Ok guys,

I'm getting pretty serious about the ecm swap, I have an 85 (870) and just found a (165) that Im ready to put in. Is this a bad idea? from what i've been reading lately if i do get it repinned and put in, im going to have a problem finding .ecu's? All im asking for is to be able to do a little tweaking and I would like to keep the software portion of this project shareware. Please no flaming the 165 and telling me to go SD. THANKS!

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1985 IROC-Z, nuff said :P

 

It's not a matter of flaming.
There are somethings that just make sense.
For all the effort to do that swap you could get a 730 in there. There are just so many MAFs in the system, and just as an example the GN MAFs are no longer available, and converting to the late ones costs several hundred dollars.

With a MAP system that sensor was used in millions of P-Us and should be available about forever. Also, the 730 is a more reliable ecm.

I've been down this path with dozens of guys. It's far easier to do it *right* once. Saving the $100 in software can cost you hundreds in labor, by the time your done.

 

Can i please get a more direct answer to my question from a 165 supporter
thanks

Whether I just dont want to buy a MAP sensor, Or I like slower baud rates My reason is my reason and I'd like to stay MAF.
Thanks for responses

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1985 IROC-Z, nuff said :P

 

Check out www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/ecm_swap/ he's already done it and made a great site covering it and other conversions.



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86 406

 

Thanks for the link

But I've been there more times than I can count. I know WHAT needs to be done, im just asking for people who've experienced this, from what im reading on this board the 165 is a hard one to get the software for (ecu's etc) Thanks

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1985 IROC-Z, nuff said :P

 

I have an 88 Vette with a 165. For Diags, I use Craig Moates' sw (free) and lots of people are running the ARAP code which is also a 165. There is an ECU for it. You can also go with Tunercat. If you sre set on using a 165, the software portion will not be your problem.

 

I am not sure, but doesn't the 1985 use a different type of MAF sensor than the later years? If so, factor that into your "cost of conversion".

FYI, a 7730 ecm are a "dime a dozen" at a wrecking yard. They are used in so many 3.1 V6 cars. Cavaliers, Grand Ams, Sunbirds, Berettas, Corsicas...virturally any car with a 3.1 V6 except W-bodies (which use the 7727 which is the Vette verstion and F-bodies...for some weird reason they use a 404 IIRC.

 

All of the software is available and much easier to get apposed to the 870. BUT, Let me tell you from experience. Yes, you don't want to hear this, you've read it a MILLION times, yea yea, you know what your doing and have your reasons for the 165. I had the 165, In fact, I have 2 165ecms ,a Wells MAF sensor, and the entire ESC/MAF burnoff+power relay rack sitting on my counch in computer room waiting for a home. Simple fact, as stated by Grumpy above(its costs MUCH more, parts WON'T be available forever).

If you are still wanting the 165, thats fine. More power to you, follow Mike's site to a T and you will be fine. I know I don't have any personal experince with the 870-165 swap, but it can't be too far from the 165-730 i did.
I'm just about done with my preaching, Just one more thing to add

165 ecm needs a TPS/IAC/MAF burnoff+power relays/MAF sensor

730 ecm needs a TPS/IAC/MAP senor

The cost of a MAF sensor is about 280+bucks, each relay is about 10-20bucks each.
The MAP sensor is about 35+bucks..

Its almost common sense.

I'm not coming down on you, just trying to show you my points...


Brendan

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1987 IROC-Z L98,SuperRam,EB 6085's,LPE 219/219 Roller, Crane 1.6RR, EB TPI Base, 58mm TB, ADS 24#, AFPR, K&N, EB TES, Catco Cat, 3" Borla Cat-Back, Accel cap,rotor,distro/other crap, MSD 6AL, MSD Blaster 3, Aluminum DS, 94 Disk Rear, Adjustable Valve, Precision 3.73 Gears, Sub-Frame Connectors, Hotchkis Lower Control Arms, KYB Shocks/Struts, Suspension Techniques Lowering Springs, Polyurethan Bushings all over the place, Moog Upper/Lower Ball joints and Tie Rods ends/Idler Arm,

To see the ROC, Check out the webpage Here

 

Well thanks for "your point"

But there are other reasons for my decision also. For one 730's are NOT a dime a dozen around here, for starters the NEWEST camaro in a wrecking yard in a 3 hour radius from here is an 84. Thus the 165 I found is coming out of a different vehicle (astro van) for a 730 I'd have to look even harder. Also I hear the map is less forgiving to mods, If im LEARNING to do something i dont want to jump into the hardest thing first, last the MAF sensor is fine from 85-89 so no new parts need to be bought. Then the swap from 870-165-730 means more work than i think you guys realize, this IS a daily driver and i have NO backup vehicle. I appreciate the warnings etc etc, and if i become convinced to run 730 so be it, it just seems to be more of a hassle than im ready for. (and can one of the moderators please find out why my home isps IP is blocked, i can only use the board from work )

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1985 IROC-Z, nuff said :P

 

The 870-165 swap is a swap for those who want the better ability to make their own proms and capture data without the need to hack their harness too much. The 85 MAF sensors are the same as 86-89. I have my original bosch unit working with the 165 fine. All documentation form GM, including my 1985 GM shop manual, show the wiring for the bosch sensor. Supposedly the special 85 MAF sensor had 6 wires instead of the standard five.

For my swap I didn't need to touch anything in the engine compartment. It was all done inside the vehicle, including the installation of the relays, which were installed on a hacksawed bracket that theburnoff module was formerly bolted too.

I have a 730 ECM which one day I might install. I haven't looked into the swap on mike davis's site but right now I'm about ready to install my new engine. I'm sure the 730 is just as easy to swap but the 870-165 swap is a no brainer.

For me the 165 was a simple swap which allows me to customize my PROM and capture data with the lowest risk of failure. My camaro is my daily driver. It has to work or I don't.


James

 

IROC, what engine was in that Astro Van? The only "trucks" that used the 165 were the 87-91 2.5 TBI LN4 (Vin "E") and 1991 2.5 TBI L38 (Vin "A") that I can see on the "Cross Reference Tables".

As for not finding any 7730s, I find it hard to believe that there are no early 90s 3.1 Cavaliers in your wrecking yards. They are plentiful here, along with a lot of other versions of the 3.1 and 2.8 that used the 7730.

 

You could actually order Astro vans with a 2.5L TBI motor.. I robbed a few sensors off of one for my S-10 before. I would presume that the 91-up 4-cyl astro vans would use the 165 just like the S-trucks.

 

FWIW, the Howell TPI troubleshooting book says that all Bosch MAF sensors are the same from 85-89.

 

And Standard Brand Ignition parts show the 85 as a stand alone year.