Good starting point? (ANLU/$61)
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Rockport, TX
Car: 1980 Jeep CJ7
Engine: AMC 360 with GM TBI
Transmission: TF727 set for kill...let's get it on!!!
Good starting point? (ANLU/$61)
Well, it's about time to start tuning the Jeep engine. I was planning to wait for the AutoPROM, but I figure I can get a good jump on things with the OEM PROM and BIN. I have already done a little tweaking of the base BIN (BPW to 120, disabled EGR, set Target Idle, etc).
I have Desktop Dyno 2000 and I have run the simulator with my engine combo many times. I understand what the graphs are showing, but I am kinda stumped as to how to take a 2D VE curve and apply it to a 3D VE% table in the BIN.
Where is a good starting point for the initial tuning? Should I just start out at low RPMs and work up from there? If so, how do I go about keeping the PE mode from screwing with the BLMs? I have seen posts about this subject, but they are all kinda ECM-specific and probably don't apply to the 8746 and archive searches turn up pretty much squat AFAICT.
TIA
EDIT: I forgot...peak VE% is 89.1 @ 5000 rpm. Max torque (and I would believe this) is 390 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm and peak HP is 373 HP @ 5500 rpm (I might believe a little lower, but it's close anyway)...man, I LOVE being able to smoke a Rustang...and run over it after all is said and done...
I have Desktop Dyno 2000 and I have run the simulator with my engine combo many times. I understand what the graphs are showing, but I am kinda stumped as to how to take a 2D VE curve and apply it to a 3D VE% table in the BIN.
Where is a good starting point for the initial tuning? Should I just start out at low RPMs and work up from there? If so, how do I go about keeping the PE mode from screwing with the BLMs? I have seen posts about this subject, but they are all kinda ECM-specific and probably don't apply to the 8746 and archive searches turn up pretty much squat AFAICT.
TIA
EDIT: I forgot...peak VE% is 89.1 @ 5000 rpm. Max torque (and I would believe this) is 390 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm and peak HP is 373 HP @ 5500 rpm (I might believe a little lower, but it's close anyway)...man, I LOVE being able to smoke a Rustang...and run over it after all is said and done...
Last edited by jeepguy553; Dec 15, 2003 at 09:07 PM.
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Re: Good starting point? (ANLU/$61)
Originally posted by jeepguy553
EDIT: I forgot...peak VE% is 89.1 @ 5000 rpm. Max torque (and I would believe this) is 390 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm and peak HP is 373 HP @ 5500 rpm
EDIT: I forgot...peak VE% is 89.1 @ 5000 rpm. Max torque (and I would believe this) is 390 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm and peak HP is 373 HP @ 5500 rpm
Which is something you'll not easily be able to account for.
Try and get a WB to use, even if you have to buy one. By the time your done, it'll have paid for itself in just gas saved, well sort of
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Rockport, TX
Car: 1980 Jeep CJ7
Engine: AMC 360 with GM TBI
Transmission: TF727 set for kill...let's get it on!!!
The WB is in future plans, but I would like to get the thing running for the time being. After being here a while and reading all the various posts regarding the use of the WB vs the NB, I can definitely see that there is a significant advantage to using the WB. Gas saved is a relative term with a Jeep. Imagine driving a brick wall down the road at 70mph +...now strap a parachute to the top of it. In a strong wind (like today...25mph NNW winds gusting to over 30mph) the soft top acts like a parachute and will tend to create a LOT of drag on the vehicle. The engine I have can definitely compensate, but it does so at the expense of fuel economy. If I get the Jeep into the 20mpg range with this TBI system, I will be very happy...it's a far cry from the 12mpg HWY it was getting before with a carb (Holley 4160, 650cfm 4V).
I'll have to dig into the deeper parts of DD2000 to see if the HP/TQ values are corrected for temperature. There is not a place to tell the simulator if you are using TBI, EFI, or a carb. You can only tell it how much flow your carb/TB provides to the engine. I wouldn't have any idea how to correct those numbers for temp in the ECM tuning...at least not yet.
I'll have to dig into the deeper parts of DD2000 to see if the HP/TQ values are corrected for temperature. There is not a place to tell the simulator if you are using TBI, EFI, or a carb. You can only tell it how much flow your carb/TB provides to the engine. I wouldn't have any idea how to correct those numbers for temp in the ECM tuning...at least not yet.
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From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Originally posted by jeepguy553
Gas saved is a relative term with a Jeep. Imagine driving a brick wall down the road at 70mph +...now strap a parachute to the top of it. In a strong wind (like today...25mph NNW winds gusting to over 30mph) the soft top acts like a parachute and will tend to create a LOT of drag on the vehicle.
Gas saved is a relative term with a Jeep. Imagine driving a brick wall down the road at 70mph +...now strap a parachute to the top of it. In a strong wind (like today...25mph NNW winds gusting to over 30mph) the soft top acts like a parachute and will tend to create a LOT of drag on the vehicle.
Try a 3/4t, BBC, P-U towing a trailer with a 3,500 payload, a 425 caddy engine, an SHO, and an AL SBF.
I did about 300 miles in PE, yesterday, since there was a 40 MPH headwind. A little less then 9 MPG, but at 70 MPH with a heavy load, I just expect that. This next chip will have a higher TPS PE enable, and leaner PE. Without a WB would have just considered it normal. Earlier part of the trip was almost 13 MPG, with the same total payload.
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From: Al Udeid, Qatar-Worldwide service
Car: IH Scout
Engine: 345 V8 TBI
Transmission: 727
Just some quick figuring and I came up with 129.6 for the BPW
Based on 5.9L and 68lb/hr injectors.
I'm still learning but It just looked like 120 was a little fat for a 360?
I'm sure someone has this on an excel sheet instead of a calculator.
Are you running the IAT on your conversion?
Based on 5.9L and 68lb/hr injectors.
I'm still learning but It just looked like 120 was a little fat for a 360?
I'm sure someone has this on an excel sheet instead of a calculator.
Are you running the IAT on your conversion?
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 647
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From: Rockport, TX
Car: 1980 Jeep CJ7
Engine: AMC 360 with GM TBI
Transmission: TF727 set for kill...let's get it on!!!
Yep, I have the IAT installed. I had to drill the air cleaner base and install a rubber PCV grommet to get it to stay in. I left pretty much everything intact with the exception of the trans control harness. That was seriously in the way so I clipped it out (left enough wire to tie it back in if need be), taped the ends off, and stuffed them in the gooseneck to get them out of the way. I did the same thing with the AIR solenoids and the EGR wires.
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