Good morning (for me anyway... I'm currently on over nights so bear with me on this one).

I'd first like to start out listing all the mods presently on the car so that we can start from there and work towards what I have going on. So the short list:

• Heads (195cc, 64cc chamber)
• Roller Cam (226/230)
• Fuller roller setup up top with 1.52 rockers
• stock bottom end 350
• CFI induction (don't laugh but a stock intake)
• Headers with dual x pipe 3in to 2.50in exhaust near the axle
• EBL flash with HAM board (the rs232 one so I am unsure if it is a II or not...)
• All the smog is pulled
• VRFPR set to either 22 or 24 psi... I have to check again to be sure
• Parallel plumbed

I am sure I am missing a lot more than what is listed but for now that gives an overview of what is going on under the hood. Compression I calculated to be around 10:1... I couldn't get a burette on the pistons but I used clay and some measuring tools and fudged numbers but... that is about what I get. Anyway, the car runs great... honestly better than it ever did stock and it pulls fairly well in any gear at any rpm. It is quite fun... As dad likes to put it "you don't need to push the pedal much to be going pretty fast."

So I finished March of 2020 and have been working the bugs out of the tune since. Since day 1 it was drivable but it just keeps getting better and better with every tweak. August of last year I pretty much had it to where I couldn't find anything to make it feel better anymore playing around with the tune so I left it. In November I replumbed the fuel system with hard line and things got weird... I had some lean spikes that wouldn't respond to fueling changes at all... Long and short after a while Tom (buccaneer) suggested switching back to rubber lines and it fixed it. Mostly.

Now the issue I am having is this: any time I wanted to make a tuning adjustment I would force open loop and tweak it until it was good. There was never a noticeable difference open vs closed loop. It always ran great in either. Now I am noticing that open loop is not quite as good as closed loop... generally AE off the line causes a rich bog in open that is not very noticeable in closed. So I did some minor tweaking in the tune and basically did this:

PE AFR enrich from 1.5 to 1.2 dAFR
The attack enrich from 6.27 to 5.88
And I pulled a small amount of PW out of the TPS and MAP AE tables

For the most part, that seems to have fixed it. But I will be the first to say that I don't have a clue how the AE tables work much at all. I get its a delta change from one to the other to get your lookup but anytime I tried to figure out where it was hitting on in the table I just couldn't really see where it was pulling... So I took a guess and it seems to have worked but down the line I am going to need to tweak it more I am sure and would like to be able to understand more clearly why I have to do what I do vs just guess and check if that makes sense. Mind you this only became an issue after the replumb and my guess is it is simply because the fuel system isn't restricted nearly as much as it was.

Any input is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

-Paul

 

In a dump of the log file the last five columns prior to any ADC data is AE information. Shows the dTPS and dMAP along with the PWs used. Note that the data won't line up exactly with what the ECM has in it tables. The reason is that AE takes place at 80 times a second while the logging is a bit slower.

But the info still helps out.

RBob.

 

Never thought to check the dump file. But that actually makes sense. Thank you sir and sorry for all the emails I sent you over the last couple years. Hated that I kept bothering you. And on the data stream, it just kind of interpolates between cells based on what it sees for the delta values correct? So the values just normally fall in-between what is inputted which is what I was figuring. Thank you.

-Paul

 

That is kind of what I was figuring but never thought to look there. Thank you. Obviously the ECM interpolates between the table values so it just needs to be close, correct? Also, sorry again for the barrage of emails over the past few years. Hated to keep bothering you. The fan works great and the car never ran better now that it has the IAT sensor. Very consistent day to day where you used to feel a large difference on a 75 degree day vs a 95 one. Thank you for everything again.

 

One more question, I've noticed AE and PE overlap whenever I get on it hard nd that causes a noticeable bog (AFR in the 9-10s) when I stab it even from a roll. I've gotten it to where the part throttle AE is pretty good, basically when accelerating moderate changes (not enough to trigger PE) drop it 1 AFR to make it happy and then it comes back up... sort of like a power valve for transient throttle correct? My question now is this for the following parameters:

• PE - AFR Attack Enrich Over Time: This only effects how quick PE comes in correct, not how much fuel is added, so smaller number is quicker, larger slower but once reached the same fuel?
• PE - AFR Enrich Over Time: this is a delta value, does this reference the normal commanded AFR or the PE AFR... For example 1.2 and commanded 14.7 normal equals 13.5 max low or is it 12.8 and 11.6 in the PE AFR. Or am I just completely wrong on this

Just trying to hone it in. For example, I backed down the attack and it made the bog slightly less noticeable (is there a way to prevent the AE and PE overlap?) and left AFR enrich alone. WOT AFR 13.2-13.6. Added fuel to the top of the VE table to bring it roughly .3+/- of the commanded 12.6 AFR. Through first and second I now see 12.3-12.9. If I were to only adjust the commanded AFR in theory I should see 12.7-13.3 if I change it to 13.0 correct? I get it's all trial and error for a lot of it but this is all that is tripping me up. I added in a little spark with the PE adder too and that helped a lot as well with bogs and overall feel at and near redline. Just trying to get that las little bit is where I'm at before getting on the dyno.

 

It may be helpful to lean that out some. That can cause the INT to drop causing others issues. When using AE to get into PE, the INT dropping gets instantly reset back to 128. Which may be contributing to being too rich.

The enrich over time is further fuel from just the PE AFR table. The purpose is to add fuel to prevent engine meltdown when in PE mode for a period of time. You can see this in the commanded AFR value in the WUD.

AFR Attack Enrich Over Time: a smaller value is a slower attack.
AFR Enrich Over Time: this is the most the PE AFR can be reduced.

If the AFR vs RPM table is at 12.8, and the enrich over time is 1, the lowest commanded AFR will be 11.8.

RBob.

 

Okay, that explains why on longer pulls I have seen commanded go down to 12.3 from where it is set. Makes sense. So it would seem for the most part PE is pretty well working then and my issues lie in the transient and AE areas still. More logging needed.

 

Update: I rechecked the data logs and bin files... I think I see what is going on and I understand what needs to be fixed (that is what happens when you go in with a clear mind) It sort of just clicked looking at the logs so I will report back my findings... Basically, AE is too rich and I'm looking at the time point of when it goes rich not the frames before it of when its first adding fuel. Basically what I am seeing in the log is the time delay between the initial huge dump and when the O2 is seeing what that is doing. And I am only adjusting the pulses after that initial dump which is why I am going in circles... Basically need to work further down in the table. Don't mind me being dumb misreading the data that was always right in front of me...

 

Update: Made it worse. Back to the drawing board lol. I did start moving in the right direction however. Think it is becoming a spring time project.

 

Where are you in New Jersey? Are you running an EBL Flash...?

- Rob

 

Paul is within a few miles from Ray's shop if I remember correctly Rob. Yes, he is running EBL Flash II. He also has 2" TBs that he got from me, just not sure if they are on or not.

 

EBL but the first gen that uses an RS232. I'm in Jackson but I'm closer to the Howell side.

I actually just got it pretty good... Tom sent over the stock type calibration a few weeks ago and I tried playing with it but, It was worse wide open and nailing it but better part throttle. I tried modifying it based on what I thought it needed and made it worse. What I did today was offset the PW tables by 62% or there about to account for the difference in fuel pressure stock vs what I am running. Now I nail it and AFR snaps to what it is commanded and doesn't do anything weird. part throttle is still meh compared to the higher offset tables but it is the best it's been yet.
Those 2 inch units are going on the ported unit when it finally goes on. Again I can't thank you enough for them. Also if you're still looking, I may have a line on a pair of stockers if you're interested.

 

If you need any help with anything just say the word, I'm near Marlboro off of Route 9...

- Rob

 

I may take you up on that in the spring depending on how off it is with the ported intake. Marlboro proper or that weird little section that's on the west side of 9 that I always assume is northern Manalapan?

 

Just thought I'd update. It made 3 clean repetitive pulls on the dyno. Mind you this is through the stock, un-modified, intake manifold. Pretty solid all things considered. And it made more power with each run which surprised me. (numbers are corrected to dynojet numbers, the mustang numbers were 261/310, which is still solid. Can't wait for the ported intake.)

 

As much as I hate reviving an old thread... it would seem I may be doing that (It is mine at least). So long and short, I drove the car for the first time this year on monday and noticed a few things... Now prior to putting it up it was mostly trouble free but I started noticing the following:

• Surging while maintaining speed. I'm going to assume this is just work needed on the fueling tables... I didn't log anything since it was just a quick drive waiting for my windshield to get done.
• I get break up under mild throttle at higher RPMs, Almost like it needs more fuel? This has been ongoing. AFR is always a little rich in these areas compared to commanded, usually 13.8-14:1 vs the commanded 14.7. I wonder if playing with the commanded fueling in these areas would amend the issue.
• Getting a little bit of a lean pop on gear shifts. I normally cut throttle when banging gears as I don't want to totally obliterate my doug-nash... I am assuming because its going to high vacuum the fuel in the plenum is getting sucked out then tipping back in it gets a lean spike... Maybe AE or PE needs more work.

Just looking for some input... I'll probably play around with it over the weekend some since the boat is out of commission for the remainder of the summer... get some data logs going and all.