dusterbd

so I had a major failure in the duster. this allows me to finally go EFI as I rebuild it. I know this is thirdgen, but some of the most knowledgeable people on the net hang out here.

the constraints: multiport intake, 1200cfm throttle body with GM IAC and TPS. LS1 injectors.

what im running up against now, is making a decision on engine management. it boils down to drivability for me. I don't want to screw with it. I cant tune worth a damn. its a fairly radical engine (solid roller, 12in manifold vacuum at 900rpm idle, indy heads, 3 inch exhaust, 390 at the rear wheels on pump gas)and I want it as docile and drivable as possible. it has never been this, no matter what carb and manifold I have tried. im sick of trying.

my options, really, are three:
1. ez efi retrofit kit. I can get it for 700 shipped brand new, self learning, no ignition control. spotty info on the retrofit, but mixed reviews on the full tbi style kit. I've installed a couple of the full kits, and they were a bitch to get right but were great once they were.
2. GM L98 (tuned port 350 corvette)computer and harness. cheapest of the options. I already have it all. I cant tune worth a damn, and no one I know of is still messing with them. at that point, I order a mail order tune and take my chances.
3. Megasquirt. can do anything. ever. and im almost completely on my own except for guys on the internet. no one around here will touch it.

so which management system? my gut says spend the money on the ez setup, but my cheapassness balks at that kind of cash.

up next is fuel system: two options.
1. pusher pump/surgetank/e2000 rail pump. already have this in my elky, and works flawless. little noisy. id have to put my surge tank in the trunk in this one, and run all my plumbing through the floor. don't like that. but I also already have all the pieces, so cheapest option.
2. tanks inc pa4. drop in high pressure/return module with sump tray. 225, but done, quiet, and clean.

im leaning towards the PA4, but again, my cheapassness comes into play.
lastly is plumbing. I hate the look of braided stainless/red-blue AN lines. the push lock stuff scares me at 60psi of fuel pressure. on the elky, I used push lock AN fittings with standard high pressure line and fuel injection hose clamps to make my soft lines. ugly as hell, but functional. also not cheap. id like to do something cleaner and neater here, as it will be much more visible in the engine bay and other areas. ideas?

so help me out here, guys. I really need it.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Tough call. I would like to see a mpfi setup like fast xfi and holley hp. Both are good systems. I've seen hp and like it. My friend tuned a few fast xfi and also likes them.

More money but it will get you the driveability you want as more people are capable of tuning those than megasquirt or gm L98 stuff.

You can buy an hose with black fittings. I think you can find black hose too or try bending your own hardlines

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

If you're worried about tunability, talk to Tuned Performance or Rbob here on the site. They're the "premier" programmers and should be able to tell you which system would be better to mange your motor.

For the fuel, I like quiet and reliable. I'd go the PA4.

As for the braided stainless line, my newest summit has some black braided lines that look pretty sweet and should alleviate your concerns about the braided stainless look.

efiguy

iTrader: (2)

If you're looking for drivability as your no 1 desire then a sequential multiport system should be your only way to go. The Accel will drive better than anything in this price class.

I like the Holley as well but it still won't drive as well as the Accel and it's still a pulse width based system.

FAST XFI has a newly revised system. Seems they finally admit theirs wasn't the best driving system. But imo it's still overrated. Read the highlighted box.
http://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/xfi-...a-logginghtml/ And it still doesn't have adjustable injector timing via load and/or rpm.

Then you have the Newer AEM Infinity. Wicked fast processor, lots of features and tunability, great tech help, and a very competitive price point.
http://www.aemelectronics.com/produc.../infinity-6-8h

Where in NC is Locust? Let me know if I can help.

dadams7161

this guy does TPI Tuned Port Injection Memcal Chip Custom reprogram I am told he is good I know he is on eBay but if you need a chip done I would go with him here is a link http://www.ebay.com/itm/TPI-Tuned-Port-Injection-Memcal-Chip-Custom-reprogrammed-for-Your-Vehicle-/111612096638?vxp=mtr a friend of mine bought from him and said it worked perfect you have a list of 16 questions he needs answered

nossbc

iTrader: (1)

if you drive it on the street I would use the holley efi...I also like the bs3..but its not as user friendly as the holley.
you could use the ebl p4 flash with your tpi harness...but I personally think you are better off with the other 2 beacause they are a lil easier to tune than the ebl in the sense that they control less stuff.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

http://www.ms3pro.com

For the money nothing comes close. Full sequential, auto tune, commercial support, and internet forums.

-- Joe

efiguy

iTrader: (2)

Hmmm, yeah there are. The New AEM Infinity for one. Fastest processor in the industry right now, dbw, extensive datalogging capability and a true VE based system.
And as far as the BS3 goes, its forte is drag racing, not street driving. That system doesn't drive exceptionally well on the more modified combinations, certainly not like some others.


Thanks.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

You can get an MS3 is $700.. AEM starts at $2600. MS3PRO is $1200. So if you are trying to say "Other stuff exist that is better for 2 or 3 times the money", than you are correct. Although the AEM is only slightly faster in regards to the CPU, and feature for feature it almost directly mirrors the MS3.

I know of at least one thing that is better on the AEM, but you won't cite that. Instead you will turn to regurgitating marking BS because that is what you sales guys do.

Please describe what makes it a true VE based system and others not. Please, describe in depth the fueling algorithms.

That's kind of funny. You always dig yourself into a hole. That is the problem with you sales guys. But again, please describe in technical detail why you believe your above statements to be true.



-- Joe

efiguy

iTrader: (2)

Simple, the BS3 has limited transient table as well as the archaic 16x16 tables.
10 year old processor.
AEM starts at $1400.00, not $2600. And by the time you buy a ready built ms they're more than $700.00, lets be honest here.
A true VE will compensate for changes in fuel injector size, pressure and other variables automatically.
And the ms has a processor that's CLOSE to 400mips, really? Didn't know that......
Is the ms capable of controlling the injector pulse time to 7 decimal points? Really? Didn't know that either.....
It's faster than anything out there right now, period.
Thank you.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Actually, you can run up to a 62x64 fuel or ignition table in Megasquirt. It's minor changes to the array size and ini file. The reason most people stick with a 16x16 table is because the resolution of the MAP sensor itself is not finite enough. Go to a 3 bar map sensor and it's even worse.

Again, engineer vs sales guy.

Vs the 5 year old AEM processor? (yes, I still have the tech notes from when it was at the 2010 SEMA show). The MC9S12 in the MS3 is 50mhz and 80mips. So yes, AEM's processor is 4 times as fast. That must be what justifies the extra cost, right?

No. Mine was $350 built. A fully assembled and warrantied MS3 is $659.

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/m...led-p-435.html

I'm running a lower-end MS2 as I did not need some of the functionality as MS3, so mine is cheaper.

Yes, that's called an algorithm. On a modern system you would take in multiple inputs such as MAP, BARO, MAF, air temperature, coolant temperature, fuel pressure, wideband o2, throttle position, etc. You then have static constants such as engine size, injector size, peak tq RPM, etc.


While I admit 400mips is surely faster than the freescale processor in an MS3, I don't think you fully understand how slow either is for other applications. For example, we develop security appliances that decode network traffic at wire speed and must make logical decisions without impacting network performance on 10gigabit links. Our base line (smallest unit we make) has 4 cores, each 6185 mips per core.

My point is that, the processing power need to evaluate sensor inputs and derive a pulse width value is absolutely nothing.

The pulsewidth resolution of a MS3 is 1 microsecond, so that is .001.

If you can explain why you need resolution to 0.0000001 than buy an AEM. Frankly, I think you're just spouting marketing BS.



-- Joe

efiguy

iTrader: (2)

I've asked the same question regarding the 7 decimal points, I'll let them tell you. I think it's best you speak with the AEM guys yourself. I'm not going back and forth here.
To some degree this is all personnel preference as well as aptitude anyway. I've sold three Accel systems to former MS guys over the last few years, they weren't as impressed with that system as you are apparently. It is what it is.