Bin offsets for different size chips?
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From: Buckhannon, WV
Car: 84' Monte
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Bin offsets for different size chips?
Ok I have had a heck of a time finding out what offsets to use with different sized chips with different sized bins. A search didn't turn up much, the bit of info I found didn't work. So lets compile a list of what offsets for each type of bin, and chip. Or better yet can some one explain completely what offset means in terms of the hex offset, so I can figure it out for myself. Also what is the difference between the buffer offset and the start address for my pocket programer?
I'll start by listing what I know works with my TBI setup
chip______Bin________Buffer offset _________start address
SF512.........4K....................4000..............................0f000
2732...........4k....................4000..............................00000
what i'm having trouble with is burning a 64k bin on the same sf512 chips. The bin is for a 7060 by the way.
I'll start by listing what I know works with my TBI setup
chip______Bin________Buffer offset _________start address
SF512.........4K....................4000..............................0f000
2732...........4k....................4000..............................00000
what i'm having trouble with is burning a 64k bin on the same sf512 chips. The bin is for a 7060 by the way.
Last edited by BMmonteSS; Nov 20, 2004 at 07:31 AM.
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64k on a 27SF512 requires no offset, as it's a 64k chip.
Basically, you just take the size of the chip, and subtract the size of the .bin, and that's where you want the .bin to start. That way it's in the bottom-most slot, which is where the ECM wants it.
Basically, you just take the size of the chip, and subtract the size of the .bin, and that's where you want the .bin to start. That way it's in the bottom-most slot, which is where the ECM wants it.
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From: Buckhannon, WV
Car: 84' Monte
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700-r4
Axle/Gears: ferd 9" posi 3.50 gears
Ok Mr. Moates just straitened me out over on his message board. I was under the impression that the SF512 chip was a 512 Kila BITE When in fact the chip is a 512 kila BIT . There are 8 BITS in a BITE so thats where I was confused. So I don't need any offset to burn the 64KB bin on the 64KB chip.
I still don't quite get what the buffer offset does with the pocket programer. I know I have use a 4000 offset to burn my 4K tbi chips. I don't have to move the start address becaue it's a 4KB chip, but I do have to use the buffer offset.
I still don't quite get what the buffer offset does with the pocket programer. I know I have use a 4000 offset to burn my 4K tbi chips. I don't have to move the start address becaue it's a 4KB chip, but I do have to use the buffer offset.
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Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Buckhannon, WV
Car: 84' Monte
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Axle/Gears: ferd 9" posi 3.50 gears
Ohh crap, I think I just realized something. I figured out how to use the start address for the device setting, but the BUFFER offset is worrying me. If I'm thinking correctly this start address controls where you start reading from the loaded buffer. So if I use the 4000 start adress that I was using then I'm only burning the last half of the bin to the chip, and leaving the first half all ff's. This doesn't make sense, I need find out whats going on. I've been burning chips for over a year now, I shouldn't be confused by this.
Ohh yeah, it's a 32K bin that I'm trying to burn, don't know where I got the 64K from.
Ohh yeah, it's a 32K bin that I'm trying to burn, don't know where I got the 64K from.
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moates.net
Using Offsets on Chips
How to use offsets when programming chips:
If the chip you are programming is of a larger capacity than the binary file you are putting on it, you typically need to use an offset with
respect to chip addressing. This option is shown in the TunerPro RT program under 'Moates Prom I/O'. To program a chip, proceed as follows:
1) Ensure that all programs on the PC are closed, and then connect the AutoProm or Flash & Burn unit. If using a serial version of the AutoProm,
connect its power supply. Make sure, if using an AutoProm, that it is disconnected from the car's ECM.
2) Once the unit is connected, start up the TunerPro RT program. You should see at the bottom of the window a message like "Connected: AutoProm 2.5.A" or something similar. If this is not shown, and you instead see "Hardware Not Found", then one of the following needs to be checked:
a) Driver installation. If using a USB product, the proper driver needs to be installed and configured correctly. Check website for detailed
instructions in this regard.
b) Switch position. If using an AutoProm, there is a switch on the back (black horizontal) of the unit which needs to be placed in the 'toward the
middle of the unit' position. If it is in the 'toward the outside' position, then the chip burning and emulation functions will not work.
3) Assuming that (2) is achieved successfully, you are now ready to put a chip in the unit. Place the chip such that the chip notch or arrow is
oriented in the same direction as the ZIF socket handle, which should be toward the cable connections. Also, make sure that the chip is positioned
away from the ZIF handle, so that the empty holes in the socket are present at the handle end. The orientation and positioning of the chip in the
socket is CRITICAL, so make sure that this is correct. See pictures on website for clarity.
4) Under the 'Tools' menu item, select the 'Moates Prom I/O' option, and you will get a submenu. In here, you should do the following in the correct
order:
a) Select the type of chip you'll be programming from the drop-down menu. This will likely be either the AT29C256 or the 27SF512.
b) Pick the 'Load file to buffer' option, and navigate to find the file you want programmed on the chip. Select it, and it will be loaded to
memory on the PC.
c) Take note of the file size indicated in the message window. It will likely be one of four sizes: 4k, 16k, 32k, or 64k (kbytes).
d) Take a look at the top right part of the window, and you'll see the offset values. This is what we'll do next.
5) The file size, along with the chip size, will determine what offsets you need to use. When you change the offset values, you will notice that other
values will change automatically. Just make sure that the correct values are filled in for all four boxes before programming the chip. The following
table summarizes what offsets you need to use depending on chip used and file size:
File Size Chip Buffer Start -> End Chip Start -> End
4k (4096) AT29C256 000000 -> 000FFF 007000 -> 007FFF
16k (16384) AT29C256 000000 -> 003FFF 004000 -> 007FFF
32k (32768) AT29C256 000000 -> 007FFF 000000 -> 007FFF
4k (4096) 27SF512 000000 -> 000FFF 00F000 -> 00FFFF
16k (16384) 27SF512 000000 -> 003FFF 00C000 -> 00FFFF
32k (32768) 27SF512 000000 -> 007FFF 008000 -> 00FFFF
56k (57344) 27SF512 000000 -> 00DFFF 002000 -> 00FFFF
64k (65536) 27SF512 000000 -> 00FFFF 000000 -> 00FFFF
As you can see, the buffer (or file content) will be placed at the 'end' of the chip.
6) Once you have selected the proper chip, the proper file to use for the program content, and the proper offsets, you are ready to program the chip.
If using a 27SF512 chip, you must 'Erase Chip' first. This is not needed with the AT29C256. Go ahead and select the 'Program Chip' option. Follow
this action with a 'Verify' command to make sure everything programmed correctly. You should get a 'Success' notice.
Using Offsets on Chips
How to use offsets when programming chips:
If the chip you are programming is of a larger capacity than the binary file you are putting on it, you typically need to use an offset with
respect to chip addressing. This option is shown in the TunerPro RT program under 'Moates Prom I/O'. To program a chip, proceed as follows:
1) Ensure that all programs on the PC are closed, and then connect the AutoProm or Flash & Burn unit. If using a serial version of the AutoProm,
connect its power supply. Make sure, if using an AutoProm, that it is disconnected from the car's ECM.
2) Once the unit is connected, start up the TunerPro RT program. You should see at the bottom of the window a message like "Connected: AutoProm 2.5.A" or something similar. If this is not shown, and you instead see "Hardware Not Found", then one of the following needs to be checked:
a) Driver installation. If using a USB product, the proper driver needs to be installed and configured correctly. Check website for detailed
instructions in this regard.
b) Switch position. If using an AutoProm, there is a switch on the back (black horizontal) of the unit which needs to be placed in the 'toward the
middle of the unit' position. If it is in the 'toward the outside' position, then the chip burning and emulation functions will not work.
3) Assuming that (2) is achieved successfully, you are now ready to put a chip in the unit. Place the chip such that the chip notch or arrow is
oriented in the same direction as the ZIF socket handle, which should be toward the cable connections. Also, make sure that the chip is positioned
away from the ZIF handle, so that the empty holes in the socket are present at the handle end. The orientation and positioning of the chip in the
socket is CRITICAL, so make sure that this is correct. See pictures on website for clarity.
4) Under the 'Tools' menu item, select the 'Moates Prom I/O' option, and you will get a submenu. In here, you should do the following in the correct
order:
a) Select the type of chip you'll be programming from the drop-down menu. This will likely be either the AT29C256 or the 27SF512.
b) Pick the 'Load file to buffer' option, and navigate to find the file you want programmed on the chip. Select it, and it will be loaded to
memory on the PC.
c) Take note of the file size indicated in the message window. It will likely be one of four sizes: 4k, 16k, 32k, or 64k (kbytes).
d) Take a look at the top right part of the window, and you'll see the offset values. This is what we'll do next.
5) The file size, along with the chip size, will determine what offsets you need to use. When you change the offset values, you will notice that other
values will change automatically. Just make sure that the correct values are filled in for all four boxes before programming the chip. The following
table summarizes what offsets you need to use depending on chip used and file size:
File Size Chip Buffer Start -> End Chip Start -> End
4k (4096) AT29C256 000000 -> 000FFF 007000 -> 007FFF
16k (16384) AT29C256 000000 -> 003FFF 004000 -> 007FFF
32k (32768) AT29C256 000000 -> 007FFF 000000 -> 007FFF
4k (4096) 27SF512 000000 -> 000FFF 00F000 -> 00FFFF
16k (16384) 27SF512 000000 -> 003FFF 00C000 -> 00FFFF
32k (32768) 27SF512 000000 -> 007FFF 008000 -> 00FFFF
56k (57344) 27SF512 000000 -> 00DFFF 002000 -> 00FFFF
64k (65536) 27SF512 000000 -> 00FFFF 000000 -> 00FFFF
As you can see, the buffer (or file content) will be placed at the 'end' of the chip.
6) Once you have selected the proper chip, the proper file to use for the program content, and the proper offsets, you are ready to program the chip.
If using a 27SF512 chip, you must 'Erase Chip' first. This is not needed with the AT29C256. Go ahead and select the 'Program Chip' option. Follow
this action with a 'Verify' command to make sure everything programmed correctly. You should get a 'Success' notice.
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From: Bartlett, IL
Car: 92 ZR-1
Engine: LT-5
Transmission: ZF-6
Axle/Gears: SuperDana 44 4.10
Re: Bin offsets for different size chips?
Reviving this thread since its been soooo long from when I burned proms. Thank u Mr. Moates for the Ostrich. I want to burn a prom to have as a spare w my current cal, in case something goes wrong w the Ostrich on a long trip. That way I can swap and be on my way.
Looking at the screen capture above, it outlines from Moates the correct offsets for putting various size bins onto larger EEPROMs. I’m using a Burn 2 w TPRT putting a 32k cal onto a 27SF512 SST chip. Previously, I know I have stacked the 32k bin file to create a 64k block.
However, the documentation above from Moates does not mention need for any kind of stacking.
For those of u that remember, would you clarify what needs to be done for a 32k onto a 512?
If stacking is necessary, what are the values for the bin, block, and chip.
Looking at the screen capture above, it outlines from Moates the correct offsets for putting various size bins onto larger EEPROMs. I’m using a Burn 2 w TPRT putting a 32k cal onto a 27SF512 SST chip. Previously, I know I have stacked the 32k bin file to create a 64k block.
However, the documentation above from Moates does not mention need for any kind of stacking.
For those of u that remember, would you clarify what needs to be done for a 32k onto a 512?
If stacking is necessary, what are the values for the bin, block, and chip.
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Mile High Country !!!
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Supreme Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,997
Likes: 12
From: Bartlett, IL
Car: 92 ZR-1
Engine: LT-5
Transmission: ZF-6
Axle/Gears: SuperDana 44 4.10
Re: Bin offsets for different size chips?
TP,
Thanks. To clarify however, is this saying I can take a 32k bin file and put it directly onto a
27SF512 as long as I use the offsets prescribed? I recall when previously doing this, I would need to stack the bin creating a 64k block.
Thanks. To clarify however, is this saying I can take a 32k bin file and put it directly onto a
27SF512 as long as I use the offsets prescribed? I recall when previously doing this, I would need to stack the bin creating a 64k block.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 16,737
Likes: 994
From: Mile High Country !!!
Car: 1967 Camaro, 91 z28
Engine: Lb9
Transmission: M20
Axle/Gears: J65 pbr on stock posi 10bolt
Re: Bin offsets for different size chips?
Yes you can load a single 32k into a sst27sf512 with proper offsets.
I think the bin stacking can be done in tunerpro but if you have moates apu1 or burn burner can use flash and burn.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220119...pFlashBurn.exe
I think the bin stacking can be done in tunerpro but if you have moates apu1 or burn burner can use flash and burn.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220119...pFlashBurn.exe
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,997
Likes: 12
From: Bartlett, IL
Car: 92 ZR-1
Engine: LT-5
Transmission: ZF-6
Axle/Gears: SuperDana 44 4.10
Re: Bin offsets for different size chips?
Well just a quick update. I was able to burn cal onto 27SF512 as outlined in the Moates notes w/o need to stack the bin. However, I needed to make a small change to the bin and I recall now having to do it previously. It was necessary to disable the Cyl Select MALF (Code 41) in the bin. Unless I did that it would throw an SES light. This is on the $D0A Mask ID. I don’t know why as the bin is loaded onto Ostrich with code enabled. If anyone has an explanation, I’d be interested in hearing.
Thanks TP for the help.
Thanks TP for the help.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 16,737
Likes: 994
From: Mile High Country !!!
Car: 1967 Camaro, 91 z28
Engine: Lb9
Transmission: M20
Axle/Gears: J65 pbr on stock posi 10bolt
Re: Bin offsets for different size chips?
Are you referring to checksum disable on an emulator? Sorry not following the cylinder select malf seems like an odd change to have to make .
Supreme Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,997
Likes: 12
From: Bartlett, IL
Car: 92 ZR-1
Engine: LT-5
Transmission: ZF-6
Axle/Gears: SuperDana 44 4.10
Re: Bin offsets for different size chips?
I unchecked that MALF in the cal, and voila it runs fine. Again, not sure why even tho I load same bin BUT w MALF 41 enabled onto Ostrich.
I recall having to do this when previously burning SF512s for my ZR.
Maybe someone has an explanation.
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