Not sure if this is the right forum for this, but I'll give it a shot. I'm doing a cam swap in an L98. Going with something along the lines of a LT4 or ZZ9. Just wondering if I'll need a custom chip burned or not and if so, where/who do I get one from. I know I could buy the stuff and do it myself, but to use the stuff once, it's not worth it to me. Not to mention I'm computer illeterate. Thanx.

 

not trying to be rude or anything here....

i'm assuming the car you are going to do a cam swap on is the one in your sig...

you should figure out whats up with it before swapping cams...16-flat at 84mph out of an L98 means something is very seriously ill. like maybe you are pushing a dead cylinder or something... my more or less stock 91 L98 will run a 14.6-14.7 at 92-93mph on a 2.1 60-ft...

anyways to answer your question, to get the best results out of the cam, yes you should have a custom chip done, and ideally you should learn how to do it and do it yourself, you can't just mail order a chip that is right on for the combo. once you get into chip burning you'll find that there is so much you can do, that there's no way you'll just use it once. but at the same time, yes the engine will start and run without having a custom chip, it's just that you may be sacraficing power and performance over a chip setup for that combo.

 

Actually, those times are with the LO3 thats in the car. I have the L98 on the stand in the garage. I was trying to find someone that had the same combo as I will have that wouldn't mind burning me a copy of the chip they're running. I know I can't just go get a chip from TPIS or something and have it work perfectly. Thanx though, cause I know there are people out there that don't know this stuff.

If theres someone who does chip burning, let me know.

 

oh ok. Guess I shoudln't have assumed that the car in the sig had the L98 in it.

hopefully someone else might reply who might have some tuning ideas for you...

 

If you don't upgrade your chip your car may run poorly after the cam swap. As you are aware, the stock chip is calibrated to run with the stock engine. When you change the cam this can have a huge effect on the way air and fuel move in your engine. Without the chip you may get a poor running engine or simply not the most power from the combination. I will again say that you should seriouly consider learning to burn your own chips. Believe me you will not use it only once. Maybe once a week!!

Try and contact Fastchips. I have heard good things from them and their prices and service seem to be resonable.

 

ok ive sat quiet to long now. dont call fast chips. email me at

djfreggens@aol.com
im in essex

 

I never used them, Fastchips that is, but a friend did and he was happy I guess.

I burn my own and really enjoy it.

 

funstick, you have mail

Thanx for the info guys. I'm seriously considering doing it myself. It just seems overwhelming.

 

yeah i sent you mail. is your car TBI or TPI??

 

It can be tough to get going by yourself. I have been playing with it for over a year now off and on and could not get it right. If you have the patience -and- the aptitude to do it, then it's possible. However, being in the PC field for 8 years, and 6 years as an Information Systems Manager (same co.), I would think that it would have been a little easier for me. I think perhaps I got off on the wrong foot, and was working backwards from there. I am headed in the right direction now, thanks to some guidance. BTW, funstick is the man you want to talk to. :hail: The camaro is like a -whole- different car now. I actually can enjoy just driving it now, without having to worry about all the crap that I was getting used to. (constant stalling, difficult restarts, over rich, crappy idle, spark knockin' like a disco, and the list goes on...) It's cool being comfortable to take long trips, drives with the family, sitting in traffic, and all the other things that I only could do with the daily drivers. Thanks again funstick, you rock! :hail:

 

hey eric im still waiting for the BIN that your running now so we can make the final set of mods. email me some data logs form winaldl with the usuall driving for about 30-45 minutes scheme. try to keep the driving varied. a little WOT and suchs is fine. i think i found the detonation problem i just need to see exactly which bin we are on. anyways man talk at you later.

 

funstick
Email me offsite
ERC

 

It's too, not to.
As in, this is TOO funny.

 

hey grumpy whats so funny ??? i dont have problems working with maf do you ?? i dont think so. did you enjoy the other things that have been posted over at diy-prom ??? i've put up slews of info on how to work with maf. i dont yet have a good simple way to tune the $31T just yet but give it time ill figure out something. and you cant argue with result. if you want to say something to me email it.

 

As a matter of fact I don't have any MAF problems and I do understand how they work.

Yes, I enjoy the stuff at DIY-PROM since most of the accurate stuff is what I posted there.

Ya, a slew of infor., and you didn't even know what kind of MAF sytem your car used, and you were talking about tuning it.

Well if you and those like you weren't into cashing in on the work of others, I'd be around to explain the 31T stuff to you again.

MAF tuning is a piece of cake, plan and simple. It's been saved as a sticky, that I posted along time ago.

 

oooh so lets see here. you obivously related data for the $31t tunning to the whole maf spectrum. this is a bad idea. the 870 $1f the 302 $3a the 165 $32 $32b. the $6e and the $31t sort of use the same type of fuel logic. they both calculate PW based on incoming airflow.

but what you dont see is what i see. i see a way to work around the hassle of dealing with the math and hit or miss or working with the MAF table to lie to the ecm. your stil very narrowy focused. still thinking just about what yoru doing.

to make the statement that i dont understand how maf works is a joke. a maf for the lack of a better description is a airspeed meter. it simply determines airspeed by using a hotwire cooled by incoming airflow to cool it. the cooler the AIR the larger drop in tempature and the higher the output frequncy of the meter. this is also conversly true. the hotter the air the lower the tempature drop across the wire the lower the resistance the lower the output FQ to the ECM. but then this statement is also true. the higher the MAF output FQ the more air the ECM see's as incoming. the reason te MAF systems dont require and IAT sensor is becuase the airflow meter already accounts for this with the way it physically measures airflow. the IAT is great fro detonation prone motors but is not nessacary like it is with a SD system.

as for the MAF table themselsve all they really are is a way to convert input MAF FQ to the ECM into a workable value. example

maf FQ 36 = 1324 counts
now the ECM needs to know what the airlfow rate is at that particular FQ. this is where the confusion is. in the real world this is just about 3grams of air per sec with a stock size GM delco MAF the card style used on the 302 ecm found in 2.8 V6 cars. but with a Bosch sensor found in the TPI camaros and the GN's its a totalye different value.

so you end up with MAF FQ 36hz = 1324 = 3grms air pr sec.

i think i have gotten a bit off the subject here. either way your total hostility towards people in general is just totaly uncalled for.
as i have stated in the past if you dont wish to speak with me or other people that you believe are stealing your work( har har) then dont. either way continue to delude yourself all you would like.

to get this far with MAF ive spent alot time with it. as for working with the $6e or $31t its not to bad once you understand the relationship that is working to produce injector PW. i got my hands on a decent hack and im beggining to see a way to work with it. thats a bit esier than just stabbing in values and hoping its close. try being open minded and sharing with people.

 

So now it's an air speed meter?.
Ow, come on now. please.
The name says it MASS.
Not speed, not jelly beans, mass.

Does being open minded mean accepting the air speed meter theory of your's?.
No thanks.
I've shared for years, pal, and just got tired of alledged experts trying to cash in on the work of others.

Oww, and doing chips for a year now, owwww.

 

ahh yeah its an airspeed meter. it uses air velocity to cool a wire.
then from the temperature drop across the wire and the corresponding change in resistance it create an output VOUT or FQ.that makes it an airspeed meter. if you know airspeed through an orrifice then you can predict total CFM.

ooh and BTW i told Nasty_bird_90 that if he wanted to use my equipment he could. and i would help him out. i also made this offer to another member on this board who is in my area. so yet again why do you feel so threatened??

 

jeze guys..too much arguing, no problem solving!

courtesy http://www.weekendmechanicsclub.com/ACDelco/vobeng1.htm:
what this means, in english:

The MAF sensor directly measures a combination of volume AND density. Now, if you know the density (related to humidity and temperature), then you could solve for volume. Then, if you knew the size of the orifice that the volume was being measured through, then you could mathmatically determine velocity. But does the ECM care? no.
Why?
When you burn fuel and air in a chamber, you are trying to reach a ratio.. so many grams of fuel to so many grams of air. You aren't trying to burn 35mph of air and 2 grams of fuel.... you're trying to burn 14.7 grams of air and 1 gram of fuel.
now.. volume multipled by density is mass. So if the MAF sensor measures volume and density together simultaneously, then by default the data it reports is mass. This is great to the ECM, because the ECM needs to know the mass of air coming in, so it knows what mass of fuel to mix with it in order to achieve the desired air fuel ratio. This is the reason why MAF data is presented in grams. (more accurately grams per second).

A few other observations that can be drawn:
(1) if you pass the SAME volume of air through a MAF sensor, but simply vary it's density (by heating or cooling the air), then the MAF sensor will report different values.
(2) by the same token, if you pass different volumes of air through a MAF, but both volumes of air have the same density, the MAF will also report different values.
(3) If the MAF only measured velocity, then a change in temperature of the incoming air would not affect the reading (50mph of 0.0C air is just as fast as 50mph of 100.0C air). But, the MAF's output DOES vary with temp.
(4) high altitude operations. At 8000 ft level, the density of air is much less than at sea level. Because the MAF measures volume and density, you could flow the same volume of air through the MAF at sea level and then at 8000 ft level, and the MAF would report different mass (because the density is different). At higher altitude, it will report less mass. which means the ECM will spray less fuel (to keep the air- fuel ratio in balance). Less air ... less fuel .... less power. that's why engine power drops off with altitude. (this is, of course, ignoring the effects of air pressure, but that's another post altogether).

 

thanx that is the most elegant explantion ive ever seen of how a MAF sensor works. post that with the flow chart i put up over at the diy prom board. it would go well with it. potato pototo you get the picture.i think i lack the ability to express myself in type the way i do in person. either way the PW tunnign method ive been using on sevral ecms is workingery well. in fact witht eh 870 $1f and the 302 $3a its the only way to tune. there is no injector constant its all PW. but then i got to playing with $6E its a pita and the $32 $32b are easier to tune and give you identical driveability.also the $32b $32 could compensate with ease for a large maf housing where as the $6e would have to have the maf tables rescalle. yet again another needless nightmare.