I just came across this today and couldn't help but see its value and relevance to this forum given the types of questions I've seen here (and in my personal inbox). Although their definition of "hacker" is a bit different than ours, this article definitely applies to the reads/posters here. Please read it, know it, and love it.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

 

Thanks for the link Mark. A good read. None of us are too old to learn some "Internet etiquette".

And by the way for those reading this there is a new release of Tunerpro on Mark's site today. Thanks for the update. Don't you ever get tired?........LOL

I have nothing but good things to say about the effort and results of Mark's Tunerpro.

 

Excellent read.

I vote for sticky status.

 

lol

It should be a sticky no?

But if it was a sticky wouldnt it just get ignored and tossed aside anyhow?

What are those stickies there for anyhow?

lol

later
Jeremy

 

Great info!

 

Hehehe , I'm a noobie , and sorry for asking a stooopid Q? but what is a "sticky" Thanks in advance .

 

Bump. The article should be read by everyone!

 

Actually, when someone asks a really "obvious" question, that link posted.

Also, rather than a sticky, it should be part of the "Agreement" that you must read before you can be a member AND to make certain that you have read it, there should be some "questions" asked that reference the article that must be answered correctly.

Of course that will never happen, but it's nice to dream.

 

hehe to be pointed to after someone neglects all viable options and instead chooses to ignorantly post their personal major CRISIS ! SO MAJOR THEY did not search or look just need to know...NOW!
JERMEY - you'd like me to introduce
I should introduce Elie to this board so far its all about a nice supposedly simple billet proform holley... Just wait IK've been coaxing him to realize the benefit of Modern tech.
Hey but who needs a flashlight to check the gas in their motorcyle; I got a lighter right here. DARWIN BABY! HAHA I love Grims mandatory idea but the search text verification need sucks a bit I understand why but still already
Oh the good news is dumb people often fall victim to natural selection. They often do not have the choice to make that same RETARTED mistake again b/c they eliminated themselves.
Eddie - midnight Rambler
Damn I love this smiley it so me like some people fuzzy dice this **** is me
Crazy Eddie for fun 4 b00bies and for the fun of fun.

 

Hey, I'd support that !

Anyone that knows much about Eric already knows why he wrote that missive, and
why it's "published" as it is.
He and I do disagree on some things, but he's got my respect.
His "Cathedral and the Bazaar" is legendary, and almost required reading for participation in most open source projects.
His dissertation on what's wrong with CUPS documentation is when he became a kindred spirit. Though I think it, I'm seldom that harsh. ( because it WAS Eric, those docs were fixed in relatively short order )
Actually, Grim's idea wouldn't be THAT hard to do.
All that would be needed, is ONE multiple-guess question.
Who is Eric S. Raymond ?
about ten multiple guess answer choices go here.
Two, or three of which are correct, and include simple quotes from his writings.

Think about it. It would force you to do at least some of what he suggests on your own,
with no "other" prompting to get the "right" answer.
( and could be completely automated )

 

A short video that may also help:

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php

 

good link.

maybe just telling people to read some stickies or something like that could suffice...or not who knows.
somebody let me know if their sh_t doesn't stink.
I agree, read first then ask q's.

 

however there's nothing quite as aggravating as people assuming that you didn't read. after 3 hrs of reading,2 hrs of failed testing and then re checking everything you read, having someone tell you it's in the manual will bring your computer dangerously close to having a fist through it. another thing to remember is that the search function here can be damning, and when you don't know all the terminology or really what you are looking for in the first place, i mean really what do you want from a beginner. i appreciate the time and effort put in by the senior members here, i really do, but part of why tgo now has competitors like thirdgen tech is how hard it is step into the arena of being respected and not shunned. the tbi board is quite different, had i started out with a tpi car i probably wouldn't have stayed here as long as i have, running on five years now. The tbi board is far more forgiving and because of that ONE sticky "come in for a FREE tune" i will always understand tbi computers better, it really should be a sticky in this forum as it's what we're all about.
it took me three years to have any usefull answers for other "noobs"(i was 15 when i first joined) i just hope that those with the info can remember that a community cannot be built around apathy for peoples understanding. There's also a generational thing going on here, i see that ALOT of useful tech like reading sparkplugs is kind of ignored here, it's old school and it works but the guys who know that stuff are pretty much not computer guys, only a few bridge that gap, i.e. grumpy. so you have a handful of experienced wrenches vs a ton of computer savvy guys that don't know metric from standard., i'm just trying show a bigger picture from a noob in training. sorry for the rant but being somewhere between winner and luser i wanted to show my point of view.
by the way, want some interesting reading? get some old hot rodder tips from old mags, very diy, very do able, very effective. once you can apply carb stuff to FI (what the crap is an idle circuit in a 32b mask???) you're golden, those guys had some nads man!

 

one suggestion i have, whew i'm long winded sorry. Whenever someone posts, i suggest an attempt to make the title as relevent and close to topic as possible, with keywords in mind. or if the posts were filed perhaps, with keywords attached that bring it up when you search for it so that searching can be made more effective, how many hours have you guys spent reading threads that were interesting but really didn't relate to your problem, but it's five pages long and might have the answer you need! or sifting a library of threads that pop up when you really can't put in narrower search terms. just a thought. you want more people to search first? make it a smoother more effective system, i know im not the first to say this just another .2 cents to add to the other .40 allready here.
okay no posts for a day i promise

 

This internet meca you dream of exists, and it works very....very well. Check out www.corner-carvers.com This gentelmen is the ONLY no BS allowed, tech wielding beast of a site on the net.

Newbies only have access to post in the kiddie pool only once they meander up to the stickies read them completely and PM a moderator with proof that they have indeed read the stickies can they post in the other forums. Even then some oxygen theifs make it through, but never fear the likes of the Matt and Lewis will come up with smack downs so severe that even a drunken sailer will meander off to the closest church to ask for forgivness. It's a great system and a LOT of "corner-carver" greats post on this site just because of the profesionalism and darn good tech that's available. I don't want to drop names, but several profesionals post to the site.

This hard core approach to web forums would never work for thirdgen, too many lemmings that happen to click on sponsor web sites....what can you say they pay the bills. It would be cool to see a second set of forums that require some cognative thought to enter, but be prepared for the endless whining from the masses.

 

Frankly, I'd be somewhat surprised if 6 or 8 of you who's names come to the top of my head don't already have a "private" mailing list !
Newsgroups don't work anymore. Too much spam.
Listserv's seem to be the hot ticket today.

 

pick your poison guys, you're either exclusive and perfectionistic, also known as elitist, or you're open and forgiving, albeit annoyed. you all have done this for years but to me, a couple of years ago i wouldn't even come into the diy prom forum because i didn't know the acronyms, the systems, nothing. as you all have said the learning curve is steep. to know i've gained enough knowledge that i feel i can answer at least a couple of the questions that come up from time to time is rewarding. what would grumpy do? i think his solution was the best, painfully helpfull. he'd answer your question, but in a way that required thought to understand, therefore accomplishing what you all are so keen on, those who want answers get them, but only if they can digest them, give em enough rope to pull themselves up or hang,

tact is the ability to make a point without making an enemy, i'm really trying to apply that to these posts because i worry about the younger tuners who simply don't know any better. if you all go off to your own thing then great for the ten or so of you good enough to be in that club, not so great for the 200+ people relying on this forum to figure this stuff out. How many of you started wrenching with your dad? or an older brother or friend, we were all ignorant and still are in some respects.

 

a lil fyi about corner carvers, copied from the site:
For reference, if you would like to become a member, you must use a valid, acceptable email address. The following email services don't fit the criteria:

gmail
netscape
AOL
yahoo
akamail
eudora
hotmail
operamail
exite
inbox
dodgeit
.ru
.biz
mailinator
aim.com
bigfoot.com

If you use one of the above email services, your personal email was not banned - your service was. Do not even think for a second about asking for an exception. Just because your email service is not on that list does not guarantee that is an acceptable account. To make it simple, freemail accounts do not suffice.

uhhm so i have to be paying for mail, something i get for free, in order to make the cut. i wasted twenty minutes trying to register which was completely my own fault since i assumed that hotmail, a long standing major email service would be acceptable. i wanted to see what the place was about, got my answer. im sure theres great info but i have an email account and have no intention of paying for something free that i won't use. i mean really that pretty much eliminates 90 percent of email users, i dunno what the goal was on that.

 

i know what you mean, i have no ideal what my email address is from my ISP, i have never used it, it isn't web based & they told me it requires me to install their software.
i have used a netscape email address for years because i can access it from anywhere & when i change ISPs, i don't lose my address.

but on the other hand i do understand, if someone is a trouble maker, they want to be able to ban them, so no free email address allowed

 

Nice article at the top.

Corner carver's forums open to read for non-member... what else needed to see what they're about? Seems like a kewl site.

Participation and peer acceptance part of forum experience. Better to ask few intelligent questions (or even a few striving to be intelligent questions) than none at all. You learn more by sitting in the shop, drinking beer, and watching the guys work than by skulking around the back.

I may carry this one with me: "Never assume you are entitled to an answer." Was worth the read to see it in print.

"Who is Eric S. Raymond"
Dangit... now I've wasted most of my morning. Damn you Cflick for posting such a simple question and damn you Google for finding an answer so quickly. Even if I do get back to the chores I'll be stuck in the convolutions of OSS vs Them and the ever growing need to endure evil if only to define Good. I'll likely bash my foot with the splitting maul while considering the implications an automated defense system in which enemies have legal right to obtain and modify source code to said system. Well, if I don't have 'net access from the recovery room this is thanks in advance!

Oh, and Newbies... go away and read "How To Ask Questions The Smart Way"

 

Well, thanks for providing "proof of concept" experience, I guess....