TPIJeep,

So far your the only other person here that I know of who has DFI 7. It's tough to find info on it anywhere. Everywhere I turn it seems if they have info it's for 6.xx but not 7. I know it's new but the adaption rate of this unit is super slow, do you know why?

Anyway back to what I wanted to ask was about turning the batch fire TPI system to sequential fire. I know about the dual sync distributor required, what else did you need?

Thanks

Edit: title changed to reflect the change in course this thread has taken

 

The Gen 7 system only needs the Dual Sync distributor which provides cam and crank position inputs to run in Seqential mode. There are other distributors that will work but the Accel unit is the cheapest.

I am still waiting for mine to be dropped shipped from Accel and I think there are several people that are running the Gen 7 but I have not been lucky enough to run across them..

Heck we will start the Gen 7 tech area right here..

CYA

 

the gen vii software is very easily overtuned. they have a lot of options and if you dont know what each map does you are in for trouble

other problem....there isn't a lot of online tech support for it. Where as the FAST system and even the holley system has a lot more which makes things much much easier

took accel a long time to come out with the gen vii and its just in time to catch up with the new FAST system....too bad they will also soon release a another new computer and accel will play catchup once again

 

89ProchargedROC: By your posting you obviously must be familiar and have experience with the the Accel Gen7, FAST, and Holley systems. Can you tell us what makes the Gen7 system so easily "overtuned" and the others can't?

From the information I have seen, and as I understand it, the FAST system was simply an updated version of the "old" Accel 6.0 system so the new Accel Gen7 isn't "catching up" with the FAST system but is actually ahead of it. It appears from the information I have read, FAST is hoping to come out with a new system to "catch up" with the new Accel Gen7 so it appears to be the opposite of what you have found.

There are many of us that are interested in these systems and factual, unbiased information is very hard to find. You seem to know the answers so please expand upon the tuning issues and give us documented information so we can make an educated decision when deciding which to purchase.

No BS, No opinions, No hearsay, just the facts and this post is not intended to start a flame war. It's simply to gather actual documented information to educate the masses.

 

Well, i guess you could say that the original FAST system (when it was called Fel-Pro) was an updated DFI 6.0

but, some people just called it that because it still looked similar to the DFI software but was different.

The main thing that makes the FAST so desirable is the wideband 02 feature. It makes tuning and programming SO much easier. All you have to do is setup the A/F table and then watch and see how much the wbo2 is correcting the VE numbers you put into the VE table.

So for example, you put in a VE in the light load section of (this is just for example) 50.....you are driving with a buddy and you see that the wb02 is correcting for -8% fuel. So all you have to do is add 8% fuel to the surrounding cells where the bubble is and that *should* take care of it. And you keep doing this until you have all your 02 corrections between 0-5%.

Now, i will admit that the Gen VII is a VERY nice system and has a lot of more features that the FAST system does not and that is simply because it has more inputs/outputs.

Some things i like about the Gen VII is that every box has the option for sequential firing.......it is just up to YOU the end user to get the right signals for it to work. It also has VE table estimators to get you started. It also doesn't have to be "re-flashed" like the FAST system does for different types of ignitions either which is nice. The Gen VII box also isn't specific to any type of engine/ignition BECAUSE of what i previously just said. For example, you think you have a problem with your box. All you do is get another box and load your program and see if that was the problem. Whereas with the FAST you would need to have the same type of ignition/fuel setup to try that

I really believe the Gen VII is a superior system to the FAST setup, but not for the average user. The software has ALOT of options and maps to tune and it is hard to tune. Another reason i dont like the new system is that there are still TOO FEW tuners who really understand how to use it which will limit how fast and how well your engine gets tuned.

From what i've been told the Gen VII was designed for those people who are wanting to convert from a Carb car to the best fuel injection system possible and have it drive like a car from the factory. Since most of us already started with fuel injection, many of us will tolerate a slightly less perfect system because we are used to it (if that makes sense)

Lastly, the online tech support for the FAST system and even the holley is THERE. From what i can tell the Accel has been non-existant but i have noticed a few accel techs popping up on the net recently. This makes a big difference for the end user. Go to www.turbobuick.com and www.chevytalk.com and see how often craig/lance reply for the FAST system and how often Doug Flynn repsonds for the holley system (craig responds over there too)

That was the real decision for me and why i got the FAST system and not the Gen VII.

If you would like to look at the Gen VII software go download it from me:

http://members.telocity.com/~89proch...calmap2002.zip

 

89ProchargedROC, Thanks for your response.
I'm guessing from your response that you have only looked at the Gen7 demo software and haven't actually run a Gen7 system on a vehicle? Am I correct in this assumption?

Are you saying that FAST has a "new" system available that is different than when it was the FelPro/Speedpro system? If so, what are the part numbers and is it available now?

Also, from the information I have, the Gen7 is also available with a wide band O2 sensor option the same as the FAST system so that itself wouldn't make the FAST system more desireable or an advantage over the Gen7.

From what I have read, there are three different software packages available for the Gen7 (Standard, Advanced and PRO) to make the system less confusing and more "user friendly" depending upon the skill level of the end user and the intended use of the vehicle. (ie...street car, street/strip car, all out race car)

As for online support, the only places I have found the Gen7 system can be purchased is from Accel EMICS so information and technical support should only be a phone call or email away from whichever Accel EMIC the system is purchased from. I think they are required by Accel to provide technical support for the products that they sell.

Thanks again for the info. If anyone else has any additional info or "real world" experience with the Gen7 system or the other systems for that matter, I'm sure others would appreciate it. None of these systems are inexpensive and I want to acquire all the information I can to make an "educated" decision as to which to purchase before I spend my money.

 

your assumption is correct that i have not actually tuned a car with a Gen Vii. i've just played and parused around the software

FAST doesn't have a new system available at this time, but i have been told by a few people and craig has mentioned it on turbobuick that they will be coming out with a completely new box....when i'm not sure but i would bet its within a year and a half or so considering that i first heard about this almost a year and a half ago when the Gen VII was "supposed" to be released (they had a lot of bugs)

This is true that the Gen VII also has the wideband option but it makes the price significantly higher than the base wideband option from FAST

a bank-to-bank FAST system with wb02 should be around the $1800-$2000 range and the Gen VII is around $2500 with that option BUT, and that is a big BUT, the Gen VII can also be used as sequential and the sequential with wb02 FAST system is comparibly priced

So you really have to ask yourself if you really need that sequential option from the Gen VII. I will argue that anyone who buys these systems *should* purchase one with a wb02 sensor. Considering that a b2b system from FAST will support 800hp and even more, they say 800 because more than that and you need bigger injectors that dont idle well with b2b but you can make it work, do you really need those extra options from the Gen VII?
Will you ever use the 3 stages of nitrous that the Gen VII can support? and the questions can go on and on.....

it is up to you

 

We have the DFI 7 for my brother's 88 Iroc. We also got all the accessory harnesses. We are stilll in the process of removing the PITA stock wiring harness, so I haven't gotten a chance to form an opinion on it. The software is impressive though. We got it without the wideband option because it was advised not to. There's a dyno shop near us that has tuned quite a few DFI 7 systems, and say it's a very easy system to tune. From what I've seen in the software, it sure looks that way. It does help that I've programmed PROMs quite a few times, though.