Hello all just wanted to throw this out there for anyone considering using RedTek on a thirdgen. I replaced the compressor, accumulator, and desiccant pack last year, vacuumed it down and put in about 18 oz (3 cans) of Redtek R-12A last summer. A/C blew ice cold in the AZ summer desert and then the car sat for about 7 months while I was out of the country. When I got back the A/C still blows super cold (too cold for me on the max A/C 3 or 4 fan setting with 85-90F OAT). When I first decided to fix the A/C last summer I couldn't find too many threads on this stuff on this board but I am pleased to say I'm happy with the performance of the A/C with the RedTek.

It's more expensive then R-134 on Amazon but the system requires less to function properly so it somewhat evens out cost wise.

So far no problems... will update if something bad happens.

 

Good to know! Thanks for the info

 

What kind of vent temps are you getting?

 

I never measured the vent temps when I did the job this past summer. My "ice cold" assessment was based on it feeling comfortable (i.e. cabin is cool and I'm not sweating ) inside with the A/C on max and highest setting, idling outside around 3pm, in a hot summer day in late June (OAT about 105-110F). Bear in mind this is with no humidity.

I was putting off fixing AC until I fixed some other things but once the above 100 F temps hit in AZ I thought better of that idea.

I'll try to remember to measure the vent temps this weekend though so there is a more objective assessment for guys considering going with RedTek to go off of.

 

Thanks for the info, I am looking into doing this and appreciate it.

I'm in AZ too and have found I don't NEED AC until 107 degrees on shorter trips (<20mi)... Unless it's stop and go. Then it's a lot lower.

 

Thanks!

 

Just a heads up on hydrocarbon refrigerants. My son had a fox body that we had charged with a hydrocarbon refrigerant. He slid on wet pavement and hit a pole. The front of the car went on fire, which I think was fed by the leaking refrigerant. The fire was confined to the condenser/ radiator area, and the only thing there that was flammable was the refrigerant. I will stay away from it in the future as I don't think it is a safe option any more.

 

You got me wondering and I found this.....sounds very flammable indeed

http://www.shadetreemechanic.com/cc_...frigerants.htm

 

It is. It's also an approved R-12 replacement everywhere in the world but here. I ran a similar product for year, and never lost a moments rest worrying about it.

 

With regard to your comment about never loosing a moments rest worrying about it....I have one word for you - LIABILITY

 

I ran it for years as well until I gave my bone-headed son a car and he smashed it into a pole. I worry more about an interior leak igniting. Just something to think about.

 

It's illegal to have in a car A/C system in many states, including here in Florida. Way too risky for me. I dont want to be involved in a law suite after an accident that involves my car catching on fire, the lawyers will eat you for lunch!

 

I really don't worry about a few oz of hydrocarbon refrigerant in an a/c system. I have used propane/isobutane as well as R152a in several systems. My 2011 Infiniti M56S has R152 in it along with my 1997 Express van. Both have much quicker initial pull down, lower head pressures and blow ICE cold at idle. With the blower on high and recirculate, both get down to 40°F at idle on a 105°F day with moderate humidity Running down the road I have seen both get into the lower 30s vent temp. Compared to R134a crap I will just risk it. Not like I don't have 20-30 gallons of highly flammable hydrocarbons in the vehicle in an easily punctured tank at any time anyway. I am far more concerned about the gasoline in the fuel rail underneath the plastic engine cover in the Express van sitting over the hot engine and exhaust anyway. Even brake fluid and p/s fluid can easily burn when it contacts a hot manifold or header in a collision.

 

I thought it worked great as well. But my experience with it in a collision changed my mind. My bigger concern is a leak inside the passenger compartment. There is more then enough of it to start a nasty fire in the presence of a spark. I just put the info out there. You guys do what you want. But I am done with it.

 

Anyone here ever use Duracool?

 

Charlie - that is the one I used. They are all relatively the same propane blends. It worked good, other then the safety issues

 

Good to know. I've been using Duracool in my R12 cooled cars as a top off for years.

 

Fast355 - I have used the R152A. Although there are claims to its flammability, I don't think it is as flammable as the propane. I did not get as good results with it. I need to play with the amount I charge, but I charged it according to instructions on the web vs. R12. I think the fact is, nothing will cool as well in an old system as R12. The condensers are not as efficient and as big as the newer cars so performance suffers with the replacements. I need to change the seals in my TTA and I am hoping for better results with R152A with the electric fans vs. the engine driven fan in the 82 TA.

 

Converted two cars to R152A awhile back. I didn't change the compressors, just flushed everything out, replaced seals, and serviced as usual. Both gave about 50* vent temps on 100* days. The compressors were notably quieter than with R134A, and performance was vastly improved. One of the two leaked at the compressor seals, the other is still going strong. Kinda hard to beat something that is cheap, easily available, and better than 134. I'm not remotely concerned about any potential flammability.

PS: If I perish in a fireball next week, disregard my endorsement.

 

Good to know - I have no problem using the R152A but the other stuff is illegal here and it's too risky from a liability stand point for me. I worked for a lawyer years ago - boy the stories I could tell you about stuff like this would change your mind about using the illegal refrigerant in a heartbeat. I've seen people lose life savings, houses and their retirements, everything. Believe me when I say, its not worth the risk, even if it's minor !!!

 

I really doubt flammability is an issue with it. I never heard of anyone setting their house on fire with the stuff. Did you have electric fans on the cars you converted? The issue I have seems to be performance at idle. It should be a bit colder, although the receiver dryer is cold. I also might need to adjust the AC cycle pressure or try a different sized orifice tube. It does perform better then R134A.

 

Yep, both were electrics. I can't remember which orifice tube I used in which car, but I know one was the red, and the other was the blue. I didn't make any adjustments either, just did the vacuum, and charge. I was getting lots of condensation, and the dryer sweating. Pretty much the difference between a car that can be driven anytime in the summer, and being a miserable sweaty mess. I imagine the vent temps would be better with some tweaking, a newer condenser, a fresh compressor. But this was a low budget, nothing to lose refit. So I'm happy with the results.

The same car that's held it's R152A charge, got a quicky R134A retrofit in about 2000. The 134A just about had to be at interstate speeds to blow cold enough to matter, and usually it had to be on Max A/C and full fan. The 152 I have to point the vents away, turn down the fan, or change the setting. With the 134A, the compressor made a lot of noise. After the first summer with 134A, the pressure popped the relief valve and vented all the 134 out of the system. No such problems with 152A yet.

IDK, had R12 in a few of the cars back in the 95-2000 time frame, and they were COLD. Did two R134A conversions in the early 2000's and was really unimpressed. Like drive around with the A/C on full blast and question yourself if it's really any cooler than just rolling down the windows. R152A is the only retrofit that comes close to R12, but then I haven't tried the myriad of R12 substitutes. The ability to buy the R152A off the shelf at Walmart made it an easy choice. I figure it's more likely to leak out harmlessly than any other failure.

 

That's what I like about R152A. Lower pressures and not flammable. I think with a bit of tweaking it should work better for me. The car I converted is black, so it is tough to cool. This summer I am doing the TTA, and I think the results will be better.

 

Isn't R152A computer dust spray?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1-Difluoroethane

 

Can it be combined wit R12 or 134?

 

I don't think it should be mixed. Yes - it is computer dust spray. Buy it in the duster cans and use a side tap to charge with it.

 

This is the kind of temps I was getting AT IDLE with R152a in a R134a system. Used the smaller red ford orifice tube in the front and untouched expansion valve in the rear. I should also say the Express van is reaching those vent temps with a 25% underdrive crank pulley and a mechanical fan from a Duramax. I had to change the cycling switch to am adjustable one and actually increase the cutout pressure to keep the evaporator from freezing.







The M56s has a high mileage untouched system. I added exactly 1 can of duster air from a 3 pack that I carried home inside the car, FWIW for you flamability nuts. Yea I carried the package home with 3 times the volume of what is inside the system inside my car.

 

Duracool is very close to what I ran in my Dakota for several years. I had a brew of 50/50 Isobutane& Propane. That truck would freeze you out of it on the hottest day within minutes.

 

So glad I have ~25lbs of R12 still

 

So mixing the 134 and 152 wasn't a problem for you.

 

I did not mix them. Started with empty systems, vacuumed them down and charged in the R152a.

 

I found some at a few swap meets. Still trying to find the alternatives too.

 

An R134A system was designed to work best with inefficient R134a refrigerant. I could see it working a lot better with the R152A. And yes-you are right. It is a Bunch of BS about the R152A being flammable.
How much R152A did you charge the system with, and what was the original capacity of the system with R134A?

 

I got it in a 30lb tank. Should last me the rest of my life and for multiple projects

 

That's what I used. Was very pleased with it.

At the time, bought it from Fox Tool & Supply under the DuraCool name. Now it's Bennett Supply, and it's called HC-12A. Don't know if that's the vendor changing brands, or the product changing names.

http://bennettsupply.net/HC-12a.htm

 

IIRC the duster cans I used are about 10oz each.

The 2011 Infiniti M56S has a 1.21 lbs system. ICE COLD with one 12oz can. The Express van is 4.25 lbs. Took about 5 cans. You probably lose 1-2 oz out of each can. I watch the pressures and feel the temperature of the return line coming out of the evaporator. Once it starts to get cool to the touch I slow the charge rate substantially and creep up on the correct charge. Its not an exact science. So looking at the measurements the Express van was about 75% R134a charge and the Infiniti about 50%. Infiniti might have worked better with more refrigerant but it is an orifice tube system and the low side line was in the 34*F range at idle. High side pressure was noticeably lower on both systems than R134a.