How many of you converted? Does it cool better than R-12?? Do any of you wish to go back to R12?? How much does it cost to evacuate the R12??

Right now, my a/c gets warm if I'm idling at a light, below 1200 RPM. If i stick it in neutral, I can rev and stay cool. I had to do that a lot today, it was around 103.

Thanx

 

R12 works much better.
My friend at the dealership was gonna convert my car and his, but after he took the AC Class, he decided to stick with R12 and advised me to do the same.
The new refrigerant is cheaper, but more likely to leak as the molecules are smaller.
Converting is cheap if you just change the seals and oil, but hoses need to be in top shape or they'll leak.
My 2 Cents...
-Rich-

 

R12 is better but it will burn a hole in the ozone, and that's why it's no longer used. Around here its illegal to refill a R12 system.

 

I bet its illegal here in so-cal too. The condition that I have when it gets hot @ low RPMs is a sign of low freon, right guys??

 

I dont know much about a/c but i think when low on freon the compressor clicks on and off, i would not run the a/c untill you refill because i have heard it will wear out the clutch in the compressor and maybe even the compressor itself.

 

Isn't it funny how right about the same time that DUPONT's patent on R12 Expires, DUPONT decided it was bad and no one should use it? What a coincidence, DUPONT just happens to have some R134 right here on the shelf along with a shiny new patent.

EDIT: If you like that one, wait till you hear my theory on how the government kindapped Elvis using Bigfoots UFO.

 

Didn't the US government also decide that it was bad for the environment in 93?

 

well i hear R-12 can be pretty damaging. thus R-134

 

Yeah the freon molecules attatch themselves to the ozone particles causing them to fall out. Thus no ozone.

 

even though r-12 acts as a catalist for 03 destruction. It still kicks a$$. Many times better than r-134. My skin might be peeling off form the uv's and my tires rot out in seconds but at least its nice and cold in the car!

 

a bit off topic, and quite random, but a single volcano eruption does more damage to the ozone than mankind has ever done, or will probably ever do in the next few hundred years.. so in the grand scope of things, r12 isnt really significant enough to matter..

 

not to start a whole bs post-a-thon but the r-12 issue is quite significant because the chlorine acts as a catalyst and is not consumed in the reaction and it can remain aloft for hundrends of years, destroying 03 the whole time

 

EXACTLY, and why do you think I want to KEEP my R12 IN my car, not in some canister on a shelf or in a hole . I've got a free connection to FREE R12 because it's still used on huge AC systems on buildings (summer job, learned a lot).
I think it's still a good idea to check for leaks and replace seals then fill it up with whatever is cheaper. It just so happens to be the newer stuff. Trust me, both work and both work well enough that you won't notice too much of a difference. Well, let me take that back. You will notice a difference if you run the a/c on high and full cool. There might be a 5 degree temp difference but dude, the difference between 55 and 60 inside car temp compared to 90+ outside is nothin.

 

Yeah and it attaches itself to the ozone molecules. I watched a video in my physics class....I did pick up some of the info in between dozing off.

 

Funny though, If you were ever to evac dyed R-12 "improperly of course" The gas has more of a tendensy to go straight to the ground and stay there.

R134a is fine for cooling it just nobody retrofits/charges the systems correctly especially do it yourselfers. How many people have a vacuum pump for sucking the air out of the system? If you change refrigerant make sure the system is clean"flush it", if possible get the rubber lines re-clamped, replace the seals and get all the air out of the system. If you do all this you will not be able to tell the difference between the two refrigerants at all.

 

Since I was doing a motor swap and a serpentine conversion, I decided to switch to R134a. My old condensor was about 20% blocked by bent fins, and did not work well.

With the serpentine conversion it was necessary to get a new compressor and lines, so I also sprang for a new accumulator and orifice tube along with a new stock style condensor. I also purchased the "conversion" kit which comes with new fittings and schraeder valves (you dont HAVE to change them, but I had a set of 134a gauges I could use).

After blowing out the remaining lines to remove as much oil as possible and changing all the o-rings on the hard lines, I added oil to the compressor and accumulator, vacuumed the system down and filled with 134a.

It was 111 today, and while driving down the road, the air coming out of my AC was 39*.. that is great IMO. After idling at a stoplight in traffic waiting for a train, the temp only went up 6 degrees to about 45. Still good in the desert heat.

Conclusion: when done correctly, r134a systems work as well as r12 systems. r134a is much cheaper than r12, and you dont have to have a card to by r134a (yet). As stated above...if you have old hoses, replace them... they may leak with the 134a

 

Hey, Mike,

I use your parts cat. CD all the time (everyone should have one). I'm having trouble with my 134 conversion. What condenser did you put on? Stock fit? Any info would be great.

JamesC

 

"Still good in the desert heat."


another tidbit for those living near the coast with high humidity hot days. Condnsing out all that water takes alot of energy and will raise the temp of the air coming in...

 

In So Cal it is not illegal to recharge an R-12 system. It is illegal however to produce or import R-12 into the state. So whats left of R-12 in the state you can use but after that it is over. There is always R-12 alternative. Thats what I am looking into.

 

as far as an r-12 replacement, I found this site, http://www.freeze-12.com/

I have heard about this from some other posts and went looking. Looks pretty intertesting and less expensive than a retrofit kit, or an hard to find r-12 recharge.

anyone have any experience with this stuff?

 

I just converted my system in my 86 LG4 to R134. New compressor, accumulator, and orifice tube from Team Chevrolet, New hose set from Carparts.com, new green O-rings, 134A conversion kit, and refrigerant from Pep Boys, AC system flush from Napa, and venturii type vaccum pump from Harbor Freight tools.

All in all, I've got around $700 in my system, but I have the tools to do the rest of my three cars correctly now. Some say that vaccum pump is no good, but it got mine down to 29" no problem. It's loud as hell though so wear earplugs!

After filling I get around 37* coming out the vents. I do have an issue in low speed traffic (stop and go for more than 20 minutes) where the AC temp starts to rise. This isn't anything some LT1/LS1 fans probably couldn't cure though. Seems to be an issue with air flow to the condenser.

GP

 

It's getting hot here in So-Cal, and I just found this old post. I also have that problem where I'm stopped at a light, and the A/C gets warmer. Why does the compressor shut off when in Drive or Neutral, but not in Park??? It works GREAT in park! But when I slow down, it changes about 10 degrees... not too nice while waiting at a light, or trying to make a left turn on a busy intersection... Is there anyway to fix that?

OH and how do you KNOW that you're low on R-12, is there some way you can put a gauge on there?

 

If you have a 12 system as long as you can recharge with it use it. 134A is a pain all around. You need new barrier type hoses, O rings and a different orifice tube. And you will still lose up to a half pound/yr depending on how tight the system is. 12 boils at -21.7F, 134a at -15.07 which is significant. A converted 12 system will not cool as well with 134. 134 or Suva systems have a more robust compressor, a problem when converting. Problem with auto A/C systems is this, due to normal engine vibration and thermal changes the refrigerant is lost faster escaping into the atmosphere. How often does a refrigerator need a charge? Almost never because all the lines are crimped then permanently sealed. Thats why cars were hit first with the non CFC requirements. That and the fact that when they were junked the A/C was not evacuated and recovered. It is still cheaper and better to fill with 12 than to convert an old system. I went 11 yrs on my original 12 charge, my Blazer(98) with 134 just took almost 2lbs and no leak could be detected. I paid 80 bucks for under a pound of 12 but considering the cost of conversion it was still a bargain.

 

I use a propane/butane mix in my a/c system. There is no laws saying that I cant vent it to the atmosphere and I think that it works better than R-134. I used R-134 for a few months before I switched to propane and the propane works better. With the propane the compressor is not as noisy eather. This will be my 3rd south Texas summer with propane and I have no complaints.

 

its amazing the ammount of experimenting people have been doing since the chlorine based refrigerents have been phased out. It seems like just about everything seems to work a little better then r-134. Ill say one thing, the r-134 in my parents car is for the birds. Even good ol' fashioned sweat seems to do a better job.

 

2 of my GM cars have 134, they cool well enough. A 134 designed system will perform well especially the GM vehicles as they traditionally have always had great A/C. Mighty Mouse, you better hope you never light up a havana with a leaky evaporator. Saw a demo tape at a Chrysler dealer about the refrigerants you talk about, the roof blew right off.

 

Im in the HVAC eild so my partner was more than kind enough to let me use his 30lb jug-o-12. I put just over 2 lbs in my 91, it was totally flat. The car cooled great. My g/f said it gets too cold. I also found an alternative. Perks of the job. I used hotshot in my friends 86 vette, and his sunfire. i looked at the charts and it is the same exact pressures for r-12. And for a 10 oz can, it was $12
It said there was no need to change the oil, just evacuate and drop it in. He loved it all summer, had 40 degree air comming out on a 95+ degree day sitting at idle for 20 minutes. When the 91 runs flat on 12 again, im gonna go to that, mainly cause i got a 25lb can in the garage.

 

Cool. What a way to go, I hope it happens while I am sitting in traffic. Crusing along at 70 mph and having the car explode would be cool to. As long as I am not at work or on the way to work.

 

i dont think it woudl be that much of a problem in a car. As for using that in a house, thats a different story. Having a leaky evapoator fill the house with 10 or so lbs of flammable gas could be quite dangerous.

 

hey guys

MY old 1988 maro has got the same 12 in it as hte day from the factory. works great too gets down to 40 on the highway and about 45-46 in town traffic.

I agree with ya about a designed 134a system works good. my 94 z71 2500 has it 134a but i have to have it topped off every yr and no one can find the leak.

I have been told that the reason 134a has more problems about leaking than r12 is because the molecule that it is made of is alot smaller in size thus making it easier to leak.

MY friend believes in the freeze 12 stuff he had his car filled with it and yes it cools just as well as my camaro does. but like someone said earlier in the post what about a leak?

 

There's a few things that can go wrong with switching from an R-12 to a R-134. The major issue that tends to happen is the amount that actually is used. Since R-134 is kept at a higher pressure, you don't need as much. Therefore you should only use about 80-85% of the amount of R-12 that your car says to use. Some people don't do this and actually fill it completely to the same specs and the high pressure actually starts to tear away your o-rings causing leaks and screwing up your AC. If you are definitely planning on switching over, there is one big thing you should know. Whoever is taking your R-12 is going to be making money from that. They recycle the R-12 for some good loot. A good thing to ask them would be if they could give you a discount since they'll make some more money off it anyway. Also, a BIG problem is to always hook up your recharge or refill cans up to the low pressure side on the condenser. Do NOT try to hook it up to the high pressure....very very bad.

 

I converted my system over, but I have a question... Is it suppose to take a while for the can of 134 to enter the system? I hooked up to the low side port and held the can in place for about 2 minutes. When I detached it from the port it was still about half full. I was thinking that should flow right in just like pouring motor oil. Is it suppose to transfer quickly? Or does it take a bit of time?

 

Depends on what kind of brand you've used. I'm guessing it's the kind where you screw the piece on the top of the can and then twist the **** to puncture the can. When you do that you have to make sure you unscrew the **** again so it can flow freely, otherwise it won't come out. Shouldn't take too long for it to flow on out, that can is under a good deal of pressure.

 

also, did you have the car running with the a/c on?, if not, you need to , it also helps to hold the can with the tap at the bottom and to hold it in your hands, try to keep it warm, it keeps the pressure up and the can empties faster

 

I was holding it upside down. In my hands, but I had gloves on if that matters. Something happened when I tried it today. Oh... BTW... yes, it is the setup with that gauge that screws onto the can. Anyhoo... I hooked it up and started to open the value. When I opened it fully... the pressure shot up to 120 (yes I had it hooked up to the low side and yes I know which is which). Right now there is only about 12 - 18 ounces of freon in the system. Is 120 too high? On the gauge anything over 70 is in the "red zone".

 

Isn't Dupont the one responsible for our crappy stock paint/clearcoat that made my bird look like it had a severe sunburn? And they sponsor Jeff Gordon....Bastards.