Is anyone using the following parallel flow (for 86-91) or have any info about it?

http://www.autocondenserstore.com/ch...condensers.php

JamesC

 

Are the stockers parallel flow? I got my whole front end apart and thinking about replacing the stock condensor since its starting to get brittle and the fins are all jacked up.

 

I know that design is more efficient than the OE design. So I would imagine it would work better.

 

No. Parallel flow condensers didn't exist back then.

 

Looks like I found me an affordable upgrade then...awesome

 

Reid,

You might be interested to know that I took the car to a shop recently and they FINALLY found a leak in the condenser (with a light) and the compressor was weeping a bit. Still not sure what I want to do. The shop gave me two estimates, one to fix the compressor and replace the condenser, the other to convert to 134.

JamesC

 

If it were me, Id pay to fix the compressor and replace condenser and stick with the r-12.

 

If it were me. I'd fix the compressor leak and replace the condenser and convert to R134A because that stuff is getting expensive too. but cheaper than r12 still. and supposedly more environmental friendly.

 

I remember seeing that website selling parallel flow condensers for our cars, but after some research of the part number it is the same part number of the standard tube and fin condenser. do some research on it before you purchase, because as far as i know nobody makes a parallel flow condenser for our cars, you have to use a universal one.

 

Good advice. The shop owner who provided the quote assured me (for what that's worth) that the condenser he'd install--not necessarily the one above--was a direct-fit parallel flow.

JamesC

 

well let us know what you find James. I'd probably do this to my car at some point and time too.

 

I'm interested in how this turns out. R-12 with a parallel flow condenser should give dynamite performance.

 

Just found a thread that Reid posted in last year that has a part # for a direct fit parallel flow condensor from advanceauto for $109....

Visteon Part# 2092

Surely someone has seen that thread and done it....

edit: advancedauto shows part 2092 and 2096 to be parallel flow but they both look like tube and fin and are different prices

 

I couldn't tell any difference in what I thought was a new parallel flow condenser I purchased through Rock auto and the stock unit. I replaced it anyway since I'm converting to R134. From my research and from what the manufacturer of the condenser stated int he instructions, if making the conversion to R134 and/or if there was a failure of the compressor it is recommended to replace the condenser since they can hold debris and oil and flushing is not going to get it cleaned out.

What exactly does parallel flow mean anyway when compared to stock?

 

I answered my own question - see web site for detailed explanation.
http://www.ackits.com/parallel/condenser1.jpg

According to the information on condensers contained on this site, there are true parallel flow universal condensers for retro-fit applications (require new hoses and/or mounting brackets) or partial parallel flow condensers, like the Visteon unit offered for the Third Gen.

I've ordered the Visteon unit and will check it's construction out to see how it compares to the tube and fin style. I just installed a new stock style condenser this weekend but this was one of the easiest jobs I've ever undertaken on my GTA so far so I'm OK with putting a new one in if it will help.

 

sweet let us know..I can see maybe having to change the hoses or having the end changed to do this mod...anyway make sure to post up your findings.

 

Checked out the Visteon AC condenser and it's not a parallel flow design, it's an OEM tube and fin design. It isn't even painted black. Don't waste your time on this unit if you're looking for something better/different than stock.

 

Good to know its just a stock replacement...

 

I should add a few points to this.

Tube & Fin vs Parallel Flow......We all know that PF is better than T&F. The Visteon is neither. It's a "6 mm design." Sort of an "in between" performance level. Much like the Serpentine condenser picture posted above in the linked pic.

About the only redeeming quality of Tube & Fin is that they are flushable. Parallel flow condensers aren't flushable. At least they're not fully flushable. Look at the pictures of each and you'll see what I mean. The other nice thing about them is they're stock and fit nicely.

I "think" I recall somebody buying the Visteon and it having difference connector sizes where the lines hook up. So it may not be the "direct" fit that it's claimed to be. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong.

In today's new car world of R-134a and parallel flow condensers, they will generally tell you to simply replace the condenser and that the condenser is not flushable. This is due to all PF condensers' design itself as mentioned above.

 

James,
Coming from a radiator and a/c shop industry with 23+ yrs exp, I can tell you the parallel flow units are engineered to match or outperform the old serpentine units.
If the repair shop wants to repair your compressor by doing a clutch and o-ring fix, go for it. If they are going to rebuild it by pulling it apart, find a reman or new unit as the pistons can become worn past service life just the same as caliper and master setups.
And about the refrigerant...
R12 outperforms 134A in any retrofit application that I ever dealt with. Although the newer systems were designed for 134, they still mostly cannot drop the temp down as low as with 12.
Unfortunate for many consumers as R12 is illegal in many areas now, such as here in B.C.

 

R134a SUCKS period, it is not energy efficient at all and cools like crap. R12 is much better than that. R134a is already being replaced with a Hydrocarbon blend in some refrigerator brands. Hydrocarbon refrigerants are where it is at and we are just slow to accept them.

 

After researching, I've come to the conclusion that no company manufactures a true parallel flow condenser that is a direct fit for our cars. There are several who claim parallel flow, but they appear to be nothing more than the 6 mm design. This design can be had from several sources, among them Napa (ModineL 1K200092), O'Reily's (Murry 2092), Autozone (Spectra 7-3231) and Advance Auto (Visteon 2092).

AC Delco (15-6652) and American Consider (P32310) may also offer them, but I wasn't able to verify. I e-mailed the latter twice without a response.

Another oddity: Most data bases show these condensers available for 86-91 cars, but at least two show them available for 85-91. The later year AC hoses I'm using fit my 85 perfectly. I'm unsure about the 82-84 cars, though I did see where AC Delco claimed a 82-91 fit. Go figure.

JamesC

 

Here are where the leaks occur: as can be seen, the condenser took a hit in the past. The compressor is also weeping a bit at the holes. A week from Monday I'm taking the car in for a condenser swap (a 6 mm version) and a compressor seal replacement. R12. My hope is that this fix will be the solution to a long-running and annoying problem.

JamesC

 

your condenser looks better than mine

 

Job complete. The Visteon 2092 was used. The shop had to tweak the lower 'hard line' on my 85 to get it to mate to the condenser, but apparently it wasn't a big deal. (Sooo, 86+ may be correct, though I wonder about, say, Spectra who claims fitment for 85+.) With the old condenser out of the car, the oil from the leak could clearly be seen. The compressor seal was replaced, the orifice tube cleaned of a load of crap, and the system charged with 12. So far the system is blowing darned cold. I hope that this recent 'fix' will end my long fight with AC in my car.

A side note: A moaning that I'd always attributed to the condenser turned out to be the tensioner pulley, this on a new GM serp kit I'd installed only three years ago. A Dayco 89007 replacement cured that problem.

JamesC

 

James...

How is your system working now after having all the work completed?

I wanted to do a swap over to Envirosafe 12a to get better cooling. Your shop had access to actual R12 to re-fill your car? I bet that was a pretty penny to pay then.

Thanks again!

 

So far so good, though the temps here in KS haven't yet reached their extremes. Some members mention the unavailability of R12, but I've never experienced any problems in that regard. The price was $54 a pound (about double the price of 134, at least that's what my estimate leads me to believe).

JamesC

 

Wholesale from NAPA I can get R12 all day long for ~$30.00 a 12oz can, even filling the 3lbs system in my Van that would only be $120.00. The dealership I work for charges $27.00/lbs for R134a.

 

Does the "6mm design" condensor perform any better than your stock one did, before leaking?

 

Everything I've read indicates that the 6mm design is superior to OE. That said, I've never tested either at vent temp, so I can only say that so far the car cools quickly and at very satisfactory temps.

JamesC

 

My condensor is pretty beat up and on its last leg. Doesnt leak yet, but its only a matter of time. If this "6mm design" one works atleast on par with the stocker then its worth replacing.

 

I believe it works probably better than the stocker, not to mention you should be upgrading your cooling system anyway. TBI cars only had the single fans, a dual fan setup from a LT1/LS1 car would greatly benifit you.

 

I should have mentioned i have an aftermarket alum rad with 2 electric high flow fans. But i plan on swapping in this condensor and running autofrost for some bone chilling vent temps....