DIY PROM Do It Yourself PROM chip burning help. No PROM begging. No PROMs for sale. No commercial exchange. Not a referral service.

Unstable RPM signal a problem?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Sep 2, 2004 | 10:41 PM
  #1  
JPrevost's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 2
Car: 91 Red Sled
Axle/Gears: 10bolt Richmond 3.73 Torsen
Unstable RPM signal a problem?

So for a while now I've noticed that the RPM signal to the ecm is a little unstable. It'll go up and down like a saw from the oil pump and cam twist, and etc. So my question; can this effect the accuracy of the SA delivered to each cylinder? Can one cylinder be getting 20 and another 24? Maybe this is a reason why GM went to the cam chain optispark since it was a direct drive from crank being more accurate.
Reply
Old Sep 3, 2004 | 06:15 AM
  #2  
Grumpy's Avatar
Supreme Member
 
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 1
From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Re: Unstable RPM signal a problem?

Originally posted by JPrevost
So for a while now I've noticed that the RPM signal to the ecm is a little unstable. It'll go up and down like a saw from the oil pump and cam twist, and etc. So my question; can this effect the accuracy of the SA delivered to each cylinder? Can one cylinder be getting 20 and another 24? Maybe this is a reason why GM went to the cam chain optispark since it was a direct drive from crank being more accurate.
It'd be more of a timing chain issue IMO.
If the oil pump gears were doing it, I'd have imagined they'd have gone gerotor ages ago. Cam twist is from REALLY stiff springs from what I've heard.

I believe the optispark was more about lowering the overall profile of the engine, for being able to slide it back under the windshield, imagine a VI gen with a dissy and trying to change the cap and rotor?, brrrrrr, that lead anyone to swear....
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2004 | 01:01 AM
  #3  
JPrevost's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 2
Car: 91 Red Sled
Axle/Gears: 10bolt Richmond 3.73 Torsen
Re: Re: Unstable RPM signal a problem?

Originally posted by Grumpy
It'd be more of a timing chain issue IMO.
If the oil pump gears were doing it, I'd have imagined they'd have gone gerotor ages ago. Cam twist is from REALLY stiff springs from what I've heard.

I believe the optispark was more about lowering the overall profile of the engine, for being able to slide it back under the windshield, imagine a VI gen with a dissy and trying to change the cap and rotor?, brrrrrr, that lead anyone to swear....
Makes sence. Although cutting a little hole in your dash with an access cover to the firewall to adjust your base timing while driving.... now that would be funny!
I just figured it might be an issue.
Reply
Old Sep 4, 2004 | 07:34 AM
  #4  
JP84Z430HP's Avatar
Supreme Member
25 Year Member
 
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,416
Likes: 0
From: Johnstown, Ohio
Car: 84 Z28
Engine: 355 (fastburn heads, LT4 HOT cam)
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt, 3.27
Re: Re: Unstable RPM signal a problem?

Originally posted by Grumpy
It'd be more of a timing chain issue IMO.
If the oil pump gears were doing it, I'd have imagined they'd have gone gerotor ages ago. Cam twist is from REALLY stiff springs from what I've heard.

I believe the optispark was more about lowering the overall profile of the engine, for being able to slide it back under the windshield, imagine a VI gen with a dissy and trying to change the cap and rotor?, brrrrrr, that lead anyone to swear....
So they put it behind the water pump! Great choice! IMO they just have just gone DIS and been done with it. They had the ststem ready to go (LT5)! They could've put the reluctor int the timing cover as they do on the Vortec truck. Besides, that would've made the DIS swap for us much easier!
Reply
Old Sep 7, 2004 | 05:50 PM
  #5  
RBob's Avatar
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 18,432
Likes: 234
From: Chasing Electrons
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check
Re: Unstable RPM signal a problem?

Originally posted by JPrevost
So for a while now I've noticed that the RPM signal to the ecm is a little unstable. It'll go up and down like a saw from the oil pump and cam twist, and etc. So my question; can this effect the accuracy of the SA delivered to each cylinder? Can one cylinder be getting 20 and another 24? Maybe this is a reason why GM went to the cam chain optispark since it was a direct drive from crank being more accurate.
Good question, AFAIK, yes, the changes you see in RPM will also be affecting the SA timing. The RPM is calculated from the number of 15.26 usec counts between each DRP.

The ECM will fire the coil at each DRP. The changing RPM is an indication of spark scatter.

To calculate the amount of scatter in degrees BTDC, take the difference in DRP counts from one DRP to the next and multiply by 15.26. That will give the varience in micro-seconds.

Then take the RPM and convert that to the number of micro-seconds between spark plugs firings.

Divide that by 90 and multiply by the varience and out pops degrees (I hope). I may have gotten that partially incorrect but you get the idea.

I posted a thread this past winter where I motored a distributor while connected to an ECM and scoped the EST line. I found the ECM would contribute +- one clock count of error (15.26 usec). This is to be expected and I was happy to see that.

RBob.
Reply
Old Sep 7, 2004 | 06:51 PM
  #6  
91RedFirebird's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
From: TX
Car: 91 firebird
Engine: 350
Transmission: t-56
YES the distirbutor will cause spark scatter and up and down readings pull it out and shim the bottem gear on the shaft so there is no up and down play. also old worn distributors can have play with worn shafts and or housings.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Fronzizzle
Electronics
3
Aug 17, 2015 02:52 PM
Tony Ferrarri
Electronics
1
Aug 11, 2015 07:59 PM
hokis
Transmissions and Drivetrain
9
Aug 9, 2015 03:57 PM
Fronzizzle
Electronics
2
Aug 9, 2015 01:15 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:02 PM.