i was wondering what the major advatage the gen VII has over the gen VI. I noticed there are a lot of gen VI's on ebay and the reason for sale always seems to be to upgrade to the gen VII. I was just wondering if I'd be wasting money by purchasing one of the gen VI's.

 

I'd get the Gen 7 if you can afford it. Many new features, better calibration software, and overall, just a better system. If you can't afford the Gen 7, there is nothing wrong with the older gen 6 boxes. Lots of people know how to work with them, so you should be able to get help pretty easily if you need it. The reason that you see so many on ebay is that most of those people have "gotten all they could" out of the Gen 6 boxes, and are upgrading to the newer system to improve their performance by using a more powerful, modern system.

 

they are that much better huh? based on the mods in my sig, do ou think I could sqeeze a grand's worth of performance out of a gen VII over a VI. I'm to the point where I've been patient and saved money to buy this and that and now i just want to get it done. However i don't want to skimp here at the end. I know a guy who drags Gran Nationals and he can get me a fel-pro fastsystem, I believe that's what it's called, for $1600. Are those better or worse than the ACCEL's. I'm just confused on which way I should go.

 

The big difference between GenVI & VII is that VII is Windows based and VI is DOS based. The overall user friendlyness has improved greatly not to mention the very cool montering screen with the air/fuel ratio right in the middle. From what I have read Gen VII will learn or build a fuel map while driving the vehicle. You can set air/fuel ratio for given RPM range and load. A enhanced data loging over Gen VI. There are many other improvements.

I have a Gen VI with a VIC(Varable Injector Controler) interfaced with the OEM ECM managing a 406 SBC in a 3720lb 87 IROC that runs 11.80's @ 115. It doespretty much everything I need it to do. I was considering upgrading to Gen VII but for 3000 to 3200 for VII and a new interface will not get me as much as 3 grand toward a 427 or 434 stroker.

Now if I was in the build up stage and did not have a Engine Management system I would go for Gen VII without a doubt. The Fast ECM is a few hundred cheaper than Gen VII and I have no personal experience with Fast software so I can only give you my preference from what I have read and working with Gen VI and that would be to go with Gen VII. Ok, a little long here, good luck!

 

i'm beginning to lean towards getting the fast system. it's priced in between the 2 and I know someone who can run it in their sleep.Although the gen VII sounds as if it's something to really look further into. other's opinions and thoughts are still welcome

 

i bought a gen7 on ebay for about 1400 brand new it did not come with a distributor or an ignition box. I went out and bought a laptop for it and the total is about 2 grand i am still putting it into the car at the moment but think it was a good deal. Let me know if you still want an accel gen7 i will email the guy i bought it from.

just my 2 cents

 

ok, I'll certainly keep that in mind. there is a gen VI on ebay I'm thinking about bidding on right now. Does any one know what the TC lock up harness sells for. I was told that in order to run a 700r4 and the dfi you need that adapter. I've been looking for a day or so and can't find a price on one anywhere and accel hasn't emailed me back yet. thanks for the help so far guys

 

Can anyone, demonstrate any advantage to an aftermarket ecm over oem?. Other then in a limited few cases where they're able to use P+H injectors, all your paying for is eye candy, IMO.
And don't forget when the Doublewammy 2000, goes potty, you're standed, unless your carrying a spare. Carrying a spare cost me $35.
If for some reason you think on-the-fly is a big deal for $188 you can use a Romulator, and do that with a stocker.

 

Come on.... You can't be serious.

Who wouldn't prefer a purpose-built system over trying to reverse-engineer someone else's design to cause it to do things that it wasn't meant to do?

Try these with your Romulator:

- Adding and tuning for a Blower.

- Overlaying a datalog file over your VE/Spark Table -- or data logging at all, for that matter.

- Controlling NOS.

- 2-Step Rev Limiting.

- Compensating for AC loads by tweaking your IAC position.

- Switching from Bank-to-Bank injecton to Sequential to see how differently your engine runs. Then switching back in a matter of minutes.

- Changing Torque Converter Lockup settings.


etc...

 

OK, item by item.

Adding a blower means using a 1227749 ecm and 5B software, Total cost $200+- and software designed by folks designing software for ecms for DECADES.

I have no need to overlay tables, so that's moot.

Controlling NOS?. Can use the EGR or Charcoal canister outputs, and even control DC.

IAC for A/C load, no problem.
Can you change the AFR for the A/C load as a function of IAC?.

No need for two staging the rev limiter.

I can do the batch to SEFI with the 1227148, takes flipping one switch in the code.

Changing TCC setting?
Absolutely no problem.


Can you use your $2,000 ecm to control a *E* series tranny?.
Can you sell replacement ecms for $50?
Can you release the code for someone to learn and improve upon?.
How about the way some of the aftermarkets key the WB O2s to the software so you have to spend $400 for a $130 sensor?

Other then Cutsie Eye Candy please elaborate on one advantage other then in some case where they can drive P+H injectors.

And with some freeware software I can watch all 255 memory locations. Can you do that?.
AND data log 6 extra channels.

Any other guestions?.

And since developing my own code, can do about anything I want with my ecm, ie changed from MAF to MAP and can run the two systems back to back, can you do that?.
And with some experimential software I have, a fully auto learn system. You got that?
And since having the injector drivers changed, the only thing different in my ecm is what I would have to GIVE UP to run an aftermarket one.

Edge board scanner $37
WB O2 $160
Junkyard ecm $50
Romulator $188
Freeware Software 0
Tunercat $100

Even paying for tuning software, which is also available for free, I can do everything you mentioned with the 6 channel data logging, and have a WB that I can use on any car.

Not to mention I can add state of the art knock detection strategies. And in my case I have a boost cut related to detonation. You got anything close?.

Looks like the aftermarkets still have a long way to go.
Oh, wait a min, they have Prettier Screens! ! !!!

Looks like your the one that needs to seriously review what you have or think you have. You have absolutely nothing on me.
And since I took the time to have source code for my ecm even if the aftermarkets figured out something new, I could add it to mine.

So I repeat, the aftermarkets have nothing over the oems. And with some work the oems are light years ahead of what the aftermarket guys are doing.

So yes, I am serious.

 

Grumpy, I think that you don't necessarily fall under the definition of Stock OEM PCM. That is very cool that you can do some of the stuff that the aftermarket guys have to offer, but don't think for a moment that you can't get spanked by someone running an aftermarket system, no matter what you do to your stock PCM.

As for light years ahead in technology, that's simply not true. OEM technology is about getting the vehicle to run it's best while being constrained by smog, safety, and other governing rules. Aftermarket R&D is done is the racing world, where those bonds are broken, and the only concern is about how fast is too fast, or maybe making too much power for your hard parts to withstand. The aftermarket is not about saving an extra 2 cents per PCM by using a transistor that has a 20x shorter MTBF rate, or contracting mexicans relocated to India to write PCM source code for 2 cents an hour.
I admit, since you can write your own code, your possibilities are unlimited. But that is not something that very many people should be trying on their own. Be realistic, how many people are capable of, or even interested in writing their own source code just to get their car calibrated? Good luck not dying while trying to test your latest brain fart. Let us know before you go testing, so we can avoid the roads that day.

 

Ah, so what you are saying is that your equipment is designed without regard to "smog, safety, and other governing rules"...

My goodness. Who came up with those company goals? Firestone?

Characterising your products as both unsafe AND illegal is kind of a novel sales approach. I'll bet your liability attorneys have some interesting stories to tell!

Also, I can't seem to find your answers to the previous questions:

"Can you use your $2,000 ecm to control a *E* series tranny?.
Can you sell replacement ecms for $50?
Can you release the code for someone to learn and improve upon?.
How about the way some of the aftermarkets key the WB O2s to the software so you have to spend $400 for a $130 sensor? "

Please tell me more, your marketing dept sounds like a fun place to work!

DrJ

 

Tell one, just one area where an aftermarket is actually better?.
The processor speed is moot, the engine is just loafing along time wise compared to even a 3MHz operating system. 32 bit is again just geek stuff. The aftermarkets have to try and hype something to get folks to spend the ridiculous amounts of money the aftermarkets charge.

The oems have a 100,000 mile emission warranty, in case anything goes wrong it has to be replaced AT NO COST TO THE OWNER. Tell me which aftermarket had to meet a min life cycle and offers free replacement for 7 years.

BTW, I actually know some guys that write code in MI, I think you're way out of line with you statement about where the code is written, as far as the 3rd Gen stuff goes. OBVIOUSLY the foreign stuff rebadged for the US market is written aboard, but that's to be expected. Since this board is 3 Gen specific I am correct when I say the code was written in the USA. Feel free to actually investigate your statements.

Why shouldn't folks be trying to learn code?.
I think it's insulting that you would say something like that. If you want to think like that then fine, also consider that using the same logic, that they shouldn't be even tuning their cars.

Owwwww, aren't you something.
I probably have more ecm bench time with my code, then you run your code thru. Beings that I'm not profit motivated like an aftermarket firm, I can spend all the time I want with my projects, and don't have to settle, for less then right, due to a deadline.

Die?.
Wow, your really over the top on that one.
Scare tactics are best left for the little kiddies.
Geesh, feel free to comment in a reasonable manner.

Brain Fart?.
Sounds like jealousy on your part.

BTW, which of the aftermarkets allow, Batch, SEFI, MAF, and MAP, options all in one unit?.
Which one uses the latest in Knock sensing technology that costs less then $4K?.
Runs a E series tranny?.
Uses a tranny/engine shift management strategy?.

Yes, your aftermarkets have a LONG way to catch up to the oems. In looking at the early to current aftermarkets, I see where your using more and more of the corrections of the oems. <G>

 

i like my gen 6 because im dumb as a rock. and ever since my dad and sister got themselves hitched up, im worrying about my new little brother too.

 

Grumpy, I see your point of view. For the last couple of years I have been playing with the OEM ecm using Wintuner, Diacom and the Pocket programmer . To say the least I am very frustrated with the programmer. I have tried it with Win 95,98, and XP and I cannot get it to work consistently. The company even upgraded me to a newer vesion of the programmer, the PPII and still I have the same problem, it actually doesn't work at all. I think there is a software compatibility issue and I am not the only one to have this problem.
Bottom line, I am considering switching to the Accel DFI gen VII or the FAST system.
Why? because I want reliablity and I don't want to waste anymore time dealing with hardware/software incompatibilities.
I am addressing this to you to see if you can help me deal with these issues permanently. As I have invested the money already, I would like to stay with the OEM ecm. (I would also switch from 165 to 730 ecm).

 

If your having that many problems getting PP to run what guaranntee is there that you'll get any other ecm to link or talk to your computer?.

I run my romulator, on basically trash laptops, anyone of 3 that I bought for less then $50. Same with PPI, and PPII.

Be a shame to spend over a $1K and still have a problem, IMO.

I'd find a laptop that worked with the cheap stuff before spending ALOT of money on a maybe answer.

The secret to HP is the ability to tune, eyecandy and other dodads are just marketing.

 

I agree, but maybe I wasn't clear enough in my last post. The laptops are not the issue. I use a cheap laptop as well for the scanner and it works ok. The problem arises with the PPII. I have tried the PPII on 3 different pc's and have been unsuccessful at getting the software to recognoze the PP.
I am still messing around with it as I haven't totally given up, yet!