BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

I have been looking into the DIY prom stuff but I think the DFI stuff will be a lot better for my application. So, with that said, I have a few questions, first off I am eyeing the Accell DFI setup. I take it that version 7 is the latest one out? Where can i get a little more info on this setup, mainly pricing and options. I am running a SD setup already. Is there any internet place that offers good deals? what options if any should I consider,WBO2? what about running the rest of the cars stuff like gauges and stuff? I already have a laptop so that is out of the way. Iam running a 383 10:1CC stealth ram, AFR 190's 224/230 .503/.510. does Accell offer a starting point for "my" specific setup with the kit when buying it new?

aDFIguy

More info, catalogs, software...can be found Here.

WB O2 is about the only $$$ option that the base kit does not include. It's not necessary although it does make tuning much easier. Getting things dialed in using the narrowband sensor is not too tough if you have a good understanding of what you are doing. To get you going initially, the interface software will create a base fuel map that should safely start and run the engine.

It's possible to retain the stock PCM to run gauges and stuff, you could look at an adapter harness that will piggyback the DFI ECM into the stock harness. These guys sell those Here.

Kits need to be purchased through a dealer, they typically start around $1700 or so for a fully sequential setup including ECM, harness, all sensors, and programming cable/software. Call the DFI tech line @ 248 380 2780 and they can hook you up with a dealer.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

is there a difference between the sensors i have now and the ones on the DFI kit? I just bought all new GM sensors a few monthes back and spent a pretty penny on them. Isnt there a DFI box that uses the stock GM wiring harness or am missing something here. What is the difference between the harnesses.

88TPI406GTA

Actually, depending on your budget...A DFI 6 setup would probably work well for you. It uses all GM sensors, GM ECM connectors (Packard) and is fairly easy to tune and can be had fairly cheaply. I have tuned with it a bit and bought a book. Previous owner installed it on my Camaro I just bought due to a TBI to TPI swap.

Given that though...I am pulling it off my car. My engine is a stock L98 and I plan on driving it in the winter. Since it will be a daily driver, I want the "generic" tune from the factory...and the stock ECM.

I would say that you could EASILY repin your ECM connectors to work with the DFI, especially since you have a TPI setup. I have done a LOT of research on this and the wiring charts are pretty straight forward.

Also, the CALMAP 6.32 software is really easy to use...

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

what do you mean re pin my ECM? Are you saying that I will have to keep my stock ECM hooked up to run the car or just hooked up to run the gauges and any other stuff that is not powered by the DFI box? what happens to the stock sencors and harness I have in ther car now? Also, what makes you think the DFI 6 is better for me? What is the difference between the 6 and 7? Is the 6 able to be used in realtime on a laptop? How is yours setup? You put a price on your setup yet to sell it? Im new to this so please dont mind some of the questions.

PS. in the long run, I want a setup that will dial my nitrous in, work in realtime, and possibly run with a WB02. The WBO2 is not a deciding factor if I can find a used DFI 6 fairly cheap though. I also want a system that can be upgraded or updated if need be.

aDFIguy

The ONLY reason to consider a used DFI 6 system over almost anything else is cost. It would be a less than intelligent alternative if you can afford anything better.

The sensors that are included in the Gen 7 kit are mostly GM-style. You'd have to buy a separate adapter to plug the DFI into the stock harness unless you want to rewire your harness to match the pinout on the DFI ECM -- but the Gen 7 has other features (like 3 Stage Nitrous I/O, 2-Step, MST, Serial Communications...etc) that aren't supported by the stock harness and would require additional wiring.

88TPI406GTA

Bottled Z28: I am talking about repinning the ECM CONNECTORS, the ones that plug into the back of the ECM, not the ECM itself. It is pretty straight forward, once you have a wiring diagram that shows what each pin is going to.

I am familiar with the DFI ECM 6 wiring diagrams as I am preparing to go back to stock. The actual wires being used as pretty much the same as the stock ECM because the DFI 6 uses the same sensors…and it is actually more easily to wire in a DFI setup because there isn’t emissions to deal with. It is pretty similar to a stock SD setup, but a LOT easier to actually tune.

Our cars do not use a “PCM” (Powertrain Control module). The only ECM control for the trans is a TCC lockup for automatics trans, which you do not have anyway. This makes it a simpler swap. Also “ECM” refers to either the stock computer or an aftermarket one, like the DFI ECM.

As for the ECM controlling gauges…what gauges does it control? Oil pressure, coolant temp, fuel, battery are all independent of the ECM. Speedo doesn’t go through the ECM to get to the guage…there is a signal that goes to the ECM, but the ECM isn’t necessary for a functional speedo…as far as I know.

Reasons for a DFI? Realtime access to tune on the fly…with simple spreadsheets and graphs to actually change parameters. I have the Prom-burning stuff too, but the DFI was a much easier learning curve…I did a few hours of reading and hooked up the laptop to the DFI and was on my way. One really needs a WB O2 sensor to tune properly regardless of ECM type.

The harness probably doesn’t have to be modified, just change the pins on the connectors to match the DFI connectors.

As for cost, a used DFI setup with ECM, cable, software, books, etc can be had for a LOT less that the $1700 that a new DFI 7 requires. Yes, the DFI 7 is more advanced, but you pay for it. I would rather spend the $$$ on my car. And the standard DFI kit doesn’t come with a WB O2 sensor anyway…you would be better off to buy a standalone kit for the WB O2 sensor and use it to tune independent of the ECM.

Lastly, contact me via email or PM to discuss my DFI 6 setup, if you are interested.


ADFIguy: Cost is a factor in any parts swap…while the DFI 7 is more advanced, you pay for it. It has some improvements, like the ones that you listed, but the bells and whistles aren’t always required. The DFI 6 setup can support an engine making 700+ horsepower, while simple to use.

Clint E.

Go to white racing and marine Plug and play for Accel DFI and FAST, re use your stock harness and all sensors install is very easy, check it out. I would also look at www.bigstuff3.com its desinged by the guys that originally designed the ACCEL and FAST systems and can also re-use your stock sensors.

maniacc

Stay away from the White Racing harness....far, far, away....i learned this from first hand experience....and ALOT of help from aDFIguy...thank you again!!!

Later
Larry

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

why? are they the only source for a plug and play harness setup

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

also, if I choose to run a bank t bank setup then I dont need the MSD dual sync dist correct. I can still reuse my pro billet one I have now along with my 6AL?

maniacc

I had to do alot of modifying to get the harness to work correctly...aDFIguy supplied a link to fastrack performance...they also sell a plug and play harness for the DFI units...

Yes, you can run your MSD box and billet dist on the Bank to Bank, you'll need the dual or cam and crank triggers to run sequential...

Right now i'm running a MSD 6 BTM (same as 6AL but with built-in boost retard control) and a MSD pro billet dist. with no problems.

later
larry

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

ok sounds good so far, say I could get a DFI 6 setup, would I be buying something thatis basically obsolete where no shop will work with it anymore? I looked for the plug and play setup on that site fasttrack and didnt see it on the site but I will look again.

88TPI406GTA

I have heard decent times about Fast Track Performance...but depending on what you go with, you don't need a harness...because it would be VERY similar to what you are already running...

BTW...buying a DFI 5 setup would be obsolete as I don't believe it controls timing...

DFI 6, DFI 7, Holley Commander 950, etc. all control full fuel and spark timing and I believe they all can use the stock TPI distributor. I know the DFI 6 does.

biggtime

Unless you are on a tight budget, don't buy old technology. Buy the dfiv7 you will be much happier. shop around you should be able to buy it for around 1500.00 complete. Depending on who you buy it from they may even keep the sensors and knock the price down for you.
I origionally was going to use a *cheaper* wide band solution but then realised what i would save in cash would hamper me in technology moving forward.
We have 2 cars running almost the same combo as yours, both with the DFIV7, and we love them. Since the other person does no tuning, or datalogging he did not buy the WBO2.
There is no bonus to running sequential either. We have run both save your money from the dual sync. distributer and use it on the WB.

aDFIguy

Some facts about the DFI 6.0...

- You can't buy it new anymore
- Existing units can't be upgraded other than to different ignition configurations.
- Can't run low impedance injectors without a VIC -- oops, they're not available anymore either
- Can't run a Wideband O2 unless you get one of the very rare units that were modified to use one
- Accessory parts are almost out of stock
- If something breaks on it, it's a min of $200 to get it looked at -- read the fine print here.
- No guarantee that it can be fixed, some of the electronics on the board are not available anymore
- The software runs in DOS only, it's getting tough to find anyone that will deal with it anymore

I can't recommend the dan white harnesses either. Here's more info on that subject. Definitely try someone else if you need an adapter.

askulte

I'm running the DFI6, and originally repinned my '89 Camaro harness to run the DFI. It's really not that difficult once one you have the pinouts for the DFI and your ECM. Since you're already speed density, you shouldn't need to add anything extra wires. Besides, if you do it yourself, it'll probably be a better job than having another set of connectors/wires (plug n play adapter) that can go bad...

biggtime

I know of sombody else that used one of those adapters for his syclone. Same problem, they tried to run all of the injectors of one driver, naturally that went bad quick.

88TPI406GTA

aDFIguy: Your points prove just exactly WHY it can be had so cheap and yet, it is still a reliable, valid setup. As for the WB O2 setup, hypothetically, it would be nice to have an ECM that would directly control the WB O2...but not for the $$$. That is why so many people buy the standalong WB O2 kit for $350 or so.

I agree that the wow factor of the newest setups are great, but again, not for the price. Obviously, you feel differently.

Andris: Aren't you worried about running your TT setup on such an obsolescent piece of DOS-interfaced technology?

Grumpy

And some of us can remember why,

If you make it to Fred's next month, hopefully I'll have the GN there and show ya what can now be done with a lowly GM ecm

Actually 2 GM ecms. Since I have it running on the original one, and 749 ecm. Not to mention several different programs, for each ecm.

88TPI406GTA

Grumpy, I was waiting for someone with your GM ECM experience to post...although I thought it may be Rbob

The funny thing is that after reading and experimenting around with the stock GM ECMs for a few years, I see the flexibility and potential there...but that learning curve was tough for me and I am really good with computers, but not a programmer. It really is something that you have to immerse yourself in to understand it.

Not to hijack the thread and spin it off into the great beyond, but as I think about it, I would rather spend the time and money on tuning with the GM ECM, rather than spend $1700 on a DFI 7 or FAST setup.

Just my opinion though...

askulte

Bruce - I'll be over at Fred's Friday night (wanna do a time trials at Pocono North on Sun, Sept 12 if you're on the east coast already?), but have to split out Saturday morning. I like it because I already have it wired in, and working. I'm sure I'd be just as happy with a GMECM, but it takes a while to get the learning curve and re-pinned. If there's an advantage, it can always be a winter project. Right now my biggest complaint is that the timing pulled from the knock module takes to long to decay back to normal. Other than that, I turn the key, car starts, runs well on the track, I'm happy I was thinking of using a GM ECM as a piggy back data logger, though.

Originally, I had the DFI6 running bank to bank with the stock '89 wiring harness. This put 4 injectors to each driver, so I think I may have piggy backed two driver outputs together to drive each bank (don't remember details now, but should have a pinout that I used listed in the www.skulte.com/logbook.html.). Now, I've got the Acceleronics low imp driver box spliced in between the injectors and DFI, and one injector per driver.

Right now, I just installed a larger BOV, and made a bead forming tool w/ some old visegrips because all my intake piping would blow apart on WOT up shifts. If this doesn't work, time to bolt them together...

9secIROC

***What upgrades would you need? I've used the Gen 6 on 11 sec cars to a 7 second 615 Big Chief NOS motor with 15:1

***I've been running low impedance 72lb MSD's for 5 years with no problems and without a VIC. Just make sure to utilize all 4 injector drivers in the DFI Gen 6 box.

***Buy a standalone wideband logger for half the price of the wideband option in the Gen 7 or FAST systems.

***The DFI box won't go bad unless you short it out. My box is over 9 years old and probably about 80K street miles***

**** True, but for the price of a Gen 7 or FAST, you can buy 3 Gen 6 boxes used***


****Even better, all you would need is a 486 laptop for 20 bucks on EBAY*****

**** I've bought 6 harnesses (Ford and Chevy) from Dan without any problems. You should have returned the harness to Dan. I'm sure he would have corrected the problem.****


The Gen 6 is more than enough for a 7 sec car. Its all in the tuning