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I recieved the car today and so far have found the following issues
ripped drivers seat
crack in windshield
crack in dashpad
hole in sail panel fabric
burn in drivers side arm rest
rear hatch motor hanging by the wires
chip in the pain on nose
4 foot scratch along the passenger GFX
scratch on rear quarter panel
paint chipping off the cowl area at bottom of windshield
wiper has scratched the windshield
hood and hatch struts dont work at all
underhood light bulb smashed
carpet is stained and filthy
tires are 14 years old and worn out
1991 Z28 Camaro 5.7 TPI hard top. Just over 50k original miles and 2nd owner. All around this car is immaculate with zero issues at all. A/C blows ice cold, leather seats are flawless, dash/interior are in perfect shape with no cracks or fading, and overall the Camaro runs like new. Garaged since the day it left the Chevrolet dealership in 1991 with limited adult driving. This thing has been cared for like a baby, and it shows.
This is my dads Camaro, just helping him out with the sale. I have access to the Camaro at any time, so please let me know if you have any further questions or would like additional photos. As we all know, third gen. Camaros are becoming more and more sought after and value is rising and will only keep going up. This Z28 is perfect for any collector, or "muscle car/street car" enthusiast. Very comfortable to ride in with the power and performance to make any drive enjoyable.
notice the description of the car as being flawless. His response to this was it was flawless in his eyes considering how old the car was and he clearly thinks that he didnt deceive me or any other potential buyer here.
I will wait for him to comment here to defend himself.
That car is not "flawless", sadly. I do see the dash crack in the preview pictures, but the front seat definitely was missed in the photos. The paint issue with the emblem is somewhat noticeable in the preview pictures too, but barely. I am surprised more detailed pictures were not provided prior to sale. Did you ask for more?
Car was painted at Maaco. I just found this out by speaking on the phone with this guy and his dad. They both apologized for all this but sadly, making it right with a partial refund is not happening.
I have to eat all these repairs now. Windshield, hatch motor, and dash pad alone will be over $1,000. I figure the paint will last about 2-3 years before it starts failing.
Last edited by BOTTLEDZ28; 03-04-2016 at 09:51 AM.
Amazing what people consider excellent condition. Was helping my daughter buy a car a few years back and had one guy chew me out after he asked me what I thought. Said it wasn't in good as condition as I had hoped. He nearly lost it! Arguing with me that it was perfect. Face to face. I don't know how he thought that would make the sale
"leather seats are flawless, dash/interior are in perfect shape with no cracks or fading"
"like new condition"
"Every single thing works"
But it is ALWAYS BUYER BEWARE. Before handing out $9,000 I would have asked for 100+ hi res pictures of detailed parts, video of car inside and out. Maybe even posted on here to see if any local guys to the seller could go check the car out.
Not sure what the shipping fee costed you but a one way plane ticket is like $500. I think I would have made a long weekend out of it. Took a couple days off work, Caught a flight to the seller fri. eve, checked car out in person and drove it home if I bought it. That would have been about $1,200 with the flight, gas, motel, food, etc.
Might have been a 4 or 5 day ordeal.
But no real reason to talk about shoulda, woulda, coulda now.
Fact of the matter is the seller lied about the condition
"leather seats are flawless, dash/interior are in perfect shape with no cracks or fading"
"like new condition"
"Every single thing works"
But it is ALWAYS BUYER BEWARE. Before handing out $9,000 I would have asked for 100+ hi res pictures of detailed parts, video of car inside and out. Maybe even posted on here to see if any local guys to the seller could go check the car out.
Not sure what the shipping fee costed you but a one way plane ticket is like $500. I think I would have made a long weekend out of it. Took a couple days off work, Caught a flight to the seller fri. eve, checked car out in person and drove it home if I bought it. That would have been about $1,200 with the flight, gas, motel, food, etc.
Might have been a 4 or 5 day ordeal.
But no real reason to talk about shoulda, woulda, coulda now.
Fact of the matter is the seller lied about the condition
The car was 2100 miles away and it's winter from point A to point B. No way was I driving that from Idaho to Mass.
I tried and tried to get this guy to send me more pics but he said he worked a lot and the car was at his dad's. My fault for using his description and pictures he did send me as proof of the cars condition
Right now I just so sick to my stomach about this whole thing that I don't even want to look at the car, let alone wash it. I just want the members here to know how this went down in case he sells anything else on here claiming its flawless and in perfect condition. Apparently he doesn't know the definition of flawless.
John, if you're reading this and you really want to make this right and feel better about all this then refunding me $1000 to cover the cost of the hatch motor, dash pad, paint repair on nose and windshield would be adult thing to do here. Just because we had a little phone call about this doesn't mean I'm fine with how this went down and at ease with everything. I'm still extremely pi$$ed off and disappointed in you for how you acted in our text conversation.
Make this right John. You have my address. My paypal is bottledz28@aol.com
That's disappointing but all easily fixed with a little time & money.
I've bought a lot of cars sight unseen, and as far away as Idaho & California. I try to get the best description I can but have always felt that the cost in time & money of me not going out to inspect it myself, was usually more than whatever expectations failed in the transaction.
In this case however, it would appear the description was intentionally inaccurate in an effort to hide the flaws & get the car sold. The right thing would be for the seller to stand up and make the adjustment here.
I hate that man. I drove 2 hrs a few years ago to look a car that was described as flawless also and when I got there it was an imposter GTA with a L03 he had described as a hi-performance 350.It ran like sh%# It leaked around doors, T-tops, you name it. Pictures looked good on net but boy when I got there..I told him his 5k car was worth 1k.Cant believe how some people can be so dishonest. I hope you get some of your $ refunded where you can fix yours up man I do.
I bought a car from a member on here sight unseen. I had him crawl around underneath it with -7 degree temperatures outside with a video camera! Also asked for a buttload of pictures and video's of the car, thorough explanation of everything that I asked about, and numerous phone conversations before the deal was made. I felt good about and so did he.
He helped ready the car for shipping and off it went.
The car arrived as presented in the description.
Was I worried? No. It comes down to integrity and trust.......some people have it, some don't. I don't know how some people sleep at night.
Sorry you ended up in this situation. That's a lot of cash.The car was NOT represented as in the ad.
I hope he makes it right; it would be the best thing for him to do.
Wow. I try not to post on threads like this, BUT it was very misrepresented.
The seller should literally be ashamed of this deal.
He obviously took the pictures in the best possible way and neglected to talk about the issues with the car. The hood blisters, dash pad, seat, and horrible crappy Maaco paint job should of been disclosed immediately!
Sorry, but it can all be fixed. the worst part, IMO is the pain job. The emblems having overspray and the faded turn signals look much older than a 50k always garaged 1991 Z28....
The hatch motor can be replaced. The sail panel and drivers arm rest can be replaced. The windshield can be replaced but right now the worse part of the car is the paint. You can literally see all the sand marks through the paint. Maaco did a terrible job on this car and their masking skills look like a 5 year did it. They didnt take any care in masking the weather stripping around the windshield and the clearcoat is just slightly overlapping on the weather stripping. When its pulled off to replace the windshield, it will chip the clearcoat which will now be the beginning of continued chipping as the car is driven. The paint on the front bumper is also already flaking off around the emblem and we all know what these bumpers look like when the paint isnt applied correctly. The paint spider webs and flakes off and looks like crap within a year or two.
Hopefully I can have the car detailed inside and out and get the carpets shampooed to remove all the spilled coffee, candy, cigarette ash etc.
I havent even been able to take the car for a ride yet so who knows whats going on with the drivetrain. Seller states it rides like a Caddy and is 100% but I cant believe that now knowing how he described the rest of the car. I cant drive the car because the hatch wont latch down. It will slowly open on it owns unless I climb back there and somehow tie it down.
The seller isnt a regular here so I highly doubt he will chime in on this. We have had a long text conversation and a phone call and all I can get out of him now is an apology. To me, that dont cut it here.
When asked about the front bumper having a chip in it, his response was "not that Im aware of". He also stated that he "may not have noticed every single little thing on the car".
He says that he "can see you are the type of person that can probably never be pleased no matter what the circumstances are".
He claims the car "was amazing all around to his standards".
He told me that I was just whining and venting about stupid little things that are normal for a 25 year old car with 50K miles on it. He said I need to seek help from a professional and that I have issues he can help me with. He said I am a pissed off at the world type of person.
He says " Its an F**King $9K purchase that you arent happy with. Its not the end of the world. Please please seek help man. Im fed up though. You are sad about your f**king life and taking it out on whoever else you can".
Also says " I can already tell you are a dweller kind who feels sorry for himself. How about you go and do something productive and fix these issues then rather sit and dwell and cry over your purchase you dont like. Im fed up. Theres nothing I can do to fix your problems".
Did I mention the fact that I cant even get a Mass. inspection sticker until I replace the windshield? I also have 7 days from the day I registered it( 2/29) to get the sticker or the registry can revoke the plates which will cancel the insurance! The tires are 14 years old ( I found the slip for them in the console). They are worn out and dry rotted and wont pass the safety inspection either and I cant even get the wheels off to replace the tires because the seller didnt provide me with the key for locks on the wheels!!!!!!
Not the worse thing at the point but its just one more thing that aggravates me.
I cant for the life of me figure out how a seller, who just got $9K for a car, cant take $100 of it and buy new hood and hatch struts and vacuum the interior out. Maybe toss an air freshener in there or something. Maybe take just a little bit of time cleaning all the crap out of the interior. Maybe even putting $10 in gas in it. Nope, the needle was below E. I wont even make it to the gas station so now I have to go fill up a 5 gallon gas can and come back home and fill it the tank that way. There was absolutely no effort put into preparing this car for me and I wouldnt expect there to be if I paid $900 for it but I paid $9,000!!! Like seriously dude. spend a couple dollars and put some new hood struts in. Now I have to go buy some just so I can keep the hood open while I replace the DEAD battery that wont hold a charge!!!!
The hit just keep on coming here. My luck, the transmission was throw up withing the first 30 days I drive.
I'm not a lawsuit type a person, but I sure would look into it. Total Misrepresentation.
Save the ad and all correspondence between you two. You might need it.
I wouldn't be surprised if the car didn't run "like a Cadillac."
Man, this is beyond bad.
I'm not a lawsuit type a person, but I sure would look into it. Total Misrepresentation.
Save the ad and all correspondence between you two. You might need it.
I wouldn't be surprised if the car didn't run "like a Cadillac."
Man, this is beyond bad.
I can actually agree. This is debatable worth it for that unless he helps you out in some way.
Problem with taking legal action here is the cost associated with hiring an attorney just to try and collect what I feel is owed to me. Then comes the fact that I will most likely have to fly out to Idaho to go to court which will cost me more money and time out of work. I'll end up spending more money than what I will get back, if I even won the case.
gt4373, the car is filthy. Its covered in road salt, dirt, sand, etc. I cant wash the car until I fix the hatch. I wont wash the car in the driveway here since it about 20 degrees out.
Sorry this happened to you man. This is not right, if this were on ebay it would be a not as described item and ebay would rule in your favor. I didnt see a sold as-is in the post, was there a written bill of sale? If it arrived from the shipper like it was i wouldnt take delivery and have it sent back. I wouldnt title it either; im commenting because i have bought a car off ebay from out of state. The car went unsold and i contacted the seller, we then spoke on the phone and i asked about the car. We came to an agreement that we would split the shipping costs and i would send him half the money for the car. When the car arrived if i didnt like it i could send it back, get my money back and be out the shipping. The situation does come down to integrity as someone mentioned above and this isnt it. Those pictures go out of their way to be deceiving, sorry again man.
Can one of you guys tell me if the front seat should fold forward just by pushing them torwards the dash or should the little black lever be pushed up slightly in order for the seat to be folded forward so someone can gain access to the rear seat area..
I ask because these seats just go forward simply by pushing on them. I can manually adjust the upright position of the back section by lifting the horizontal lever slightly while putting the back section where I want it. It will lock in place so that it doesnt fall all the way back but it will go forward on it own.
Are both of the seats broke or is this how they work? If this is how they work then what is the purpose of the little black lever on the side of the back section near the seatbelt mount on the floor
Nevermind, found my answer. I guess Im just hunting for things wrong now, which I think I have a right to do. I appreciate all the opinions and feedback guys. ive been a member here a LONG time and have only been screwed over one other time and that was for $1,000. I took a 400 mile drive to the guys house and had a nice conversation with his dad and the police. A few weeks later, I got my money back after pressing fraud charges. This vehicle purchase just makes me not trust anyone now. I would never ever do this to someone as I know what it feels like to be screwed over. Im just venting my frustrations here and making all the members aware of how this went down so it can hopefully teach others what to look for when doing out of state transactions like I did.
Last edited by BOTTLEDZ28; 03-04-2016 at 01:04 PM.
I know it doesn't make you feel better but when I purchased my TTA, I went on a whirlwind tour of over 1800 mile round trip to personally check it out. I was satisfied after all of the checkouts were complete. After delivery, I discovered a few items I had missed; nothing big, but missed. I took care of them and moved forward.
You just never can tell. I hope you get some satisfaction in the long run. Best of luck, hang in there.
PS: Yes the seats just move forward like you mention. All 3 of mine do. My 2000's don't, you have to pull the lever to move the backs forward.
There is a lesson to be learned here. You said you asked for more pics and all you got an excuse on why he could not take the pics. RED FLAG. You are about to pay top dollar for something, The seller is going to get top dollar and he can't take 10 min. to snap some pics? Walk away from the deal or negotiate a lower price period!
I purchased my z 4 hrs away from my home. CL ad, I asked for more pics and the guy linked me to his personal page where he had 30+ Hi res photos of the car(this guy was proud of his cars)I was able to see 90% of all the flaws. There were seat covers on and I asked him to take them off and take pics, which he did. He was asking a high price on the car and we negotiated a lower price over the phone.
Chaz is right, the pics will always look better than in person, we need to realize that when buying a car long distance.
I think at this point we know the seller is a LOSER SH!#@%EAD! and karma will come around and take care of him.
I know you are mad, and you should be, but IMHO if you really like and want the car I would just put this behind you and start to fix the car and move forward, as another poster said "it is just time and money" and if it is something you love, giving both should not be an issue.
There is a lesson to be learned here. You said you asked for more pics and all you got an excuse on why he could not take the pics. RED FLAG. You are about to pay top dollar for something, The seller is going to get top dollar and he can't take 10 min. to snap some pics? Walk away from the deal or negotiate a lower price period!
I purchased my z 4 hrs away from my home. CL ad, I asked for more pics and the guy linked me to his personal page where he had 30+ Hi res photos of the car(this guy was proud of his cars)I was able to see 90% of all the flaws. There were seat covers on and I asked him to take them off and take pics, which he did. He was asking a high price on the car and we negotiated a lower price over the phone.
Chaz is right, the pics will always look better than in person, we need to realize that when buying a car long distance.
I think at this point we know the seller is a LOSER SH!#@%EAD! and karma will come around and take care of him.
I know you are mad, and you should be, but IMHO if you really like and want the car I would just put this behind you and start to fix the car and move forward, as another poster said "it is just time and money" and if it is something you love, giving both should not be an issue.
You're right. I take a little blame for this happening and will learn from this experience. I guess I was just super excited about finding a white hardtop 91-92 car.
I will begin fixing the car soon. I just need to get out of this emotional slump I'm in with this purchase.
I will start a build thread on this car but I need to give it a name. I'll think of something.
You're right. I take a little blame for this happening and will learn from this experience. I guess I was just super excited about finding a white hardtop 91-92 car.
I will begin fixing the car soon. I just need to get out of this emotional slump I'm in with this purchase.
I will start a build thread on this car but I need to give it a name. I'll think of something.
Yup, at this point it's probably best to take your lumps, chalk it up to experience, roll up your sleeves and fix it.
Finally got the car out of the garage today to go get it washed and put some fresh fuel in it. Got 3 miles down the road and the check engine light came !!! Code 32 faulty EGR system. Awesome!
Last update on this unless John Adams comes in to try and defend himself. Both him and his dad have admitted that I paid to much for the car but are refusing to make this right and have refused to refund me the $1,000 I asked for. They said a deal is deal and that's that. They both apologized to me on the phone the other night and felt that that was all that was needed. They are both scumbags and I will make sure that this member does not sell anything to anyone else here ever again.
John, if you feel you are justified in your actions over this transaction then by all means, chime in here.
I would see lawyer even just to have papers sent about taking further actions if agreement isn't ment I know it's a pain and cost $ but sometimes u have to do it just to sleep better at night knowing they they got a punch back,what want to know is what wld he have said if someone came in person to see it after saying it's a mint car. start a go fund me account for legal needs I would donate
I will most definitely share and explain myself with this entire transaction after everything is settled. I have no problem sharing every single email that was sent from start to finish.
I'm dealing with harassment, and threats by Brad at the moment after asking him kindly to not contact me anymore multiple times. I'm going to reach out to a moderator first, before I share my side of the story. I will be forwarding the emails from the first time Brad came to me about the camaro, to the threats, name calling, and harassment. Once everything on that end gets settled, I will absolutely give every single detail about this transaction, even screen shot and share the emails and texts right here on this thread.
Me and my father did no wrong with this deal, and I absolutely will share everything that happened and was said after everything is legally settled and finished with this. Brad is a very difficult person to try and reason with. When I share the emails, everyone will be able to see this.
I'm 100% comfortable and confident sharing every single aspect of our transaction from start to finish after all legal actions are settled and finished.
Brad, please do not contact me from here either please. Again, as I've stated if contact is needed for legal reasons, please have a representative contact me. I will do the same.
I forgot to ad in my last response that myself nor my father never once said anything to Brad admitting he paid too much. Absolutely without a doubt did we ever say anything even close to that. Once everything is fully shared for everyone to see and read, it will not show anywhere what so ever in texts or emails that anything like that was said. There is a lot of foul language and swear words in the recent emails I've gotten from him so I'll need to edit that, before sharing publicly.
We fully intended Brad to love the Camaro like we did every day we owned it. The fact I provided Brad with my bank account and routing number so money could be wired showed I was once very trusting towards him as a person and felt very comfortable about the deal. If I were out to rip anyone off like this, the last thing I would ever do is give my bank account info like that. I've never given that out to anyone.
I look forward to explaining every single detail about the transaction once all is fully settled. I've noticed the things Brad describes and states are very exaggerated and nothing close to reality of whats being said. The emails and texts will show everything. Anyone who knows my father or myself would vouch for us both, that we are very honest and up front people. This whole entire thing is very unfortunate. Being my first out of state transaction with our only communication being through text and email. I would have loved if Brad could have made it here to see and drive the camaro in person before proceeding with the purchase.
you don't need to share every trans action detail just you saying the real condition of the car ie windshield cracked complete noticeable messed up seat u were clearing hidding in all your pics saying the car is mint and him saying that's ok I can deal with that.and well say oh ok well what is he complaining about then untill then u and ur dad just look like shady ripp offs
Again, I will explain my side of the story from start to finish when all is settled. By no means are we shady people. I was every bit cooperative with Brad throughout the entire transaction. There was a lot of interest in the car when Brad first came to be about it. 2 different guys were ready to fly out to look at it in person and guarantee the sale by paying a deposit. I made sure Brad was first priority though since he was the first actual interested buyer. He was adamant that I did not sell the camaro to anyone else no matter what and paid $1000 deposit to lock it down. That was after I sent him screen shots of some of the other people interested email responses. I was NOT a "must sell" and there was no hurry at all to sell the camaro. We by no means are people out to rip anyone off with anything. Ever. I just wish Brad could have found a way to see it and drive it in person before he made his decision. We were not hiding a single thing with anything about the car. Everything will come out soon to support my statement. I did everything Brad asked from me.
Because of the harassment and threats from Brad I would like to wait until legal proceedings are finished before I say more. After that I will fully give my side of the story and answer all questions that may be asked.
found a moldy pack of gum melted to the rug under the drivers seat. it should be fun trying to get the gum out of the seat track!
One of the hood struts was secured in place with a tie wire!! This shows the lack of care taken with this car. Claimed it was treated like his baby though
tabs on fuse cover panel are broken. flawless interior though
left front wheel has curb rash around 1/4 of the wheel!! Immaculate condition though
Did I mention that I was sent a car that didnt have the lock for wheels?? No biggie right??
The more I look at this car, the more issues I find. The car wasnt taken care of at all. Your father smoked in it and used the floor as an astray. I told you on the phone that 4 injectors were replaced at some point in the cars passed and you sounded surprised and didnt know yet I found the shop receipt for the repairs and the date on it was AFTER your original for sale posting so that tells me you DID know about the injector job and lied to me about not knowing about. Why lie about it? I dont get the point in even lying about not knowing. I dont care that the injectors were replaced. What ticks me off if you lied to me about something that wasnt even that important.
Last edited by BOTTLEDZ28; 03-05-2016 at 09:05 PM.
That was not interpreted correct by Brad. I was only stating that I was sorry he wasn't happy about the purchase and that he felt he himself overpaid. I do not feel the price wasn't fair by any means.
That was not interpreted correct by Brad. I was only stating that I was sorry he wasn't happy about the purchase and that he felt he himself overpaid. I do not feel the price wasn't fair by any means.
Please share with the members here the other camaros that you sent me that you feel are in the same league as this one so they can try to see where you think this car was worth what I paid for it based off of your description. Remember that this car now sports a MAACO paint job, which brings the value DOWN
The overpaying is actually a grammatical misunderstanding. Black1LE meant that bottledz28 felt that bottledz28 overpayed. Everyone has a different idea of perfect and a lot of people hide stuff to sell things which is messed up. The guy I got my car from did not say a thing about it needing a new floor, he only said it needed paint and interior. But that was only $1200. For $9000, I think bottledz28 should have been smarter about spending that kind of money. From my point of view that is a $6000 car at most. As for black1le you did misrepresent the car and hide things I'm sure you knew about, but yeah after 25 years cars aren't perfect. What you both need to understand is that there is no point arguing and going back in forth. Black1le- you should have been more honest to prevent this all from happening. BottledZ28- you should know that there is no way you will get any money back unless you go to court, which also makes no financial sense. It's done, you paid too much and could have been smarter, and black1le should have been more upfront, you can't sell that kind of car for that kind of money and not expect something to go wrong
The overpaying is actually a grammatical misunderstanding. Black1LE meant that bottledz28 felt that bottledz28 overpayed. Everyone has a different idea of perfect and a lot of people hide stuff to sell things which is messed up. The guy I got my car from did not say a thing about it needing a new floor, he only said it needed paint and interior. But that was only $1200. For $9000, I think bottledz28 should have been smarter about spending that kind of money. From my point of view that is a $6000 car at most. As for black1le you did misrepresent the car and hide things I'm sure you knew about, but yeah after 25 years cars aren't perfect. What you both need to understand is that there is no point arguing and going back in forth. Black1le- you should have been more honest to prevent this all from happening. BottledZ28- you should know that there is no way you will get any money back unless you go to court, which also makes no financial sense. It's done, you paid too much and could have been smarter, and black1le should have been more upfront, you can't sell that kind of car for that kind of money and not expect something to go wrong
Ya, I take some blame for this happening. I should have asked more questions. My bad for that. John was still shaddy and mislead potential buyers. he claims the car would have sold no matter what. What he doesnt understand is that if I didnt buy it, he would be dealing with this same stuff with whoever did buy it. Either way John, whoever bought the car from you would have been just as ticked off as I am now. I know Im not getting a dime back for this and Im sure both you and dad are laughing at all this but like I told you before, Karma will find you guys one day. I would never ever ever do this to someone. I couldnt sleep well at night if I did something like this. The fact that you and your dad can just shows everyone what kind of people you are. Thank you for selling me a $9K project car that wont pass a safety inspection here until I replace the windshield and tires.
Maybe even putting $10 in gas in it. Nope, the needle was below E. I wont even make it to the gas station so now I have to go fill up a 5 gallon gas can and come back home and fill it the tank that way.
I can't defend anything else, except maybe on the gas issue; The low gas level may have been a requirement for shipping... The hauler would want as little gas as possible to reduce their risk of a fire, or limit the scope if an accident occurred.
Sucks to be the receiver on a bad deal. Don't forget to give him appropriate feedback (click the (0) in his info). At some point it is time to look forward and move on.
How many more setbacks can one car give someone!!!
Went out today with a fresh mind and noticed antifreeze on the floor!!! Started looking closer at the rug and noticed that there was coolant stains so the previous owner knew the heater core had a leak but felt it wasnt important to tell me.
This guy told me he also sells houses. hahahahahaha. I wouldnt buy money from this guy!!!
An unintended project is still a project none the less. Looking forward to the car being treated correctly.
A build thread is in the works. I have plans for the car now that its not all original and immaculate. I planned on keeping this car stock but the crappy paint job has ruined it value so lets the mods begin!!
03-03-2016, 08:52 PM
