I'm completely uneducated when it comes to stand alone systems, but from what I've been talking about to my car friends and reading on the forums, it's time to step up, bite the bullet, and get one and learn. From what I'm understanding and be told, the MSII-3.0 is a stand alone that uses mostly GM type sensors.
I've got a 91 Trans Am, HSR, Dart Pro 1 heads, XFI 468-8 cam, 11.2/1 CR.
I'm wanting to convert to E85, hence the need for tuning capabilities. I know a guy here in town that has a Dynojet for tuning and his tuner has quite a bit of MS experience. I will eventually have the need for a boost application, but will be an NA/Nitrous setup for now. Mainly just wanting to get E85 compatible.
Questions I got:
I can solder pretty good and could probably assemble a board given good instructions. Is it worth saving the extra money, or should I just buy the board assembled? If I buy it already assembled, will I get better customer service if I ever do have a problem with it and need to send it in to be serviced?
Is this a plug and play type of a system, or do you have to splice into your stock wiring. Keep in mind I'm running Speed Density and not a MAF. I can't seem to find a harness on DIYautotune or msefi.com. I guess I'm not really sure on the physical installation. Do you get rid of your factory ECM altogether and plug this into your factory harness or what?
Does this affect anything else? Speedometer, Tach, etc? I'm running a manual trans, so no need really for TC lockup.
I've got a 91 Trans Am, HSR, Dart Pro 1 heads, XFI 468-8 cam, 11.2/1 CR.
I'm wanting to convert to E85, hence the need for tuning capabilities. I know a guy here in town that has a Dynojet for tuning and his tuner has quite a bit of MS experience. I will eventually have the need for a boost application, but will be an NA/Nitrous setup for now. Mainly just wanting to get E85 compatible.
Questions I got:
I can solder pretty good and could probably assemble a board given good instructions. Is it worth saving the extra money, or should I just buy the board assembled? If I buy it already assembled, will I get better customer service if I ever do have a problem with it and need to send it in to be serviced?
Is this a plug and play type of a system, or do you have to splice into your stock wiring. Keep in mind I'm running Speed Density and not a MAF. I can't seem to find a harness on DIYautotune or msefi.com. I guess I'm not really sure on the physical installation. Do you get rid of your factory ECM altogether and plug this into your factory harness or what?
Does this affect anything else? Speedometer, Tach, etc? I'm running a manual trans, so no need really for TC lockup.
It would take modification of your existing SD harness, the only adapter is for the MAF TPI, or TBI systems.
As far as kit or pre-assembled that won't make a difference, in post purchase support, especially from diyautotune.
Have you looked into what's available for tuning your existing ECM? There is plenty of real time tuning options available, that will keep many of the features you would lose or would have to find other ways to deal with, such as VSS, and any VSS controlled items, unless you went with MS3, that has some VSS controlled parameters. You would also stay emissions compliant retaining the OEM ECM.
FWIW, I use GM ECMs in my conversions. I have one (1227749), running my turbo 2.8L I6 in my 1973 Datsun 240Z. 
There are different ways to tune the OEM ECM, one being non real time, using only chips a programmer and datalogging. You can add an emulator, like the Moates.net Ostrich 2.0 (That's what I use), or www.dynamicefi.com has just released their EBL for the P4 style (1227730/1227749) ECMs.
As far as kit or pre-assembled that won't make a difference, in post purchase support, especially from diyautotune.
Have you looked into what's available for tuning your existing ECM? There is plenty of real time tuning options available, that will keep many of the features you would lose or would have to find other ways to deal with, such as VSS, and any VSS controlled items, unless you went with MS3, that has some VSS controlled parameters. You would also stay emissions compliant retaining the OEM ECM.
FWIW, I use GM ECMs in my conversions. I have one (1227749), running my turbo 2.8L I6 in my 1973 Datsun 240Z. There are different ways to tune the OEM ECM, one being non real time, using only chips a programmer and datalogging. You can add an emulator, like the Moates.net Ostrich 2.0 (That's what I use), or www.dynamicefi.com has just released their EBL for the P4 style (1227730/1227749) ECMs.
So you're saying everything can be made to work if I went with the MSIII?
I'm not too worried about emissions. Iowa has no laws concerning them, so it's no big deal. As far as using the existing ECM, I guess I wouldn't be opposed if I could find something decently cheap and had the capability to tune in real time. Definitely not wanting to log, then download, then burn a prom. This car is going to serve several needs, so I'm wanting to be able to drop a new pre calibrated tune in whenever I want to.
I'm not too worried about emissions. Iowa has no laws concerning them, so it's no big deal. As far as using the existing ECM, I guess I wouldn't be opposed if I could find something decently cheap and had the capability to tune in real time. Definitely not wanting to log, then download, then burn a prom. This car is going to serve several needs, so I'm wanting to be able to drop a new pre calibrated tune in whenever I want to.
Look in the DIY-Prom forum, for specifics.
Many users, myself included use the www.moates.net Ostrich 2.0 eprom emulator with MEMCAL adaptor (G1 IIRC). Also the ALDL cable for logging and Tuner Pro RT for software and you can tune real time.
You can use the stock code, I assume you have the 1227730 ECM and $8D for code (Stock '90 to '92 Speed density code), which can be tuned, and has even been improved to add more to the VE tables and extra functions.
When you go forced induction you can swap out your MAP sensor and drop in $59 (www.code59.org) into your existing ECM (upload to the emulator) and have very good forced induction code with support. This is what I am using in my Datsun currently.
Another option as I had mentioned but a bit more expensive is the P4 EBL from www.dynamicefi.com, that is new tuner friendly. It also has some extra functions that are added, and the owner of that company is a member here (Rbob).
The MS3 is the first MS I would consider using since MS started more than 10 years ago. But for the price it doesn't add anything the Delco ECM can't do. You have to add the MS3X board, in order to add any extra functionality (outside of onboard logging), being SFI and sequential ignition, which I find to be more hype than needed and really only helps emissions for the most part. The only exception I see or rather, a benefit in a performance application is when using huge injectors on a small displacement engine. Also consider that, as far as I know, there is no on board diagnostics like the OEM ECM has.
Many users, myself included use the www.moates.net Ostrich 2.0 eprom emulator with MEMCAL adaptor (G1 IIRC). Also the ALDL cable for logging and Tuner Pro RT for software and you can tune real time.
You can use the stock code, I assume you have the 1227730 ECM and $8D for code (Stock '90 to '92 Speed density code), which can be tuned, and has even been improved to add more to the VE tables and extra functions.
When you go forced induction you can swap out your MAP sensor and drop in $59 (www.code59.org) into your existing ECM (upload to the emulator) and have very good forced induction code with support. This is what I am using in my Datsun currently.
Another option as I had mentioned but a bit more expensive is the P4 EBL from www.dynamicefi.com, that is new tuner friendly. It also has some extra functions that are added, and the owner of that company is a member here (Rbob).
The MS3 is the first MS I would consider using since MS started more than 10 years ago. But for the price it doesn't add anything the Delco ECM can't do. You have to add the MS3X board, in order to add any extra functionality (outside of onboard logging), being SFI and sequential ignition, which I find to be more hype than needed and really only helps emissions for the most part. The only exception I see or rather, a benefit in a performance application is when using huge injectors on a small displacement engine. Also consider that, as far as I know, there is no on board diagnostics like the OEM ECM has.
That's definitely something else I'll look into. Basically, the Ostrich 2.0 plugs into where the Prom would be on your stock ECM via an adapter cable (G1)? Do I got this right? And then, the only thing else I would need to buy is the Tuner Pro software and an ALDL cable to run from the Ostrich 2.0 to my laptop? Is it hard to find base tunes for that system?
Sorry for all the questions. I'm obviously not very informed on the subject. Only people I know that really have something like this have Mustangs and have plug and play systems or hand held programmers. I'm actually an Electrician Superintendent and got a bit of DC and electronic wiring experience, so I KNOW most of this isn't out of my capabilities. I'm just trying to understand the physical aspect of the wiring and what's needed. The tuning aspect I'll leave up to my tuner and the dyno.
Sorry for all the questions. I'm obviously not very informed on the subject. Only people I know that really have something like this have Mustangs and have plug and play systems or hand held programmers. I'm actually an Electrician Superintendent and got a bit of DC and electronic wiring experience, so I KNOW most of this isn't out of my capabilities. I'm just trying to understand the physical aspect of the wiring and what's needed. The tuning aspect I'll leave up to my tuner and the dyno.
We all start somewhere.
The G1 is not a cable, it is a MEMCAL adapter that allows the hardware side of the MEMCAL to be retained, that has a resistor network for Limp Home Mode, Hardware Cylinder select and the knock filter. The other side has an EPROM socket and that is where the Ostrich (or other emulator) plugs into. The other cable that plugs into the Ostrich 2.0 is a simple USB cable. Uploading the bin happens directly through this cable. You can retreive the bin through this cable as well, but that is usually not needed. Also used for some two way communication in vehicles that use a different type of data tracing than the GM ECMs use, I only mention it for information sake.
The ALDL cable plugs into your ALDL connector under the dash, and is what your laptop uses to datalog through.
Tuner Pro RT will be fully functional when downloaded for free, but there is a 10 second "nag box" at start up for non-registered copies. Mark Mansur works very hard on Tuner Pro and is I feel it is worth the $35 donation to help support the software.
Files are generally pretty easy to find, through sites like this one, the DIY PROM forum has stickies that go through a lot of the ins and outs of DIY tuning and where to find some files.
Other places files can be found are at www.moates.net, and www.tunerpro.net.
I know it will seem a bit daunting at first, but once you start, it will get easier, and just a tad addictive, ok, ok VERY additive to keep tuning just a squeak more here, and a pinch more there.
The G1 is not a cable, it is a MEMCAL adapter that allows the hardware side of the MEMCAL to be retained, that has a resistor network for Limp Home Mode, Hardware Cylinder select and the knock filter. The other side has an EPROM socket and that is where the Ostrich (or other emulator) plugs into. The other cable that plugs into the Ostrich 2.0 is a simple USB cable. Uploading the bin happens directly through this cable. You can retreive the bin through this cable as well, but that is usually not needed. Also used for some two way communication in vehicles that use a different type of data tracing than the GM ECMs use, I only mention it for information sake.
The ALDL cable plugs into your ALDL connector under the dash, and is what your laptop uses to datalog through.
Tuner Pro RT will be fully functional when downloaded for free, but there is a 10 second "nag box" at start up for non-registered copies. Mark Mansur works very hard on Tuner Pro and is I feel it is worth the $35 donation to help support the software.
Files are generally pretty easy to find, through sites like this one, the DIY PROM forum has stickies that go through a lot of the ins and outs of DIY tuning and where to find some files.
Other places files can be found are at www.moates.net, and www.tunerpro.net.
I know it will seem a bit daunting at first, but once you start, it will get easier, and just a tad addictive, ok, ok VERY additive to keep tuning just a squeak more here, and a pinch more there.
I think you got me sold. No wiring, no soldering together your own box, keep your factory ecm ran devices. Probably gonna put an order in tonight.
Do I need the "socket booster" when I order the Ostrich 2.0? And what are you doing as far as wideband and being able to log that with the TunerPro? Also, the ALDL cable says it doesn't work by itself. Are you running something else with it, or are they just referring to it won't work by itself without the emulator?
The Socket Booster is only needed for ECMs that use a (24 pin) 2732(a) PROM, such as the 1227747.
I think you're looking at the replacement cable (CABL1), what you need is the ALDL Xtreme, that has the cable, and the inteface box (ALDU1+CABL1 combo).
So as a quick run down:
-G1 adapter
-Ostrich 2.0
-ALDU1+CABL1 combo
-Tuner Pro RT (There used to be a discount for the registration of Tuner Pro when buying an Ostrich, so you might want to check into that.)
Everything else are files that can be downloaded. Well technically Tuner Pro RT can be downloaded right now too, it just has that nag box until you register it.
In my Datsun I'm using an Innovate LC1. I also have a 14point7.com SLC_DIY that I use for tuning other people's cars. I went this route for the temp install unit, because it has native USB connectivity, a built in display and ability to add onboard sensors for other things as well as several analog inputs.
What can be done, especially if using code59 or the modified version of $8D (S_AUJP) is use one of the analog outputs from the WBO2 into the proper input of the ECM and log through the ECM right into the datastream. It can be done with purely stock bins, but takes more effort. Since other people have worked hard on improving the code over stock, with added features, why not use them, right?
I think you're looking at the replacement cable (CABL1), what you need is the ALDL Xtreme, that has the cable, and the inteface box (ALDU1+CABL1 combo).
So as a quick run down:
-G1 adapter
-Ostrich 2.0
-ALDU1+CABL1 combo
-Tuner Pro RT (There used to be a discount for the registration of Tuner Pro when buying an Ostrich, so you might want to check into that.)
Everything else are files that can be downloaded. Well technically Tuner Pro RT can be downloaded right now too, it just has that nag box until you register it.
In my Datsun I'm using an Innovate LC1. I also have a 14point7.com SLC_DIY that I use for tuning other people's cars. I went this route for the temp install unit, because it has native USB connectivity, a built in display and ability to add onboard sensors for other things as well as several analog inputs.
What can be done, especially if using code59 or the modified version of $8D (S_AUJP) is use one of the analog outputs from the WBO2 into the proper input of the ECM and log through the ECM right into the datastream. It can be done with purely stock bins, but takes more effort. Since other people have worked hard on improving the code over stock, with added features, why not use them, right?
I've got the 7-7730 ECM. When I take the Prom out, I'm counting 65 pins. I'm going to order everything tonight. As far as the WB goes, I'll get one ordered and when I get the car back and get all of this installed, I'll hit you up on how to go about putting in the WB. It'd be awesome if you lived close, lol.
That would be the MEMCAL pins you counted.
The EPROM is at one end of the MEMCAL and will have 28 pins. That is the section that is bypassed with the G1, and instead is connected to the ECM by an EPROM socket. You'll see.
It depends on your definition of "close" lol.
I'm in Ontario, Canada, which is close if you compare it to where you live to say, Australia. LOL
There are lots of people that will help that are closer and on here as well.
The EPROM is at one end of the MEMCAL and will have 28 pins.
That is the section that is bypassed with the G1, and instead is connected to the ECM by an EPROM socket. You'll see.It depends on your definition of "close" lol.
I'm in Ontario, Canada, which is close if you compare it to where you live to say, Australia. LOL
There are lots of people that will help that are closer and on here as well.
Ordered it all today. Thanks for all the help man. You saved me from a wiring nightmare I'm sure.