i just took my 92 305 rs to a auto shop for overheating problems, The problem was the fan which he wired to run constantly with the engine. My car now remains at about 115 which is alot better than earlier, but i was questioning the efficenciy of this setup. Power loss? what are the pros and cons. Sorry if this has been covered before, this is my first post.
by the way i paid $140 just for that!

 

do you mean it is wired so when you turn the ignition to the ON position it comes on and when you take your key out of the ignition it turns off? because thats a good setup (i have that setup, i bypassed the relay) because you can have your car ON but ur engine not running and itll cool the rad faster. i think that 115* is pretty reasonable temp, your running temp can vary depending on ambient air temp, amount and agressiveness of driving, whether or not your AC is on...blah blah blah, my engine runs at just under 100*, i live in a city with warm weather, no ac, and like to be gentle to my engine.

 

yes that is exactly what i mean..this would be fine in the summer but im a little bit worried because of the fact that its winter here in california and even though it dosnt get THAT cold, morning temps can be very cold. Is there a way i can warm my engine up even with the fan setup like this? and when i turn my car off some of the dash lights dimly light up then imediatley start to slowly fade out..is this serious? thanks for yourh help

 

But not the engine itself, which is what the cooling system is designed for.

JamesC

 

Hack job, that’s a grease monkey not a mechanic.

1.) Those fans are not meant to run all the time, the motors life will be cut significantly.

2.) Engines have to get hot to clear moisture from the crankcase. Water (H2O) is an emission of good combustion. Fuel (HC) Plus Oxygen (O2) = Carbon dioxide (CO2) and Water (H2O). Too cold a temp causes sludge and oil thickening as well as consumes the lubricants additives.

3.) Factory engines are built with all the parts too small at cooler temperatures so that when they get hot (200+), they expand to the correct size. Until they do, you have increased wear and blow-by. The blow-by exacerbates the moisture problem.

4.) The fans are a significant electric load, the load on your alternator is significant and that power comes from your engine. You have defeated one of the major benefits of electric fans; the fact that the turn off when they are not needed. On the highway, your fans may never be needed but there yours are, spinning their butts off.

It sounds like monkey boy bypassed the relay so when you turn the key off, the fan motors are acting as a generator until they wind down. This is rough on electronics and you may have other problems from it.

Put your fans back the way they were designed to work and stay away from monkey boy. $140 to F your car up is insidious. 115 is WAY to cold to run any street engine. You shortening the life of your fan motors and your engine, decreasing it's efficiency, and reducing your fuel economy.

 

with tex sounds like your wrench was a lazy sob and didnt or couldnt find the temp sensors

 

also. Your engine is designed to run within a certain temp range. You are running too cool. I bet your heater sucks. Is your car even going into closed loop? Automatic cars have to reach a certain temp before the trans will perform certain functions.

 

im goin back there today..but im not sure what to tell him. i know this needs to be fixed the right way, especially for $140! i only have one fan by the way. So, based on what the guy said..my fan is not coming on at the right temp. and you guys are saying that its a temp sensor thats wrong?
thanks once again for your help and support

 

Sensor, relay, or related circuits.Wiring it full time on is NOT a fix but rather a hack.There is no reason for these fans to run all the time. The primary reason for running electric fans is defeated by wiring them full time on.

 

Does your fan turn on when you turn on the A/C? If yes, then then culprit is most likely the fan switch. If not, then it could be a problem with wiring or fan relay as others have said. The fan switch (which is just a sensor that closes a circuit once it reaches a certain temperature) is on the passenger side head between cylinders 6 and 8.

 

Welcome to TGO this is a greate place to learn about your car . I would recomend getting a Hays manual so you can read that when a problem comes up . Sometime it seems like we are speaking another language, but if you look at the book things will become more clear .Becarefull we will be spending your money like it grows on trees .Good luck keep an open mind and dont take thing personal.

 

thanks i will be gettin that manual..and i made him the fix the relay at no extra charge! anyway the car dosen't go into the red anymore but it gets close..is there maybe something else that could be going on?

 

Easy things first: Verify that the car has an air dam. Check to make sure there's no debris between radiator and condenser.

Jamesc

 

there is no air dam and were is the condenser??

 

in front of the radiator

 

ok now the question is were to purchase a new air dam? sry bout all these basic questions..new to all of this, but im learning and taking notes so please bear with me! haha

 

I believe they're still available from GM or from the following site (part number 14083929):

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm

By the way, the search fucntion on this site is a valuable tool.

JamesC

 

BIG POZ REPAIR SHOP- turn on your ac to max and disconnect the wire going to the condenser...(does the same thing monkey did to you) Charge- free

MONKEY WRENCH REPAIRS - F@CK your **** up with hack skills. Charge- 140.00

sorry to hear you been "had"...

go the the junk yards for parts.

 

i hope you wrote him a check so you can put a stop payment on it. at the auto parts store it is only $40 i think for the fan relay kit.

 

Both my fans come on with the key but run at normal temp because I cooling system also has a thermostat that opens at 200+. What makes you think your running at 115* anyway.

All you have to do to get the fanx to come with the key is tie the green wire at the relay to ground. I paid $10 to have my auto electrical do it. If you paid $400 you got screwed.

 

Hey guys I need help with this problem too, my fan is wired to stay on with the ignition on. I noticed their was two wires soldered to the temp switch, but not for sure where their going to from their.
I cant just take this to a mechanic to fix cause Im overseas.
Can anyone explain how to fix this back to normal.

 

so wait...are you guys worried about the engine warming up faster to expel the water?...or are you worried about your fan life?.

perhaps up in canada we have some less than cold situations, and with the fan running it will not prevent your car from warming up if your thermostat is working properly. we also get some hot temps in canada durring summer time and the fan is always running anyways regardless of proper wiring, and since its mostly prarie its all highway driving so the cooler the better cuz you dont wanna blow ne thing in the middle of nowher. and doesnt your fan always run when you have the AC on? my doesnt have AC so i cant confirm that.

oh ya and plus if you like to race your maro then you prob will enjoy the low engine temps when makin runs

 

 

who said anything about $400? u out your mind! im not that dumb. And the 115* was a guess..the needle barley moves above the 100*mark..how bout that?? anyway i made the, replace the relay and the fan turns on when needed off when not

 

My mistake, If you paid $140 you got screwed. Happy now.

 

yes thats better, and i guess im supposed to go fix my own car with my one and only handy dandy screwdriver and a prayer right?
but thanks for your help i really appreciate it!

 

Hey I’m not criticizing you. The mechanic you took your car to is the one I'm criticizing.

I took my car to an Auto Electric place myself. I told him I wanted the fans on all the time. He cut the green wire at the relay and tied it to ground, and he only charged me $10.00 and it took about 10 Minutes.
He showed me what he did so I can return it to stock later if I want. But so far it's working fine the way it is. I passed (CA smog) and I've not overheated since.

Good Luck

 

well if you wanted a fan that stayed on all the time why not a mechanical fan. less drain on the electrical system and no worries about burning out the electric fan. just a thought. after all $140 is alot of money to spend on a few inches of wire. why not just replace the fan.

 

Nevermind.

 

are you NUTS

first off thats NOT cool, what is this a truck forum
second is that thats WAY more rotating mass that doesnt need to be rotating, therfore less drag and possible belt slipping and loss of coolant pump, then thers the weight, the fan is metal so thats about 20lbs more, then thers the shroud around the fan to channel the air properly, another 20-30lbs and about an hour waisted every time you need to access the front block (remove shroud, remove fan with shroud...carefull not to scratch or drop anything, and dont forget that those bolts are nearly impossible to get to).

and third, you lose so much hp and put too much wear on your engine with that extra mass.
forth is safety, even tho it should be reason #1, its gonna hurt a lot more to get your hand chopped off then if you just get a little bruise from stopping the electric fan completely.

 

 

NUTS? i just might be. we arent talking about being efficent we are talking about the fan aspect of the cooling system. now you mentioned something about how it makes it more difficult to work on the vehicle but if the guy who got had for $140 actually had a clue about how to work on his car anyway then we would not be having this discussion. i mean for the money he spent he should have a new fan setup. but whatever i am nuts. now another problem that i have is that i do tend to look at things a little more truck orented. oh well thanks for noticing. serpintine setups arent terrible with a mech fan. i recommend the mech fan because of reliabilaty and for no other reason. on my camaro yes i have electric fans run off toggle switches and i run the fan in city traffic only. on average i don't run the fan more than twice a week if at all. so let me just clarify that if you want a fan that runs all the time then you might want a mech fan because the trucks that i work on never have fan problems. that is unless you care about hp and how the mech fan drags it down. i am sorry if i am mistaken but the car we are talking about isn't used for racing but as a form of transportation. the driver of this car most likely doesnt care how much he spends to keep the car on the road because it's paid off and costs hardly anything to insure. honestly consider what your saying because i suggested a mech fan in a camaro. it's not that bad. when i take a diesel engine and drop it in my camaro then i am nuts. what about $140 for some wire now thats nuts. gramps i think you are the one that is nuts. time to take you back to the old folks home. no seriously get over it cause if you stuck your hand in a mech fan then you deserved to loose it ya nut. lets talk about safety.... on most cars there is a warning on the fan shroud. i wonder why. cause some idiot did it already. good job gramps.

 

I don't think anyone with a 3rd gen Camaro would consider a mechanical Fan for any reason.

First off I just took a look at my TPI setup and because of where the water pump the fan would cut right through the Air intake.

Second both my fans are on all the time, 2 years now and my car runs fine. It doesn't run too cold because it has a thermostat that only open at the appropriate temp.

Third the fan motors are not expensive to replace.

Forth since I set my car to run with the fans on all the time I've never overheated.

I do agree that the Mechanic that charged $140 is a crook, but that's the extent of are agreeing.

 

thinking about what we do agree on, the mechanic being a crook. does he run a shop where many people go to get ripped off every day. or is he one of those guys that hang around the auto parts store that fixes cars in the parking lot. ya know places like advance auto loan tools so they just borrow tools all day and rip people off. most people dont think to ask the mechanic to see their ase. as for those guys trying to work on peoples stuff in the parking lot be careful, their asc card is written in crayon and laminated with a zip lock bag.

 

just got here and im already the laughing stock of the boards! haha, oh well
by the way my car is overheating again..the fan still comes on "on time" but i still think that if it were to come on earlier and go off later it would be a great help to my poor car. Next time im just gonna buy new, not used! haha
thank you all for your help once again

 

thank you for your time...one more question, the real reason those stickers went on the shroud was because of due diligence, why did you stick your hand into the shroud?

wonderfull...on a sidenote, how can a man who works on diesel trucks for a living possibly compare the engine components to any car?

(ill let you answer on your own)

 

good question. how is a 19 year old punk a machinist? don't you mean machinist trainee.

no really i am not joking! shop class in high school doesnt qualify your for that title.

 

Don't let those guys bug you; they are having fun with each another.

By overheating, how hot are we talking? The fans that adequately cooled your engines for years have not suddenly lost their ability to do so unless something has changed. If you are still overheating, I suspect there is a thermostat or radiator issue. You should not have to change when the fan comes on to change the amount of heat it can remove. It’s like putting a colder thermostat in to remedy an overheating issue that is not caused by the thermostat; it won’t cure the problem but may mask it by making it take longer to over heat.
With your fans, if they are running at the right time and moving the air they are supposed to then they are not the cause of your problem. Make sure the radiator is not blocked either on the air or the liquid side. And verify correct and complete thermostat operation. If those items check out, then you may have to consider other possibilities that include but are not limited to blown head gaskets and/or cracked heads.

 

i started my apprenticeship when i was 17, straight outta high school. i am now 20, and because i work so hard and do such good work i get overtime so my 8000hour apprenticeship (approx 4 years) is almost up, i have 7500hours now and still have to write my IP exam. but the place i work in deffinately qualifies me to make opinions, solve problems and work compentently without my supervisor on my back. i got lucky and found a place that would take me, its probably the best machine shop in victoria because of the guys that work there and the jobs that we see, we are not a production shop, more of a jobing shop.

EDIT: i finished high school with honors too

 

I have at 98tj jeep. I installed an electric fan one month ago. Worked perfect until today. I had the hood up today and we got a light rain. Now yy electric fan runs constantly even when not turned on. The relay must have got some moisture on it. Fan is wired using a relay and a thermatic switch. Fan is powered to the battery. Jeep is in the garage tonight. Maybe it will work properly in the morning. Could the relay have been permanent damaged when the water got on it. Switch only got a few drops on it. I would appreciate any suggestions

 

mhtiger54,

1) This is a forum for the discussion of the 3rd-Gen F-Body cars (1982-1992 Firebird and Camaro), not Jeep. Different companies and not even GM.

2) You have 1 post so it seems like you joined a car forum just to ask this question, but this is not a general forum for any type of car. Im sure you would find a Jeep forum if you searched Google.

3) It's good that you searched and found this thread, but look at the date of the last post before yours. You just brought back a 5 year old thread.

Relays are cheap so just buy another and try it and it seems like you have enough knowledge (since you installed the electric fan) to troubleshoot this. Good luck.