lonesomeloser

I've had this thing thoroughly rebuilt and modified to run correctly with my car's specs. It's been adjusted on the car by the carb shop. I drove it home last week and it sat for a few days. 2 days ago it didn't want to start. It kept sputtering but finally did start. Today it didn't want to start again. I got it to start for maybe 5 seconds but it was rough and sputtering, and I had to keep my foot to the floor to keep it from dying, but it did anyway. It will not start at all now. It is definitely getting fuel, maybe flooded? I have the air intake held open with a screwdriver because that's what the carb shop said to do. He said he had no idea what's going on with it. Any help or advice would be appreciated. I am at the point of maximum frustration

Cosmik Debris

Are you sure the carb is your problem? 90% of all carb troubles are electrical :-)

travis401

iTrader: (1)

having the air intake held open with a screw driver is a bad idea, are you sure he didnt mean hold the choke open? if thats the case, its still a bad idea. an open choke on a cold engine will cause it to not want it to start or run.

try holding the pedal at about half throttle and try starting it that way. and also id check the plugs to make sure theyre not fouled out.

lonesomeloser

I have a non CC quadrajet.

Yes, I meant the choke. If it's getting too much fuel (flooded), he said this might help lean it out enough to maybe start. I pulled a couple of plugs and they are extremely black and looked moist, with a strong smell of gas. What would cause this and how can I clean the plugs to reuse them? So this would be a carb issue, right?

travis401

iTrader: (1)

if the plugs are wet and fouled then its either getting too much gas, or no spark. get some new plugs and verify your getting spark before trying to start it.

DoubleV

What carb rebuilder rebuids a custom carb 'to your specs' and then tells you to jam a screwdriver in it just to start it? I think you should instead jam that screwdriver into that morons skull so he can't 'rebuild' anymore useless carbs.

As stated above, jamming the choke full open on a cold engine will make it very difficult to start. This little bit of trivia somehow escaped the 'rebuilder' somehow...

Does this carb have a choke and a choke pull-off?

Blown86irocz28

I will offer this advice to you. First, let me just say that I am not claiming to be a carb expert. I was actually searching for something else and accidentally ended up here and caught DoubleV's reply to you about your carb. This is just based off of my own experience with dealing with carbs over the last 15 years. Take it any way you want, if it helps you out cool, otherwise ignore it, thats also cool. First, if I were you I would dump the quadrajet and get something else. Be it an edelbrock, holley, whatever, where I live it seems people are are 50/50 between these two. Personally, I would go with a holley, I honestly believe you get better performance from a Holley, but thats my opinion. Second, as far as a choke, screw it, you don't need it. If your fuel system does what its supposed to do, your carb is adjusted to where its pretty decent, and your ignition system provides enough spark, thats all you need. I live in omaha, I have a 350, .060 over, went way overboard on this motor even though that wasn't the intention. Weiand blower on top of the manifold with a 700 double pumper blower carb above that. The first year I put the engine in my camaro ended up being my only car for a while. It became an everyday driver, to work, everywhere. We can have some hellaciouslly cold temps here over the winter, and all I ever had to do in the morning was pump it slowly 3 times, wait about 15 sec. or so and turn the key. She'd fire right up. No choke needed, I would have to feather the pedal now and again for about the first min. or two to keep her going, but after that it would be fine. I don't know what you are doing with your car, whether its a toy or your primary vehicle. In all honesty you would most likely get better gas mileage with the quad as opposed to a holley, depending on which model is used. Here is one last thing I have learned over the years. I have rebuilt a shitload of holleys, a couple edelbrocks, I even had one of those big square open hole predator carbs, what I have noticed is that when it comes to quadrajets and rebuilding them, especially factory ones, it seems like 80-90 of them after being rebuit don't run right. I was told by an old man here in town that rebuilt carbs for almost 40 years that it was actually 80-90 percent of the people that try rebuilding quads cant get them right. I personally have never tried to rebuild one, I have heard they can be extremely difficult to get to run the right way again once they need rebuilt, which is why people usually pitch them. Like I said, I have never tried, maybe they are or maybe these people just don't know how to properly do the job. It sounds like the person that did yours falls into this category. If you are not that good with carbs, if I were you I would get something else. Hope this helps you in some way.

lonesomeloser

Appreciate the responses.

It has an electric choke. The car will be driven in the warmer months only. I am considering another brand if this thing is not going to work right. After the money and time dupmed into it, I should expect it to fire right up. Nothing aggravates me more than a car that won't start. Anyway, I'll talk to the builder again this week. I'll clean the plugs, check all the wires, and for spark. All the ignition stuff is new so I don't expect a problem. But I want to rule them out. Then I can lay into the carb guy.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

id lay into him anyway. theres no way a carb rebuilder can build a carb with it already "tuned to your specs". it just doesnt happen. he can get it in the ballpark, but the real tunning requires the carb to be ON the car and the car running.

lonesomeloser

He did. I drove it to his shop and he adjusted it with me in the car, while running, in gear, and at idle.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

ok, it sounded like you took him the carb and he "tuned it" and handed it back

lonesomeloser

This all started when it would not idle in gear. So, he drilled out the idle air tubes. I also replaced the converter with one with a higher stall. So, I drove the car back to him after the converter was replaced. He made a few adjustments and said that's the best he could do with it. It needs to idle at 1200 to keep from dropping too much in gear. In gear is about 600.

Blown86irocz28

Just out of curiousity, where do you have your timing set at?

lonesomeloser

To be honest, I didn't set the timing myself. The mechanic I drove the car to said 12 degrees if that makes sense. I know the timing was off before I brought it to him because the car had NO power and was running extremely hot. I haven't got the chance to really get onto the throttle much but the car runs cool now and has a quick throttle response. I didn't really hear what the mechanic said about the timing since he was too busy telling me my car is a piece of s#%t and that I should have gone with an LSX swap....

travis401

iTrader: (1)

12* inital souds about normal. invest in a cheap timing light.

just to be sure, this is the a non CC qjet and youre using a vacuum distributor correct? or are you running a stock CC qjet and distributor?

lonesomeloser

Non CC quadrajet. Vacuum adv dist.

Just to be clear on my specs: The engine is an '89 block, 355. Aluminum heads, 190cc runners, 64cc, 2.02/ 1.6. Cam is .230/.230, .480 lift, 108 LSA. Shorty headers, no cat, 3" single exhaust. Right now I have the stock intake manifold with the divider cut out. I know I could benefit from a better intake manifold but at the time I was on a very tight budget. I will upgrade at some point soon.

ex-x-fire

Have you loosened the screws on the choke & rotated it towards warmer?
Is the choke getting 12 volts?
Get a vacuum pump & test the pull off, it should hold vacuum.
Most times the idle screws should be turned out between 2-3 turns, that an average number.
Have you checked fuel pressure, q jets like a lower psi then holleys, around 3-4 psi if memory serves.
Make sure the vacuum advance canster holds vacuum & polls the advance mechanism. Same for the mechanical advance. Hook up a vacuum gauge to the engine, it should make pretty good vacuum w/ that cam, 17'' or more.

SDTransAM

iTrader: (5)

Having a carbed car is a lost art. People expect to turn the key and have it fire right up. Not saying you don't know how to warm it up, but it sounds like user error to me. Carb cars have a hard time in the cold. Sometime you have to keep on the throttle for a while to keep it running.

It sounds like it is flooded. Are you repeatedly pumping the gas trying to get it started? Pump it 3 times, then crank for about 5 seconds or so, pump 3 times and crank for about 5 seconds. It should have started by then, if not, keep repeating.

If it is flooded, hold the accelerator to the floor (DO NOT PUMP ACCELERATOR) and crank until it starts.

lonesomeloser

Cleaned all the plugs and finally got it started. I had to keep it at 2000 RPM so it wouldn't die. Let it run for a few minutes at 2000 RPM and slowly let off the throttle and it started sputtering like it was going to die, so I ran the RPM'S back up to 2000 for about 2 minutes, let off slowly and it sputtered and died. Tried to start it again and it wouldn't start without half throttle. Let off the throttle again and it died. It just won't idle at all.

Well, after letting it sit for a while, I got it to start. It reved up and idled back down to it's normal 1300 rpm. It's going to sit for a few more days and I'll try again. We'll see how it goes.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Vacuum leak?

travis401

iTrader: (1)

1300rpm isnt a normal idle. should be more like 800 in park...

lonesomeloser

1300 is the best we could do with it. I am not happy with that. I don't like to shut the car off at that rpm or drop it into gear, either.

I talked to the carb shop and he is offering me a great deal on a holley 750DP with a slightly used edelbrock rpm manifold. He will reimburse me for every cent I spent on the carb and apply it towards the Holley in his shop.

Awesome-X

I had a 355 with some 305 heads and headers and I got 26mpg highway with an Edelbrock 1406. I don't know if you're worried about gas mileage or not but that was the route I went and I was way more than satisfied since my Camaro was my DD.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

if its wont idle any lower than something isnt right. swapping carbs may fix it, it may not, depending on why it wont idle any lower.

lonesomeloser

I don't know if 600cfm will be enough. At this point, I don't care about gas mileage. I was at first, that's why I wanted to stick with the quadrajet. But now I'm over it.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

650 will feed a healthy 355

lonesomeloser

Chris, the car guy, thought the 750DP might help it idle better with the "bigger circuits" he said. It's worth a shot. He said if it doesn't work out then he will help me find one that does.

I have really low vacuum for some reason. The cam? We couldn't find any leaks.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

what cam is in the car?

lonesomeloser

Speed Pro brand, Super-Pro model .230/.230, .480 lift 108 LSA

http://www3.sympatico.ca/david.crooks/cam.PDF

travis401

iTrader: (1)

that cam wouldnt be causing a low vacuum

travis401

iTrader: (1)

how much vacuum are you getting at idle?

lonesomeloser

I don't know. If it's not the cam or a vacuum leak, what else could it be?

lonesomeloser

12-13"

DoubleV

What is your measured compression ratio? If it's too low and you have such a big cam, that's not a good combo and could cause a poor idle if your base timing is set too low. 12* base timing just may not be enough for a big cammed engine with ( possibly ) too loww a CR.

With your unusually high idle setting, you're already into the mechanical advance of the distributor right now. I would try advancing the base timing and see if you can get it to idle at a lower RPM.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

are you sure its not a vacuum leak? try filling a spray bottle with rubbing alcohol and spraying around various places on the engine like the intake/head joints and anywhere else theres a gasket surface. if the rpms increas a little while spraying, then you have a vacuum leak.

lonesomeloser

Compression ratio has not been measured, but per the engine builder, it should be 10.5-11:1. I've sprayed carb cleaner all around the engine and no changes. It dies when I cover the carb with my hand.

SDTransAM

iTrader: (5)

750 DP is going to be WAY more carb than you need!!! Are you sure the choke isn't stuck? If the choke is not closing when it's cold it would be hard to start and hard to idle when cold, or it's getting stuck closed, it would run like crap after it warms up.

Also, a Quadrajet carb is junk anyways. Get a good Edelbrock 600 cfm carb and be done. Sounds like you also need to switch "carb guru's" This guy you keep taking it too sounds like an Idiot!

ex-x-fire

Try advancing the timing, maybe your balancer has spund on the hub.
I'd pinch off or plug all vacuum hoses to see how it runs.

DoubleV

A Qjet is not junk. The Edelbrock is based off the carb the Qjet replaced. Why would they do that if the Qjet wasn't better?

But I really would rather not derail this thread, so my question above is more rhetorical....

SDTransAM

iTrader: (5)

I knew somebody was gonna say something about qjet not being junk, no they are fine if you have a stock engine. I don't even like them on my stock engine or my car at all. I say edelbrock because they are more of a performance orientated carb than a qjet and they are a bit easier to tune.

It still sounds like your chocke is stuck closed. High idle then floods out when itgets warm, OP have you done anything yet that has been suggested?

travis401

iTrader: (1)

edelbrocks are by far "easy to tune" they have nowhere near the tunability of the qjet or a holley carb. the edelbrock carbs are ment to be "take out of box and put on engine and go" kind of carb for the everyday joe who doesnt know how to tune a carb.

but i agree, its sounding like a choke issue.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Edelbrocks are for lazy people who dont want to tune and dont care that they have an ugly carburetor.


Also, if you have ac, pinch the vac line that goes to the firewall. The HVAC controls have vacuum going through them and are notorious for leaking.

lonesomeloser

I am getting ready to take the intake manifold off because it's leaking oil in the front and rear. I'll get to the other stuff as I progress and keep this thread updated.

SDTransAM

iTrader: (5)

I don't run an Edelbrock. So don't try and direct that towards me. I suggested that carb because it seems like this guy and his "carb guy" don't know what they are doing.

Awesome-X

And I suggested it because I got awesome gas mileage and decent power out of it. A good combination with the price of gas these days imo.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I wasnt trying to imply anything about you. I'd recommend edelbrocks to some people too for the same reasons.

SDTransAM

iTrader: (5)

Ok that's exactly why I suggested it also. Ease of use, Simplicity, reliability.

People with Carb'd engines should know how to tune them, especially if they drive them all the time since they change so much depending on the weather.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Quadrajets are great carbs IF IF IF you take the time to learn about them.
Ive seen them go 8s in quarter then be driven home. You need a new carb guy 4 sure. Sounds like a dumbazz 2 me.

travis401

iTrader: (1)

a carb is only as good as the person tuning it. the fact that the carb guy said 1300 rpm curb idle is as good as its gonna get says hes not that good at all. and the fact that he told you to wedge the choke open with a screw driver because he thought the engine was flooded points that out even more.

LarryL

I have been playing with Qjets since late 60"s(I not an expert). If you set them up right they are a great carb. There is one big problem that most guys (younger) don't fix. If you remove the carb and look between the two smaller flaps(the primary on the botton of carb) you will see two holes(close to square) about 1 inch big. This is where you see little cap in there, they bleed gas as carb gets older. I have seen new ones bleeding. When car is shut off they bleed down into intake and cause car to flood, when running (if you can get to run) the car will have high idle and idle will not be smooth. You should get some epoxy (2 part) and fill in these square holes. The rebuild kits come with 2 foam blocks that are useless at stopping this problem. Look for the foam blocks if you don't see holes. A carb should should start a car with one hit of the gas which sets choke and primes engine, if the car is run everyday.
Just my 2 cents worth. Hope it helps.