Today,I just received a recalibrated Memcal on an adapter from a professional tuner. I opened it up in Tunerpro RT and was looking at where the lower and upper tables overlap at 1600rpm. I was puzzled by the fact the entries at that point were different. Some by nearly 20 points.

It struck me odd. My inclination is to expect them to be the same at identical RPM/KPa points.

Is this common on a properly tuned chip?

Is this Correct?

Or was it possibly overlooked when copying, pasteing in, and finalizing the bin registers?

Please let's be polite in your responses. I'm not looking to praise or slam anyone here, just trying to increase my understanding of what I might be working with.

Iwould like to know also, thanks

They should match up from everything I've read and heard....

If you have the ability to open up a chip and see what's inside you're 75% of the way to doing your own chip. I bet if you start comparing that chip to stock bin's you'll find the one he started with, then you can really see what was changed compared to stock. I bet it isn't much.....especialy if it's from a certain vendor who's name sounds like tbichips.com

Can antone explane why and what the effects be

Ya know, I was going to type you a reply, but since you wanted to dictate my rights to me, forget it.

Have a nice PC day.......

Grumpy ... You are one of the people I AM hoping to hear from. I have great respect for your continued commitment and the enlightenment you give all of us on an unselfish basis and your past answers to me in particular have been greatly appreciated.. You have wisdom earned by persistant hard effort. I got squat.

So now I'm now at a second loss, as I don't understand what in my original question caused you to come away with the feeling that you've been "dictated" to? Where did I offend you? I apologize if that is the case. It was not intended.

I tried to made it plain in my original question that I wasn't trying to create a lynch mob against tuners and was hoping others would understand that, maybe even respect that. I didn't even identify where any of my past chips have come from intentionally so I wouldn't start a ruckus. I was trying to avoid turning this thread into a p!$$!ng contest about Tuners. Just trying to keep on the subject. If you want a contest, send a PM to me, I'll GLADLY tell you who past chips were from... just don't want to do it here. We'll have four or five beers, then urinate on all of them together. Hell, I'll even buy! (although with my bladder it might have to start after three beers)

I'm just looking for the understanding of something which seemed odd , puzzled by the values presented.
Here they are staight from the .bin file:

Kpa ............ 20 ... .... 30 ... .... 40 ... 50

1600 rpm upper 53.06 ... 48.77... 47.60... 49.16
1600 rpm lower 34.72... 40.57... 44.47.. 49.55

It seems odd that there's close to a twenty point difference at the same place. More odd to my limited knowledge is that the "53.06" is unlike any number aorund it in the table. It's a BIG spike on the graph! Maybe it was mis-typed and should have been 43.06, but still would be ten points different from the same index point on the lower table. Since I'm an absolute rookie, maybe there's a solid reason. I haven't a clue, only suspicions.

All I'm saying is that within my limited comprehension, I'm seeing what looks like an inconsistancy for which I have no explanation. I don't know the answer, that's why I'm asking. I don't follow why. I don't pretent to understand it and am searching to know the answer.

Once again I apologize if I have offended Grumpy or others readers/contributors here at third gen.org. I don't know HOW I offended you, but I'm sorry if I did just the same. I probably torqued even more people off by not inviting them over beers with me and Grumpy!

Yes, please don't argue, I would like to know the answer

Yes, they should.
The ecm should never have two possible answers, to any given question.
While it's unlikely that you might be at a perfect 1,600 RPM for more then an instant, it could happen, and then which entry would be the right one?.

Thanks Grumpy! When ya comin' over for them beers?

Thanks for your help

I'm holding out for a steak to go with 'em...

Based on your knowledge, you could hold out for the whole cow.

So my plan is match the overlap points at 1600 rpm in the VE tables by either spliting the difference of surrounding block numbers, or smoothing out the spikes in the 3D graphing mode. I've yet to play with the new Prominator that Mr BIll sent me. I intend to load this modified file as my base program. I also have a file from a fellow forum member for a second file to compare see which allows idle condition best.

Temporarily, I'm clearing two fouled cylinders with the new, but suspect Memcal. Why, because I don't know how to use or load the prominator yet, and only have a PC handy, not a laptop.

NOW I'm up to seven fouled plugs and have started a different thread under "Fuel Fouled Frustrations". I'm torqued as all hell.


Dave Buchholz, Rochester NY

I'm curious as to how you expect to see anything less that 40KPA at 1600rpm with a big cammed 350 w/ automatic transmission. Then I guess that would make since as to why you have concern that the VE tables don't "look" right. BTW.. THere is more to tuning than making pretty graphs. The goal is a car that runs good. The tables are interpolated between surrounding cells so spikes and irregularities will blend together. My educated guess would be that the tuner used datalogs to tune in VE tables and the cells that cannot be acheived in any normal method of driving didn't get as much attention.

Seems like you should quit trying to clean plugs off and get a datalog so we can see what exactly is going on. i wouldn't be suprized to see a bad IAT sensor or bad CTS. It sounds like the car doesn't have enough run time to trip a code with the sensors completely unplugged.

(edited for greater clarity)

Rooster, part of the problem (a BIG part) is that I'm so low on the learning curve that I don't know what to "expect." Please pardon my newbie ignorance, I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ here. I don't have the insight knowledge or skills that a great number of members here have. But that's why I'm here, because I want to learn. I 'm appreciative of everyone who bothers to go out of their way to give time and feedback.

Doesn't it need to be running first to get data? My assumptiom was that I need a to find a base program that's "close" to get in running to begin with? I don't think I done that yet.

With the Key on engine off and datalogging going you will instantly be able to tell if CTS or IAT reads completely unreasonable. You will aslo be able to see TPS volts, MAP volts, O2 volts.. etc.

Here is a better question, why is there a 1600 on both tables in the first place?

If one ends at 1,600 RPM, and the other starts at 2,000 RPM, what values should the ecm use at say 1,800 RPM?.
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A throttle lift should produce that.
Also depends on the MAP plumbing.

1 table is used for 1500 to 1600 values.
The other is used for 1600 to 2000.
If the two don't match, then when you get to 1625ish or where ever that code swaps from table 1 to table 2 at. You'd get a swing in PW.