I have an '87 GTA 350 TPI MAF car. List of mods include:
Forged pistons, flattops
T/F 23 degree heads
Comp Cam, 220/230....510" I/E lift hydraulic roller
Crane Gold race roller rockers 1.5's
Ported Plenum
9.5:1
160 stat///180 operating temp
Catco high flow cat
Airfoil
K/N
No airbox
SLP runners
Wells MAF unit w/ no screen on the outlet
45 psi of fuel
30 lb Ford injectors
Shorty headers w/ 3" Dynomax cat back
Crane HI-6S ignition w/ HEI module
2500 rpm stall, lockup
3.73 posi

First off, I am using WinBin, Winaldl and the PP2 and the 165 $32b bin.

I have always worked on carbed muscle cars so this is the unknown for me. I assembled this car a few years ago and had EdWright burn me a custom chip that fit my needs.
I have started buring my own chips a few weeks ago. The car baselined at 14.7 sec. before these upgrades. The mods were done a couple years ago and I figured there was more hp left in the chip. I have reburned this 29c256 chip about 70 times already and have done a lot of tuning using the MAF and spark advance tables. The car runs around 120-132 BLM's between cruise mode and idle. The plugs look a little light colored to me, off white electrode and at WOT, the O2mv are around 880. There is very little knock, about 10 cells total have 1. Last week at the track with a R/T of .70, the car ran 14.4 at 96mph. This was with very, VERY little tire spin off the line and shifting at 5200 rpm to keep the engine in its powerband. In 3rd through the lights I was at about 4800 rpm. I have added and removed timing from the spark advance tables. Initial timing is 6D.
Based on what everyone else is running, this seems a bit too slow for my setup. I recently decreased the PE vs. rpm in the 2800 cell from 6.25 to 2.34 and now there is a huge difference in low end power. Car will spin em at will in 1'st. Not good for racing , but it was a test to see what that change would do. Second and third at WOT seem a little flat.

Are there any changes that should be made to any of the AE or PE tables to improve midrange and upper rpm HP???? I'm new at this so I have just been changing a few values here and there using small changes and then logging data. I have countless doc's on AE,timing,MAF,etc., but I have not seen too much on PE vs. RPM values. It's just really depressing when an NOS injected **** burner runs a 12.9 right next to you. I was thinking with my setup there should be quite a bit more hp in there somewhere. The only thing bothering me is the flow of the Wells Su-145 MAF sensor being too low. I modified a Performer RPM manifold and stuck a 750 Edelbrock carb on and the car ran great to about 6200 rpm or so. It lost some power down low though. It was quicker, but not more than a half second in the quarter I would say based on past experiences. So I was looking at supercharging next year sometime after a rebuild and lots of port work. Just looking for some solutions in the interim.
Any other info available upon request. I have lots of LOG data in excel forms.
Thanks in advance.

 

So, it runs decent, but a little lame in PE?

I'd suggest you consider buying a wideband O2. That, and some means of datalogging it, will tell you where you're really at as far as PE AFRs. It'll save you enough time, that you won't regret it. Don't waste your time or your engine trying to tune to a some voltage value from a stock lambda O2 sensor.

Ignore ET, and pay attention to MPH.

Also, with that cam, and heads, the powerband should go a lot higher than 5200 IMHO. With the right AFR, that is.

Also, isn't WinALDL still just 160 baud when used with $32B? If so, you should really consider moving up to an 8192 baud datalogger of some sort. (Tunerpro, Datamaster, etc.) It makes a big difference.

 

I've downloaded the TunerproRT for the 8192 baud but have not been able to get it to work yet. I have only tried for about 15min. I'll put in some more time with it today.

As far as the PE vs. Rpm table goes, using WinBin, does raising the value increase or decrease fuel??

It just seems about 50horse short or so once you get out of 1st. What applications were the wideband O2 sensors used? Truck or car, doesn't matter as long as it fits in the OEM hole. I have a friend who manages a junk yard and can get what I want cheap.

thanks,
Chris

 

If using TunerPro RT to datalog (you can use it to edit your bin using the same ECU file you use with Winbin, btw), you need to use the correct ads file for your $32B mask. I'm not sure what ads file (or datastream template) that would be. Maybe someone else has one?

Alternately, you could update to $6E.

 

The wide band O2 is not just a sensor. It did come OEM in a few aplications, but you will need special hardware and software to operate it. Look down a few posts on group buy WB02, and again in my post about Zeitronix, and again in a post about a DIY-WB. There are many companies that make them, I bought the Zeitronix unit and I am pleased so far, but I have nothing to compare it to directly. Most WBO2's run $200-$500 depending on functions and options. Mine is from Zeitronix.com . Good luck with the tune.

 

I am kinda curious what you have changed in the chip? how well does it run with the stock chip and the 30# injectors selected?

 

I have not put the stock chip in because of numerous reasons, cam selection, injectors, converter,etc.

I had another post going that stated all this started when I started getting MAF low errors and had the replace the modified OEM sensor with the Wells unit. After that you couldn't open the throttle more than half way without it crapping all over itself and blowing black smoke out the back. That's when I started retuning the chip and have made tons of progress by reducing the injector constant from the 29 it was at to 38. Since then I have been playing with many tables to try to see if there is hidden hp in there somewhere. I have been through the MAF tables 1 and 2 to resolve rich/lean cruise conditions, PE vs. temp and rpm tables, accel enrich vs. lv8 tables, spark table, etc..

It doesn't appear there is much left based on all the changes I have made so far with no significant differences.

--Chris

 

ok, just asking. I am not really that good with burning chips yet. I used to be maf and so are a few of my friends. my car always ran pretty good with everything pretty close to stock settings (of course I had to make some changes) and I also use a very mild cam

 

What are you using for induction??? If you are running a stock TPI setup, you might be maxed out on airflow. 5200 sounds about the limit for a stock unit, even with your cam... Your cam should pull to the 6000-6200 you metioned earlier. I would think you would want to go with a higher rpm setup than stock or even a big port base and runners. I'm not sure where my Edelbrock big port base and big tube runner die off as my cam only pulls hard to 5500, then flat to 5700 before dying on the vine. I'm not really happy with my times either. Best was 14.37 @ 98.41 mph on Dunlop SP Sport 8000 P245/50-16's.....

I think I had my timing too high (16*) for the gearing I have. Also, the engine laid over at half track. I have just upgraded to 30# injectors and I have a Prominator I hope to install in the next week after I finish up some other repairs. I'm hoping that I will be able to wake the engine up a little and at least get low 13's out of this beast. Of course the car weighs 3600# and I'm 260#, so that's a lot of weight to drag down a track.......

There's been a couple of upgrades and one downgrade since that run. I now have an aluminum driveshaft and a 9.5" 2800 rpm lockup stall converter. (Would love to borrow some slicks for just one night!!!!) The downgrade was 700gm pistons....

 

I running no airbox, just 3" nice ductwork to a K/N conical filter. Stock throttle body w/ airfoil, ported plenum, SLP runners and a slightly modified base. I opened up the openings where the runners bolt on to help gasket(port match) the openings.

The other hinderance in my opinion is the T/F 23 degree heads. They have a decent intake volume but the exhaust side does not appear to flow really well. I think i'm pretty much done messing around with the chip and will probably drive it as is the rest of the year and then ****** the motor out of it and start doing some more work on it. Something really seems amiss????

My run was also with a passenger and since then I have done some chip tuning that with good traction from the light, I think will take probably a couple tenths off. She probably would run 14.0 w/o the passenger,(130lbs.) and with the new chip change increasing the launch capacity. I don't think the guys running 12's and faster are telling all..LOL. Maybe I need to get back into building big cu.in. cars with carbs on them.

Chris

 

You're somewhat like I am in that you are spending a lot of time in third gear, and not in the power band. As I looked back at my best times, they were with the timing set at 10*. That would be because I get a lot more low end power at that setpoint.

Another reason would be my selection of chips. The stock 85 computer with a stock 'Vette chip had way more low end power than the 89 computer with the TPIS chip in it. However, it started tapering off at 3500 with it surging all the way to 4800 whereupon it had little pull, and after 5200, no pull at all. The TPIS chip had way less low end power, but at 3500 was like kicking in the secondaries of a Q-Jet.

After pocket porting the heads, adding headers and a 52MM TB, the 85 'Vette chip picked up 1000 rpm in power band on the top end and lost a little low end. It still surges and doesn't make as much power on top end as the TPIS chip. The 89 TPIS chip started pulling harder at 2500 than before, albeit not as hard as the 85 chip. It also picked up more power on top end than before. So I believe there is more to gain on my setup with the Prominator than with either chip I have. The TPIS chip bin file was downloaded into the Prominator (Thanks Bill) as a programming starting point and I'll start at 10* initial timing and go from there to see what my track times do....

One last thing to consider. Where is your track? Mine is at Famoso. It's supposed to be a half second faster than LA County Raceway, but a half second slower than Pomona. (According to guys who have raced at all three).

Here's a location with some factors for converting your MPH/ET's to sea level: Conversion Factors

 

I race at Norwalk Raceway. Not much elevation here.