ok, i have a R-12 system in my GTA. i checked out the pressure measurements today for both the low and high sides of the system and the needle didn't even move for either of them. this making me believe that i need to put in more refrigerant. the problem is that no one sells R-12 anymore and i don't want to have to spend the little time and money i have converting the system to 134a specs when i could be getting performance parts. i'm pretty much clueless what to do right now so i'm asking you guys what i should do now. it's just weird having your AC crank out hot air instead of cold air

 

Theres a reason there is no R12 in the system, we have a leak captin.

Look around the ac system from buildup that looks like road grime. That will tell you where the freon leaked out. Converting to r-134a is quite a bit cheaper then getting it refilled with r-12. Last time I checked 43.50 a can my cost for freon. R-134 kits are the same price as 1 can of freon. Just spend $60 on a retrofit kit and replace all the o-rings with the proper -134 components and you wont have any problems assuming your compressor or lines arent leaking.

 

NO shop will fill your system with r12 without doing a leak check first. cause they know that if you need r12 then obviously have a leak (unless you opened the system for some reason). and they are gonna fix the leak their way. if you use r134 you can just keep adding cans

 

at first i thought the R-12 was just depleated, but using that ol noggin of mine you guys are correct. i mean, refrigerators blow cold even longer than how old my car is, plus i didn't even use the AC that much. but still tho, i'd feel better getting the AC leak fixed and filling it back up with the R-12 (probably the only thing i'll leaving in stock condition ) . have any of you guys had a leak fixed and got a refill on the R-12? if so, how much did it cost you?


:hail: -i'm not worthy!! i'm not worthy!! lol

 

In perfect conditions, the freon will last forever. In a fridge for example. However, a car is subject to lots more stuff--like vibrations and not running for long periods of time.

If you want to run R12 and don't have a 30lb tank(like me) that you can use it's going to cost. The cost is going to depend on where the leak is and what it takes to fix it and how much the shop charges for freon. You may end up paying over 100 bucks on the R12 freon alone. 6 months later(could be less/more), it leaks out again. The shop says "Looks like you developed another leak" and you are out 100 bucks of freon. The above stuff is why R134a conversions are popular. Your cheapest fix is going to be:
Buy the conversion kit--35 bucks at wal-mart with freon, etc...
Fill it up with 134a.
Hopefully it will work and you have a small leak. If not, fix the leak and recharge.

 

the average a\c service will cost you about $65.. including a conversion to r-134. sometimes if u still HAVE r-12 in the car you can get converted over alot cheaper because the place doing the work is making money off of your old freon.

 

what about going with some ALTERNATE to r-12........like Freeze 12?????? I heard it gets a little colder than R-12 anyways, and is cheaper, but you do have to convert just like R-134a. But isn't R-12 colder than R-134a anyways? If that's true then Freeze 12 would be colder than both, right? I don't know much about the freeze-12 though so don't take my word for it, do a little research before you do anything.

 

ok who ever thinks that converting r12 to 134 is easy its not. they are completely different. r134 will eventually screw up the system because it was made for r12. thats obvious. r134 will mix with the residue r12 leaves behind in everything and flushing it out wont clean it. That will mess you system up and eventually you'll need a full replacement. not the best idea to me. goto ebay or somewhere and get r12 cans, their most likely a lot cheaper than these ideots think. if this helped your welcome. but whatever you do don't convert.

 

funny... let me see. i used to own a 86 chrysler that was converted in 1999 that is still a daily driver (i don't own it be the people who do live right next to me) and the A\C works better then the rest of the car, A\C hasn't been serviced since i filled it. My 88 GTA was converted back in 1997 or so and it hasn't been touched since. Stock compressor too. System was flushed and vacuumed, replaced accumulator and expansion valve and put in the right oil and it works fine. I also converted a 88 Intergra that the A\C worked perfect for 2 years till the car got wrecked. I have NEVER had to touch the A\C on any car i have converted because i do it right. the only IDIOTS out there are the ones who buy the kit at wal-mart or autozone and try to fill an empty system without doing the work they need to, and then they bring the kits back complaining that the system doesn't cool at all or that the freon didn't even go into the system or the compressor froze up after they put in an extra can.. wanting to legally purchase and install freon does not make you an IDIOT..

 

ah, come on guys don't fight. we're supposed to be on the same side here. save some of that anger for some dumb jerk in a mustang 5.0 who starts talkin smack! anyways, on the topic, i'm sure R134a has it's benefits (it IS cheaper to recharge) however, i don't want to go through the whole conversion process and have to get a new compressor and this and that. in relation to the AC, i think that's the only part of the car i wish to leave untouched and stock. besides, i read a thread on how AC-delco sells different company brands under their name (i.e. delphi) and i don't want some cheap crap part in my car. i just want to keep things simple in this respect. this may sound totally dumb but i think i will go with the R-12 refill and leak patch up. it's 2 simple things and, eventhough it costs a bit, it's worth it in my mind to keep things simple and original. thanks for all ur help guys! and if you get mad, beat the snot out of some rustang or a ***** or ur crappy car of choice

 

mp-39 works well.

 

The avarage ac conversion here run's $160 lol. we charge $119.95 and thats dirt cheap. It's just alot easyer to convert over now then latter, yes you will eventually have to convert to another refridgerant in the future, R-12 is really on its way out just like the 8 track. The conersion is easy and if you have the guages and a vacuum pump your set and it can be done correctly and cool just as well as R-12.


Convert it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SSC

 

well alright about the ac leak thing they do sell this stuff you put in your system, its like fix a flat cans, but you use them in your ac system to fix leaks. i don't knwo where you can get it but a kid in one of my classes did it and his works great now.

 

hmm, maybe using that AC sealer will cushion the blow for when i have to pay for my R-12?

 

If you have a leak, and the system is completely empty, you can bet there will be no simple solution. It is most likely the compressor seal.
You might find the leak in an empty system by pressurizing it with air and going around it with shaving foam. Unfortunately most of the system is not accessable and you have to pull it all out to check it. Takes about a day.
You might be able to fix the compressor seal, if you have the time and tools if not it costs abour $300 to change the compressor, accumulator, etc.
The system operates at high pressure so any leak is terminal. The sealers won't work on the compressor seal.
You do have to clear out and flush the system, otherwise it will all gum up a few weeks after you fill with R134.
I tried the cheap route and just wasted time and money.

 

wow, luck seems to be on my side this time. i was cleaning out a shelf in my garage and i found a canister of R-12!!! i was about to charge the system again when i was reading the directions. it seems there are 2 things you can charge: gas and liquid. i'm guessing the liquid is the refrigerant, but what is the gas?

 

The instructions are confusing. There are two things in the air conditioning system. The lubricant and the refigerant.

When charging the system, if you hold the refigerant can upside down the refigerant goes in as a liquid, if the right way up it goes in as a gas.

When the system is nearly full, it is best to put the refigerant in as a gas to avoid liquid going into the compressor. When starting to charge it goes in much quicker as a liquid.

You have to run the compressor while charging to be sure to get enough into the system.

 

so, andy, you are saying that i have to run the AC while i'm putting that R-12 in?

 

Too bad you're all the way to N.J.... over here in L.A. all it takes is a trip to good ol' Tijuana in México and get your R-12 system checked for leaks, fixed and re-filled for about 80 bucks... my '87 Z28's AC still cools that thermometer in the vent down to F 40º after 2 yrs of having the A/C "messican" service... Good Luck!

 

he's closer to canada that way........ wait n.j. goto a lfea market d00d. they seel it way cheap thereman. i got repair **** really cheap.

 

Yep you have to run the engine. I have some guages and you can see that there is not enough pressure in the cans to fill the system without the compressor running.

If the system is empty the compressor wont start unless you either hot wire it or start filling the system and wait until the pressure gets up to 20 psi to activate the suction pressure switch.

Without the compressor running you can only get up to about 60 psi. but the system needs to be above that when stopped.

Watch out for the Mexican refrigerant some of them use propane.

 

Are you speaking from a personally verified experience or just rumors?

 

The was a report on the subject, I will try and remember where I saw it. Propane is an excellent refrigerant, it just is too flamable for use in a car engine. It is more than a rumor, but for sure I never take a car near a garage except for gas and inspection.