fuel system screwy(pump, filter, bad gas, sensor??) LG4, code 21 help! Damon, anyone
fuel system screwy(pump, filter, bad gas, sensor??) LG4, code 21 help! Damon, anyone
83 4bbl quadrajet lg4
heres the story i fill the tank up completely with 93 octane and i throw in a bottle of chevron (w/ techron) fuel/carb cleaner in couple days ago ran fine that same day (when it was running great). next day i go to drive my car and its running like crap... rough idle, low idle, wants to stall, terrible acceleration no power, check engine light comes on for a little while then goes off the choke light goes on and off sometimes too
that night i start car and it runs fine all night???
next day it runs crappier then before
get home and i run the code and i get 21 which is:
High voltage at throttle positon sensor
i also noticed that it doesnt reach operating temperature
today i go to start it and it runs terrible and then eventually dies
i thought that maybee the fuel system cleaner knocked some crap loose and got stuck in the filter so i changed the fuel filter but it diddnt help, so im thinking something is blocking the fuel system?
i crank it and it starts then dies, then i crank again and it wont start but it sounds like its trying to and it follows the starter but wont get any faster after i disengage it, then i see some smoke coming out of the carburator (im gettting nervous)
i checked the voltages at the TPS and i get about 2.8 on the fast idle cam and i manually took it off the fast idle (becasue my engine isnt warm becasue it wont start) and i get 2.3 as my base idle (way too high), ok i opent the throttle and it ends up at 4.6
i finally check one of the spark plugs (the first one on the drivers side) and it seems like it may be oil fouled (maybee gas?) and it even had some chunks on it (maybee just crap it rubd agains when i took it out)
oh on top of all that i have a leaking thermostat housing which is completely random
anyway it seems like i have more thatn one probelm at the same time and im going crazy i dunno if the fuel system cleaner even has anything or is it just a coincidence, could be timing?
should i just replace the spark plugs and the TPS tomarow?
if i replace the TPS should i replace the airhorn gasket? wher can i get that? could i use RTV?
any other info you need jsut aske but please help me i wasnt getting any help over at camaroz28.com and i really need a second opinion to how i should tackle this
possibility: the TPS is saying 2.3 and the MCS is thinking throttle is open and going rich? does the system work this way or is the TPS not afect that?
heres the story i fill the tank up completely with 93 octane and i throw in a bottle of chevron (w/ techron) fuel/carb cleaner in couple days ago ran fine that same day (when it was running great). next day i go to drive my car and its running like crap... rough idle, low idle, wants to stall, terrible acceleration no power, check engine light comes on for a little while then goes off the choke light goes on and off sometimes too
that night i start car and it runs fine all night???
next day it runs crappier then before
get home and i run the code and i get 21 which is:
High voltage at throttle positon sensor
i also noticed that it doesnt reach operating temperature
today i go to start it and it runs terrible and then eventually dies
i thought that maybee the fuel system cleaner knocked some crap loose and got stuck in the filter so i changed the fuel filter but it diddnt help, so im thinking something is blocking the fuel system?
i crank it and it starts then dies, then i crank again and it wont start but it sounds like its trying to and it follows the starter but wont get any faster after i disengage it, then i see some smoke coming out of the carburator (im gettting nervous)
i checked the voltages at the TPS and i get about 2.8 on the fast idle cam and i manually took it off the fast idle (becasue my engine isnt warm becasue it wont start) and i get 2.3 as my base idle (way too high), ok i opent the throttle and it ends up at 4.6
i finally check one of the spark plugs (the first one on the drivers side) and it seems like it may be oil fouled (maybee gas?) and it even had some chunks on it (maybee just crap it rubd agains when i took it out)
oh on top of all that i have a leaking thermostat housing which is completely random
anyway it seems like i have more thatn one probelm at the same time and im going crazy i dunno if the fuel system cleaner even has anything or is it just a coincidence, could be timing?
should i just replace the spark plugs and the TPS tomarow?
if i replace the TPS should i replace the airhorn gasket? wher can i get that? could i use RTV?
any other info you need jsut aske but please help me i wasnt getting any help over at camaroz28.com and i really need a second opinion to how i should tackle this
possibility: the TPS is saying 2.3 and the MCS is thinking throttle is open and going rich? does the system work this way or is the TPS not afect that?
two more things:
1 if any crap did get past the filter and got stuck in carb.. then what?
2 separate Q when i did the fuel filter i used a little teflon on the threads of the fuel line nut, is that a no-no? i dont really want to relate it to my problems tho becasue it was something i did after it started its downward spiral, i can always go and remove it tomarow morning
originally i thought i was being starved of fuel and that maybee my pump went bad or the filter got clogged, but it could also be too rich?
I thank you all in advance for any help you can give me and i apologize for the long posts
1 if any crap did get past the filter and got stuck in carb.. then what?
2 separate Q when i did the fuel filter i used a little teflon on the threads of the fuel line nut, is that a no-no? i dont really want to relate it to my problems tho becasue it was something i did after it started its downward spiral, i can always go and remove it tomarow morning
originally i thought i was being starved of fuel and that maybee my pump went bad or the filter got clogged, but it could also be too rich?
I thank you all in advance for any help you can give me and i apologize for the long posts
The TPS should be reading much lower than 2.3V at idle. Should be closer to .9V. I've rebuilt a few CC QJets, and nearly all have had a binding TPS shaft. Mine did the same years ago and caused idle and off idle problems.
Replacing the TPS means airhorn removal. You'd be better off just rebuilding the whole carb. While in the process you could eliminate any clogged fuel passages. Rarely does debris pass the filter though. That's what its for. DO NOT USE RTV FOR THE AIRHORN GASKET! The gasket should be included in a carb kit, which includes everything you need for a basic clean and rebuild.
Thermostat housing leaking? Excessive warm up time? Replace the thermostat.
The choke light will only come on if the choke fails or if your charging system fails. A very low, erratic, near stall idle will cause the choke light and check engine light to flicker.
Plugs fouled, replace them. They're cheap.
Remember: You're dealing with a 20 year old car. You may have more than one problem. Eliminate the obvious first.
Replacing the TPS means airhorn removal. You'd be better off just rebuilding the whole carb. While in the process you could eliminate any clogged fuel passages. Rarely does debris pass the filter though. That's what its for. DO NOT USE RTV FOR THE AIRHORN GASKET! The gasket should be included in a carb kit, which includes everything you need for a basic clean and rebuild.
Thermostat housing leaking? Excessive warm up time? Replace the thermostat.
The choke light will only come on if the choke fails or if your charging system fails. A very low, erratic, near stall idle will cause the choke light and check engine light to flicker.
Plugs fouled, replace them. They're cheap.
Remember: You're dealing with a 20 year old car. You may have more than one problem. Eliminate the obvious first.
aright i got the airhorn off and the gasket still looks like its new, i have a rebuild kit that i bought anyhow, but i might just reuse the gasket, the carb was remanufactured replacement in 2002
the gas in the bowl looked like it was black like oil
probably becasue of the cleaner cleaning carbon and crap out of everything
the old plugs have black carbon/oil and looks like little chuncks of carbon
i have new plugs, but im afraid they are just going to foul again, i dunno why it looks like that, and i have a full tank of gas, im thinking of removing the fuel line from the pump and letting it siphon out until it looks cleaner
for the thrmostat housing, should i use a paper gasket with RTV black, or i also bought a tube of that RTV stuff that is speciffically made for the thermostat housing by itself, its silver
the gas in the bowl looked like it was black like oil
probably becasue of the cleaner cleaning carbon and crap out of everythingthe old plugs have black carbon/oil and looks like little chuncks of carbon
i have new plugs, but im afraid they are just going to foul again, i dunno why it looks like that, and i have a full tank of gas, im thinking of removing the fuel line from the pump and letting it siphon out until it looks cleaner
for the thrmostat housing, should i use a paper gasket with RTV black, or i also bought a tube of that RTV stuff that is speciffically made for the thermostat housing by itself, its silver
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: lancaster,new york
Car: Trans am, sunfire
Engine: 305 4bbl, 2.3L
Transmission: 700 r4
Please Read all of the MSG !!!
ok first if you are going to rebuild a CC carb RQJ4 you need to purchase the right tools, if you have them oyur doing good.
next black fuel, looking like oil could mean your carb could be gummed up, do you store your car for long amounts of time ?. if you are having severe amounts of backfire that might turn the fuel black, but i have never seen that
replace your plugs
code 21 replace your TPS also rebuild the carb if you have never rebuilt a RQJ4 please read up on it before you dive in they are tricky and quite picky with small adjustments
as for your stat housing go out and buy a crome o-ring houseing ( only do this if you have removed all the emissions equip. and relocated your temp. sensor) it will never leak again
but it really seems to me your tps is misadjusted or dead
CHECK YOUR TIMEING, could also help is a vac. guage
ok first if you are going to rebuild a CC carb RQJ4 you need to purchase the right tools, if you have them oyur doing good.
next black fuel, looking like oil could mean your carb could be gummed up, do you store your car for long amounts of time ?. if you are having severe amounts of backfire that might turn the fuel black, but i have never seen that
replace your plugs
code 21 replace your TPS also rebuild the carb if you have never rebuilt a RQJ4 please read up on it before you dive in they are tricky and quite picky with small adjustments
as for your stat housing go out and buy a crome o-ring houseing ( only do this if you have removed all the emissions equip. and relocated your temp. sensor) it will never leak again
but it really seems to me your tps is misadjusted or dead
CHECK YOUR TIMEING, could also help is a vac. guage
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