which one has the best fit in our cars? i really dont want to spend the money on a BE COOL one if the Griffin is just the same or the summit one anyone have these and some pics would be nice to.

thanks

 

Modine Radiators look exactly the same and fit exactly the same as stock but they are aluminum. About $149 at Napa auto parts and some other stores.

 

have you notcied if it keeps your car any cooler or not?? dam if i can get one of them that would be cheaper and no shipping

 

Even the local Auto Zone has a 3 core alum. rad. for our cars at like $120-$140... I have never used them though.

 

The Modine made a world of a difference. The car has not overheated since. Keeps a very stable 185 in all temperatures.

 

Try this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...479266930&rd=1

 

it seems like it is a direct replacement.
has anyone used this prouduct and have any opinions on it?

 

i have teh one form autozone w/ a 160 stat and a single fan set up. w/ a mildon water pump
fan flows 2050 if i rember correctly.(i know it was just over 2000cfm. )

my car never gets over 185 unless i am beating the snot out of it.

 

I'm running the dual 1" core Griffin racing radiator that Jegs & Summit sell. It fit with minor modifications, and cost a ton less than the application-specific Griffin and Be Cool units. My car runs as cool as a cucumber. I've got my fan temp set to turn on at 195, and when it does, the car immediately cools down and the fans only run for a few seconds.

 

autozone rad. are cheap. I have on in my car, dont work if you have a nice engine. If your engine is done up, or going to be done up, dont waste ur money on autozone or anywhere but a griffin. I am waiting for one in the mail as we speak. Hopefully, that will keep my car cool.

 

I'm interested in this, because I'll be looking for an aluminum radiator very soon.

So is this the final verdict?? I'm not interested in the brand name. I just want a radiator that compares and performs as well as a Be-Kool or Griffin without spending 500 bucks.....that's insane!!

If anyone knows of one, please let me know!! TIA

 

whats wrong with this one.If i didnt have my beCool.this is what i would get.

 

Jim85IROC,

WHat are the measurements on your rad???

 

What size radiator did you get from griffin? 2 core 1", but what size? there are a bunch of options, and how much was it?

 

Well, I didn't find any from Summit, but Jeg's has one I'll order it tomorrow!! Thanks for the info!

It's a 31 x 19, just put the link 84 1LE gave me plus what Jim85IROC said and it was easy!!

1" 2 core should help out..... thx again!

EDIT: I just read this thread again and checked Jeg's again ....I found that Jeg's also carries Griffin radiators like Jim85IROC was saying...and at the same price they offer thier own brand at.....

So should I go with the Griffin, or the "Jegster" brand?? lol

 

Right now you can get a 31x19 aluminum griffin from summit for 179.95. Its on sale. The summit one is the same price. I ordered the griffin. I wouldnt buy the jegs if the griffin is the same price. I will have to modify my tranny cooler to bypass the radiator, and also run the heater core lines to the intake and water pump as the griffin doesnt have openings for them.

 

Other than what I said in my thread above, what mods did you have to make? Does the stock rad shroud w/fan fit over the top?

 

Yeah, I still haven't ordered it yet. Trying to decide whether I want to get the 1" tube, or the 1.25" tubes. As you said, the 1" 2 core goes for 180 bucks, but has no other fittings except the upper/lower hose connections. No drain, trans cooler or heater hose connections.

Doesn't pose a problem for me since I have a T-5 though. The 1.25" tubed radiator goes for like 270 bucks.....think I should just say the h*ll with it and get that one, or do you think the 1" will do just fine??

 

does the 1.25" one have a fitting for the heater? do any of them have the extra fittings?

 

Nope - not for that price. From what I've seen so far, if you want a tranny cooler, heater hose connections and drain, you'll pay at least 300 bucks for it. Minumum.

Not saying there's not a cheaper one out there - just haven't found one.

 

Is that Be Cool worth the cash? I was thinking about it. But if the Griffin will do the trick then I might get that. Any info would be cool......hahaha a pun.

 

Well, I just ordered the 1.25" tube "circle track" Griffin aluminum radiator from Summit, along with a cap. Like 260 big ones. Best price I found!

Should be here tuesday.......

That's a good one too by the looks of it. It has all the connections and drains. If I had an automatic that's the one I'd get. But since I didn't need the cooler,....

 

I think the only way you will get an aluminum rad with all the fitments is if you buy one as a direct replacement. Those cost some major franklins....The one above on ebay would seem ok but I wouldnt buy from anyone unless its brand name or I knew them personally. The one I bought from Griffin yesterday doesnt come with a petcock either. I've done some research and the 2 row 1 inch rads are fine for the street/strip.

 

I'm running the Griffin also. You can see the thread about my brackets here. (And no, I'm not making them anymore.) The stock upper mount can be "rigged" to work, but the Griffin rad is deeper. No heater to worry about, but I did install a fat tranny cooler in front. With an aluminum Edelbrock water pump I run 196 F (according to the engine computer) as long as the car is moving, 199 at idle.

For a quick look, here's what the top bracket looks like installed:

 

Thanks for posting the link. I honestly think most of the stuff mentioned on the thread won't be an issue for me though. I would think anyone installing this rad. on a 82-85 wouldn't have much problem. Guess I'll find out myself soon enough!

Anyone foresee me having any probs?

Unlike the link above, I have a '83 with the older single electric fan setup, and no heater connections are needed since mine runs to the water pump and intake. Don't need a trans cooler either, and no wonderbar.

Man, these cars must have changed drastically over the years judging by Synapsis's pic above!

BTW CaptPicardsZ28 - I still contend that the one linked to ebay seems to be a decent one, and best of all......it's a drop-in replacement for less than 500 bucks! And they don't appear to be a fly-by-night type place.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Synapsis
[B]I'm running the Griffin also. You can see the thread about my brackets here. (And no, I'm not making them anymore.) The stock upper mount can be "rigged" to work, but the Griffin rad is deeper. No heater to worry about, but I did install a fat tranny cooler in front. With an aluminum Edelbrock water pump I run 196 F (according to the engine computer) as long as the car is moving, 199 at idle.

For a quick look, here's what the top bracket looks like installed:



I have the single fan setup and a tranny cooler. I will hook my heater lines to the intake and water pump if I decide to keep the heater core in. I will find out Saturday what mods I would need to make to fit this rad in. Thanks for the pic.

 

Actually to be honest with you.I wouldnt pay full price for these aluminum rads.Too much $$$$.I got my BeCool on ebay for $289(shipped)from a retailer that was selling it(customer return(never installed,beacuse some fins were bent).Otherwise i would never paid full price(even though i think its worh it).Thats why i put that link here.I like the price & quality,plus the drop in fitment.

 

Installed my new griffin and milodon atwer pump yesterday. Works great!!! Anyone know someone who makes custom rad supports for the griffin, cuz I had to cut mine on the drivers side. Check out my thread to see what mods I had to make.
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...readid=247826.

 

so thats the 2 core 1" ?? reading what you wrote it's practically drop in. is that true?

 

late post!

so whats so bad about the drop in aluminium from napa, its not got plastic end tanks like my stock one and its under right around 100$, is it just ccrappy or just not the best, i know it has to be better than plastic?

for use on a stock 305 lg4 and later a hopefully 300hp, 350ci (stick shift)

 

I dont know about NAPA brand. I wouldnt buy a rad from any parts store but just my preference. I work PT at Checker Auto. For 189 bucks you can get a griffin. It would depend on how the internals are made. That would tell you why its that cheap. Just do some investigating and research.

 

...........

 

is the whole thing aluminium, or does it have the same plastic end caps with aluminium core section?

 

I got a 3 core copper radiator from radiator doctor. I have a stock 195 stat and my car runs (when it was running) at 210. It was running hotter but I got the front air dam finally and that brought it down. Im gonna rebuild the motor and put in a 180 stat and it should bring it down to 200 constant. These cars went 200,000 plus miles from a new car stock running temps of 220-230 without any problems. If you have a good water pump and clean radiator it doesnt matter if you are running 185 or 220. It doesnt make any difference that you will ever see. The only difference is the gauge will be a little lower. All of you guys that think that running cooler is better are just taking faith in and old wives tale. The old timers who started that rumor 30-40 years ago (if they are still alive) are probably laughing thier asses every time someone says that thier car runs so much better at 185 than it did at 210. There is just no FACTUAL information to back it up. I could put in a 160 stat and run at 185 all the time but there is no need to do it.

Once your new engine is broken in and everything has settled into its place for the long run it doesnt matter if it runs at 150 or 240 degrees. If you werent aware of the actual fact that metal gets stronger by heat treating. Race engine builders bake their parts/blocks at 400 degrees for 6 to 8 hours to "strengthen" them. So going on the assumption that moderate heat makes metal stronger you by running your car at a low temperature are actually robbing yourselves of 'stronger' parts in the engine.

The only thing I hate about this board is the morons that post that if your car is running at the normal temp for 3rd gens 210-230 then you are damaging your engine and should put in a 160 stat. Get a grip and when you get some real hard facts and can back it up with legit sources stating that cooler is better then be quiet. Nobody cares what your dad told you or what you heard from some old fart standing in line at the parts counter at bumper to bumper.

Just get a radiator that is 2 or 3 core (copper is fine) and has all the stock fittings. I paid 265 with tax for mine and my car with a 350 in it ran cooler than with the stock rad and engine. As long as you are under ~240 dont worry about it.

Dont get fooled into joining the 160 stat club. If you have an emmisions car and have to get it tested it will be very difficult to pass emmisions because of the cooler temps you will not burn the fuel as efficiently so therefore higher output of unburnt fuel from the exhaust.

For all of you who swear by the 160 stat I dont mean any disrespect but you have no evidence to back up your words. You can say you feel/see a difference but you are biased because you want it to work. I have been in friends cars who did the 160 stat and they said it made it more powerful but what I saw was worse mileage and worse performance not to mention they kept having to replace their catalytic converters because they were getting burnt out from extra fuel getting pumped into them. These guys swore that it wasnt the stat but when they changed it back to a higher temp one the cat problems went away. So from every shred of real life action I have seen with running the car so cool its bad. I have never seen a car benefit from running at 180. Ask any real mechanic and they will say dont do it. The car was not designed to run at that temp. Motors were designed to run at 200-230. Its like using a weedeater to mow a 2 acre field, yeah you could do it but thats not what it was designed for and you will tear the weedeater up running it out of its design specs for hours at a time in that field. If you use things for what they were designed for you will get better results and reliability than if you try to prove you are smarter than rooms full of engineers that have degrees and are paid to figure these things out.

Wesdog

 

You have 84 posts and your calling people morons???? What a joke... I have never heard someone say that if their temp is running 220 then its too hot and damaging your engine. I think you made that up. Most of the guys here would just simply prefer not to run the stock GM temps. Its as simple as that. If you want power then you want to run hotter. You tell us your putting in a 180 stat to run cooler, then you say to ask any mechanic and they will tell you not to run a 180. You contradicted yourself several times. Who says their car runs better when its cooler? We run them cooler cuz we dont want to run at 220-240. Its not hard to understand. If these cars went 200k without any trouble running 230-240 then why are you changing your setup? You setup should be fine at 240. Then you added this:


Once your new engine is broken in and everything has settled into its place for the long run it doesnt matter if it runs at 150 or 240 degrees. If you werent aware of the actual fact that metal gets stronger by heat treating. Race engine builders bake their parts/blocks at 400 degrees for 6 to 8 hours to "strengthen" them. So going on the assumption that moderate heat makes metal stronger you by running your car at a low temperature are actually robbing yourselves of 'stronger' parts in the engine.

What the hell does running my car cooler have to do with baking parts? Bwahahahahah! I will ask my good friend who has been building race engines for over 30 years if he bakes his parts in the oven. I doubt it. Must be an old wives tale like you mentioned above. He built my motor and I know he didnt "cook" it first. It runs great.

You also said this:
Just get a radiator that is 2 or 3 core (copper is fine) and has all the stock fittings. I paid 265 with tax for mine and my car with a 350 in it ran cooler than with the stock rad and engine. As long as you are under ~240 dont worry about it.

Again, why change out your rad if the stocks temps are so good? I dont hear anyone worrying abouot temps unless they are close to overheating. Maybe you should find out at what temp coolant and water boils and then you might see why some of us prefer to run slightly cooler than stock. You also said you've never seen anyone benefit from running their car with a 180 stat...maybe you should own and drive one first. :lala:

 

Heat treating is done around 1700-2000 degrees F to change the grains in the metal to make it stronger.

Heating up a close tolerance part (say, if you have to slip a gear on a crank) would be around 400 degrees and doesn't do a whole hell of a lot to change the metal structure.


FWIW, I'm running a 195 stat in Arizona heat and it runs fine. The highest I've seen is 205F off the computer while sitting in a taco bell drive thru for 20 minutes.

 

I changed radiators in my car because the plastic side tank was broken. It could not be fixed so I got a new radiator and I wanted a decent one. I could have picked up a 2 core like the stock was for 20 bucks less than the 3 core. The 3 fits fine and cools great.

The baking parts in an oven I saw in a book on performance engines. It said that some builders believe that cooking rods and some other parts in the oven at 400 degrees for 4-6 hours (got the book out to check what it said) seasons them and also helps to add to rigidity.


The heat treating you are speaking of (1500 and higher) is done to open up the structure of the metal to allow carbon particles to get into the matrix of the metal. It cant do that when its cold because the structure of the metal is too tight to allow the carbon molecules in. Once its heated that high for a certain amount of time it is dipped in water to cool it quickly to "trap" the carbon molecules. If it is allowed to cool slowly the carbon will be pushed back out by the contracting molecules. The only downside to this is that it makes the metal very brittle. After that treatment is done the metal is taken up to around 500 degrees for a couple of hours. That lower temperature treatment is done sometimes up to ten times to "harden" the metal. While doing it more is not needed, additional cycles of that heat range will harden the metal even more. This is how people have made swords for thousands of years and it works. How the metal that makes up your special engines is different I dont know.

So baking a part in the oven for a few hours is a PROVEN method for hardening metal. Now to be honest with you the parts are probably as hard as they are going to get when someone buys them from the performance company of their choice. So they may be wasting time and electricity but they are doing no harm to anything (unless they burn their hand on a connecting rod). Go ahead and ask your friend, Im sure he as at least heard of it.

As for breaking in the engine and doing it with the engine hot. Parts expand when hot even if its just a little bit. We are talking very tight tolerences here so just a little will mean a lot. The rings wont settle in with they cylinder walls if you just start the engine up for 5 minutes and then shut it off when the motor is new. It needs a little time (20 minutes at least after the engine is warm) to expand to operating clearances. Thats why heat is important. It wouldnt bother me one bit if an engine when first started was around 250-270 degrees as long as it was under the boiling point of the coolant which if mixed 70/30 is around 275-280 depending on the coolant used. Once its broken in at lets say 240 degrees and you put in a 160 degree thermostat and the car runs at 185 then I hope you can understand that at that temp teh parts arent going to expand as much as they did when it was broken in which will allow combustion chamber gasses into the crankcase past the rings.... I think you see where Im going with all this. It makes sense. You all know what things do when they are hot.. they expand so thats where engine temp and break in come in to play.

Best radiator is any radiator that will keep it from getting anywhere past 250 during the worst operating conditions. If its 200 fine. 210 fine. 220 fine 230 fine 240 a little warm. 250 dont go any higher. You have to also take into account that the trans cooler is in the radiator so it should be around 220 most of the time. If you want to bypass that and just use a seperate trans cooler your tranny will run cooler and will thank you but your engine shouldnt be running under 195 once its warm. Thats why its the stock temperature stat on nearly every car ever made. Well between 190 and 197 is the spread on every stock stat I have ever seen.

If I missed anything or said something that doesnt make sense to you let me know and I will clarify. Go talk to some machinists and engine builders and ask them about heat. Race engines run around 230-260 they dont want them to run under 200 because it robs the engine of power by decreasing combustion efficiency. Completely burnt fuel = more power and better economy.

Wesdog

 

Call me a newb (and i am), but i imagine the reason we don't want our engines heat-treating themselves is not metal related. As i recall, oil doesn't like temperatures around 300 degrees, let alone blast furnace levels. And with an engine running coolant at 260, there are probably sections of the engine that are nearing oil dissolution temperature, and thats somewhere i'd rather not flirt, without a flawless, thorough cooling system.

 

If I missed anything or said something that doesnt make sense to you let me know and I will clarify. Go talk to some machinists and engine builders and ask them about heat. Race engines run around 230-260 they dont want them to run under 200 because it robs the engine of power by decreasing combustion efficiency. Completely burnt fuel = more power and better economy.

Wesdog [/B][/QUOTE]

I believe I mentioned that already. Also, racers use a higher psi rated cap as well so the rad doesnt boil over sooner then they want. Generally they will run a 22-24 psi cap, sometimes higher. Never believe everything you read in print. Believe me I have read many things from books and magazines that contradict or make no sense or are just plain wrong.

As mentioned by someone else there are other factors as to why we want to run cooler. Its a matter of preference. BTW, since when did GM put in stock 2 core rads? I dont need to talk to any machinists etc. but apparently you do cuz you only read books. wouldnt it be nice if we would all state facts and not opinions? Or say its fact because we read it in some book or newspaper? I wont be asking you to clarify anything, I've read enough.

Fatherfrank:
Forgive me father if I have sinned by any words I may have spoken towards wesdog...

Synapsis:
Ewwwwwwwww!!! You eat at Taco Bell?? Thats freaking gross!

 

Thou shalt not blaspheme Taco Bell or thou shalt heat-treat in Hell!

 

Sorry!!

 

C'mon someone.....say it. The reason you don't run at 220-230 is due to detonation.

I wonder why you can run higher compression ratios with aluminum heads than iron heads? The aluminum dissapates heat quicker allowing you to run that higher compression without detonating.

Why is a LS1 aluminum? What's it's compression ratio? Computer controlled?

Besides, we're comparing apples and oranges here. My L69 ran fine and stayed cool STOCK with the STOCK 2 core copper radiator. That's what the engineers designed it to do. It ran at around 220 degrees, all computer controlled timing and advance curves as designed. Passed emissions every year, even when I dropped a cam in and CARB legal exhaust.

Running temps as high as 220 was an attempt by GM to lower emissions back then, along with dilluting the exhaust with an A.I.R. system. Look at the newer cars, and what temps they run at. Now most are down to 200-210 range thanks to advances in computer technology.

I have a sbc 400 in which the stock factory T-stat is 180 degrees. It's now far from stock, and is 100 cubic inches over what the car is "designed" for. It breathes (or tries to) pretty well, and consumes more fuel for more HP and TQ - =heat.

No one said 160 is an optimal temp to run at. I personally like to run in the 180-200 degree range. But no higher or else it pings.

 

Picard Im sorry if you felt I was calling you or anyone else in particular a moron. I meant it toward the people that jump into nearly every subject on the cooling board and tell someone who doesnt know any better to run a 160 stat. They are telling this to people who have cars with 150,000 on them and the radiators are probably clogged. They think that whatever problem they have with a cooling system can be cured by a cooler stat.

I had a guy the other day come into work and tell me his car was overheating and he wanted a 7psi radiator cap. I looked it up and his car called for a 13psi cap. I told him this and told him he probably wanted to go up to a 17psi cap to help with the boiling over he had. He got huffy and puffy and told me he had been a mechanic for 30 years and that he knew what he was talking about better than I did. So I sold him the stat and he came back that evening with it wanting his money back. I told him no he could get another thermostat and pay for it but he was going to have to lay in the bed he made with the first thermostat.

The point being I was not getting onto you guys that have legit reasons for running cooler stats. I was talking about the guys that have a stock car and put in a 500 dollar radiator and top it off with a 160 stat. Then they tell everyone to do the same as they do because their car runs so cool. I am saying that with a 3 dollar 180 or 195 degree stat and a good clean radiator and water pump in good operating condition then their car will run cool. If its not running cool like that then they have bigger problems than a radiator.

I could order a 400 small block and put a supercharger on it and still run the radiator and a stat that is close to stock temp and be fine. There are cars every day that do it.

So once again if I offended any of you that have legitimate reasons to run cooler like high compression as stated above or other reasons that you need the temp to be lower on the car I am sorry. I should have clarified what I was talking about in the first place instead of arguing with you guys like a hardhead.

There are some reasons to go cool with big time radiators and cooler stats.
If you are running a stock or mildly modified car you only need a good clean cooling system with a thermostat that operates like its supposed to.

Wesdog

 

Where did all you guys get these copper radiators? All the f-bodies I've owned have had a radiator with an aluminum core and plastic end tanks. That includes :
1) 87 Camaro with an LG4
2) 83 Camaro Z28 with a Crossfire
3) 87 Firebird with v6
4) 89 Firebird with LB9

and since it was completely stripped down after a totalling wreck, and all the parts are in my shed, I'll include my buddy's camaro

5) 88 Camaro with TBI

All these cars came with aluminum radiators. None of them has ever had a cooling problem, except for a leaky end tank, or coolant hose.

 

^^^You went from cap to thermostat...which was it?^^^

I knew you werent calling me a moron and I knew who you were calling morons but the comment from me was that it was pretty bold coming from a new guy. People here tend to get over sensitive and read into comments that are made. It happens because this is a printed forum and its sometimes hard to "read into" what someone is trying to express as a feeling. Anyway, I think (staying on topic here) that either a griffin or a howie aftermarket rad is fine and reasonably priced. I wouldnt pay 500 dollars for a "different" brand.

Mine is working fine and it went in with just a few mods. I'm happy and have told others about it. Detonation is a concern as well. I am also switching to a higher psi cap. I want a 22-24 instead of the 13-16 I have now. I didnt know some stock rads came with 2 cores either or that there were aluminum ones made. Learn something new everyday. I had a stock copper rad and had the core removed to as big a three core as the guy could make me and it kept my car 20* cooler than the stock core. Only reason i swapped to griffin was because my car is almost finished and I will be racing it soon. I wanted to work out any bugs with the cooling system now so I wouldnt have to later.

 

It was a radiator cap sorry the boy was messing with me and I got off track.


Oh and picard before you go around saying people are new you need to look past the post count and take a look at someone who has been a member for more than a year longer than you. If I would have joined when I first came to the site I would have been a member since around summer 2000 since thats when I got my thirdgen and found the site. I spent my time learning so I didnt need to register and post, and post and post, and post to get my count up.

HIgh Post count = like to see themselves type

Me= only talks when he has something good to say (isnt often according to the wife)

I think Im done here good luck on your search for a radiator dude. Like I said you dont need to fork out 3 or 4 hundred for a rad just go to radiator doctor and get a good one. While you are at it a new water pump and stat are a good idea as is a radiator cap.


I apologize for getting the thread off track. Ill keep 100% on topic from now on.
GL
Wesdog

 

lol....as i watch myself type!

i need a good radiator quick!!

 

i got one thats good
griffen universal radiator. it is a tight fit though, who ever says that aint kidding around, if you have skill under the hood at all and a dremmel you can make it fit with the stosk stuff.