cuz i dunno where the 8.2 could fit). I'm thinking about an install under the armwrests of the back seats (cut into the plastic), or gut out the 6x9 space and install the microsubs there. Microsubs are great because the enclosure is so small, little fab work and you can fit them basically anywhere!!

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--- Current Daily Driver ---
Maroon 1989 Camaro RS - Crappy 305 TBI / Auto
Hypertech Stage 2 Chip (and 160/ThermoStat), 2.5" Pipes,
No Cat, Flowmasters (Dual), GT Grant Wheel, 5% Tint all around,
50% on windshield, GTO Blackouts, Fixing rust and painting soon


--- Current Project ---
1997 Chevy S10 .. Lots of Mods

S.I.C.K. Ryder

 

Running 8s for midbass is a popular thing to do. Running the 8s and 12s over the same frequency range will not provide good results.

------------------

The IROC Homepage
<A HREF="http://www.rit.edu/~jli4307/camaro" TARGET=_blank>
View the restoration of an 85 IROC</A>
Custom Thirdgen Subwoofer Enclosures
"I didn't know a bored out Ford could go so slow" -Shenandoah