Hi i have a stock 1987 belived to be formula 305 firebird


my a/c terribly sucks, but the fan blows well. I heard that you can recharge the old r-12 system with new r-134a fluid without modifying the system at all, is this true? and if so how well does it work?

 

Whoever told you that should put down the charging tap and step away from your car. R134a in a R12 system will cook the compressor in short order. The R12 mineral oil is not compatible with the R134a. Not to mention a R12 system cools like crap on R134a.

 

so what is the cheapest solution?

 

is there any other fluids to replace it?

i need something really cheap and with no replaced parts

 

You need freeze 12 which is supposed to be as good as R12.

 

The cheapest solution may be to take the car to a shop, have the system checked, and if all's well, recharge with R12.

JamesC

 

Depending on how much R12 you need it may even be cheaper to have it converted to 134. The 12 is very expensive and the 134 is cheap. Get a price for both approaches and add in any future re-charging etc. Or you can get the conversion parts and kit and do it yourself. There are a ton of videos on-line. Even if you don't do it perfectly at least you'd be in the 134 (cheap) world.

 

Good advice.

A recent estimate for a 134 conversion with a condenser replacement, A/C compressor shaft seal kit and a bunch of other bits was $803.59. The R12 with nearly the same replacements was $581.58. A pound of R12 was $65.93 while the 134 was $25.00.

JamesC

 

I was going to do it myself and found a bunch of articles on line about the different a/c systems, how they work and what would be involved in converting them. You can buy the new parts and a conversion kit at your local auto store. There's a video a guy did of the complete charging process. I ended up stripping the a/c to lighten for auto-x but it looked do-able. Just a bunch of research first. I think I figured it would cost about $200 if I didn't screw anything up. But that's always the DIY risk.

 

Under normal circumstances, I prefer doing the work myself, but I have no means of evacuating and recovering the refrigerant.

JamesC

 

R12 IS NOT EXPENSIVE at all any longer, I can buy New cans for under $30.00 a 12oz can at my local Napa. R134a is about 15.00 a 12oz can. That is $30.00 on a typical car. However I have a license and buy it at wholesale. On the otherhand I do not use R12 at all, as HC Blends are much more effective.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/R12-I...item27bb31bab5

 

i found a retro fit kit at autozone to make my system a r134a, apperently in washington you can buy r-12. should i spend the $50 and make the jump to the retro fit kit?

 

If your a/c works a bit it may be cheapest and definitely the easiest to just get it fully charged. Don't try and convert it without doing some reading. There are a couple of parts (like the orifice tube) that may be worth replacing when you do it but do the reading to see what's involved. Plus, legally you're not supposed to release the refrigerant into the atmosphere it's supposed to be recovered using special equipment. I considered doing it myself because my a/c was totally discharged anyway. Weigh up the costs and effort. But, again, research.

 

I use es-12a it works great. You don't have to change anything. Works with any oil or Orings. Does not install under vacume. Just have system drained and you can refill it yourself. My 84 TA took 2.5 cans. Anyone can buy it. It is safe to use. EPA approved. Read the tech page form supplier for info.
I would change the dryer reciever, all the Orings and orifice. The complete master recharge kit is only $46.00 to your door. The other stuff about another $40.
My system is putting out 40* when it 98* outside. I could never get my system (even when car was new w/R-12) under 60*. I got my from a place in MI. Just google it and see which place gives you best prices for a complete kit. My kit had charging hose, 3 cans of 12a, can of stop leak and 134a retro fit fittings.

 

ES12A is the same basic stuff I use in my Ram, my G-van, my dads Express van, my brothers Dakota and the Sentra. The cooldown is what is by far the most impressive, turn the a/c on and the air is immediately COLD.

 

I'm going to recharge my A/C again after a 4 year engine swap and I've been reading about autofrost, ES-12a, R-12, R-134, etc. all night long and I'm not sure what I need yet. Mine was working fine with R-12 when the 305 threw a rod 4 years ago and now that I installed a 350 in there I really miss my A/C.
How's that ES-12a working for you after some time of using it?

 

I was just going through the thread,I dont know what my car has... Sorry for being blunt,how to know if the car has R12 or R134a system installed?

My car is 1982 Trans Am,and R12 was during those times,Pics would help to determine what system is in the car