I really like all the responses the original thread generated and I am very happy to see someone is watching out for the tbi crowd which I am a part of, it just takes so long to load up just to read the last couple of post so how about continuing the topic here.

Steve

Just so we don't lose touch with the other thread here's a link.https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/002113.html



[This message has been edited by steve8586iroc (edited November 14, 2001).]

 

New version 1.01b

* Buggfix Sometimes the INT / BLM / O2 tabs would stop updating when switching from Spark tab. (if high RPM / high MAP)

* Changed the TPS percentage range ( -13.3% to +110% ) to put 0% at 0.54Volts and 100% at 4.60Volts. The range can be changed in the configuration file WINALDL.INI



------------------
Jonas Bylund

 

Steve, the best part is, there's even more to come for the TBI crowd. I'm working on some other things as well.

Ken

 

I can't wait for the realtime eprom emulator. That's going to be great! When do you think you'll have that information available?
BTW, the never version of winaldl is a big thumbs up. Joby, I don't know how or why but your program is number 1 in quality, simplicity, flexibility, you name it. Your program looks like it's worth a thousand dollars while Diacom has a "freeware" look. It's amazing that they're still only working in DOS! It's as if they just gave up with the whole development thing. That is why I don't understand the high price tag....oh well.

 

ken..secrets...secrets!!

 

Oooohh.. more stuff. Woo! I'd really like a working dos scanner though.. old 486 laptop does *not* like refreshing under windows as quickly as a scanner needs to.. reading raw data values is absolutely impossible... (hint, hint, log I could transfer to my home machine and run through the app would be really nifty on this note, hint).. Other than that, this thing rocks, and seeing as the problem is really just my outdated hardware, it flat out rocks =)

Hey Craig Moates, if you read this, what happened to the open source concept? I'd love to help get your software at least reading the 160 baud tbi data stream (which it does already, but the values bounce all over the place eratically due to the byte count and timing differences)

EDIT: upon further examination, the data is total garbage.. but the potential is there, and it does recognize the presence of a data stream, even if it can't read it.. I suppose I'll do work on one of the old versions.. see if I can convert it..

------------------
'88 Camaro, hunter green metallic, T-top
LO3 305 TBI/700r4
Performance mods: MSD Coil
Audio mods: Pioneer DEH-P3000, Pioneer 6x9s, Optimum 260 watt 3 channel amp driving 6x9's, prepping to build sealed glass sub box for single 12"

'86 Camaro, ultra silver metallic /w dark blue metallic racing stripes
2.8l MPFI/700r4 /w special 2nd gear delete option
Misc Mods: Cut air box, '83 Firebird spoiler.
Performance Parts: Accel 8mm wires, SplitFire plugs, Gabriel hijackers, poly swaybar bushings.

My Homepage, with pics.

[This message has been edited by TechSmurf (edited November 17, 2001).]

 

Jonas, question about the BLM and INT tables. What are the setting in the lower right? Narrow average, wide....etc. I don't really understand exactly what's going on with them.

 

If we look at the RPM axes first, and skip MAP.

400
800
1200
1600
2000
2400
2800
3200

the resolution of the RPM signal is 25.

Let's use 1200 as example

Wide Latest Each sample will go to the closest cell. The 1200 cell will cover all RPM values from 1000 to 1399. (1000,1025,1050,1075,1100,1125,1150,1175,1200,1225,1250,1275,1300,1325,1350,1375)

Narrow Latest will show the latest value in a narrower RPM range. The range is in the INI file (NARROWRPM). Defaut value is 80. That will translate to 1200 +- 80 or from 1120 to 1280.(1125,1150,1175,1200,1225,1250,1275)

So in the Narrow setting some samples will be discarded because they are too far from the scale numbers.

NARROWMAP is the same thing for the MAP axes, but that value is multiplied by 100 so the default value of 200 translates to +-2.00 kpa

Avg is Average of all samples that qualified to that cell.

To use the same resolution as the sampled values the grid would be 256*256=65536 cells ... pretty BIG ... so we decided to use the same grid size as the VE table in the chip.

The ECM interpolates all the values between the cells in the calibration table.

I don't like the names for that setting very much. Can you think of better names?

Narrow Latest
Narrow Avg
Wide Latest
Wide Avg



------------------
Jonas Bylund

 

Well, I'll give you guys a bone on the EPROM emulator. It's a project another one of my CrossFire friends and I started working on. (He's an EE, so I knew what to tell him.) I already had a few ideas that I tossed around with him and he's already built one and sent to me, but we've since abandoned that idea in favor of a new one. (I may still use it as a test bed though.)

The new one involves two EEPROM's - we're using EEPROM's because they *don't require battery backup* and yet they can be programmed easily. Simple enough, but the other part of the equation is he's developing code for a PLD (programmable logic device) that takes care of the bank switching itself, so that while one EEPROM is being read by the ECM, the other one is "empty" so to speak, waiting to be programmed by the parallel port. (I'm using the PP for speed, and because WinALDL uses the serial port. Nice simple combo.) Once the "empty" EEPROM is programmed fully, the PLD will simply switch banks. The newly programmed EEPROM will be the one that's being read by the ECM, and the one previously being read, will now become the new "empty" EEPROM. (It won't actually be empty of course, it just won't be read by the ECM.)

At first I wasn't in favor of the PLD, because I thought it was too complex. However, when your chip count goes from a gazillion chips to just three.. it's hard to argue. Not to mention, the PLD is easily programmed, and very small. It also makes routing the wires MUCH simpler, so PC board design can be highly simplified.

As to whether I intend to make this a commercial product or not depends on the complexity of building it, really. If it's a real PITA to make, and possibly beyond the scope of most DIY'ers, I will resort to making them myself. (I may do this anyway.) If it's something a DIY'er can make, I will release the routing for the PCB, as well as the code for the PLD and the software for uploading the BIN files to the entire device. My friend assures me it's a fairly simple thing to program the PLD and requires no external programmer. (I believe it's a simple serial interface that could probably be built onto the board itself.)

Now, the whole idea is that you'd have a relatively small board (3"x3"??) that you could have a 2" or so DIP-to-IDC connector, where the DIP would plug in IN PLACE of the original EPROM. A 25-pin plug would protrude from your ECM's case, which you'd plug into your parallel port. You'd hide the entire device INSIDE your ECM. Not only would the ECM casing provide excellent shielding, but since the EEPROM's basically replace the original EPROM, there's no need to open the ECM anymore. Program.... drive around.... stop, read WinALDL, make your changes in WinBin or TunerCat, then upload them (via software I will probably have to write unless Jonas wants to get involved.) The engine doesn't even have to stop, provided you didn't make any actual "code" changes, just parameter changes (fuel/spark/etc.) Ideally, you could have someone else drive your car per your instructions, while you sit in the passenger seat and tune!

No reason to buy an EPROM programmer OR an eraser, much less any chips.

The whole project is on hold right now though, as both of us (me and my EE friend) are unemployed at the moment. I can't really afford to spend on this right now.

BTW, yes, this *IS* for the TBI cars - it's geared towards a 2732A replacement.

Ken

 

HOLY COW,,,That's one of the most awesome things I've ever heard!!! You have certainly Helped the TBI comunity to the MAX! Needless to say I would buy one or better yet, build one my self. THNAKS A TON FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE DONE!!!

-Lars

 

You might touch base with Eric Amos (Mr Winbin) he had a really really slick one about to the stage of being released, last I heard.
It was targeted for the C3 ecms.

 

Actually I have been in touch with Eric - he's where I got some of my original ideas. The chip count for his was a little high, as where our new design only calls for 3 chips - 2 EEPROM's and 1 PLD. Plus, his required a battery backup, which I don't really trust. The IDT dual-port RAM is cool, but it scares me a little too much since it can "crash" if the ECM and programmer are trying to read/write to the same address. (Although you can get a 2x chip and bank switch with it and eliminate that problem.) Otherwise his design is VERY slick. Believe it or not, it was after perusing the archives for hours on end one night that I came across some posts by Ludis that gave me a few ideas, mainly the bank switching idea. I would have used the dual-port RAM, but I wanted something robust that could be programmed, then disconnected and still retain the data. I.e. if your (car) battery went dead, it wouldn't kill the data, and subsequently the car. The EEPROM's we chose have a 10 year data retention (maybe longer?) A bit more expensive (not much) but well worth it, in my opinion.

Ken

 

Ok, I finally got my cable to work, I was hoping for some help though.

1. What are you using to hold the wires into the diagnostic port of the car?

2. Is it possible for someone to send a list of acceptable values for the different sensors and tabs in the program? I know that the website has some of the info, but anything a little more in depth would be better.

Thanks for any help,
Mike

------------------
1989 RS.. 355, Hypereutectic pistons, double roller cam, double roller timing chain, accel wires, blue streak cap and rotor, rapidfire plugs, chevy caprice 350 chip, 200* fan switch, 3 angle valve job, 3 inch cat-back exhaust, 3 core radiator, 3.73 gearing with POSI.

 

I just tinned the ends of some 18-gauge stranded wire and jammed them in there really good. I'm looking for a source for the OTC ALDL connector on the GMECM pages. (Anyone?)

Most sensors are 0-5 volts. TPS and MAP are this way. Coolant temp is.. well.. if you don't know...... Oxygen sensor (O2) is 0-1 volt. Some of it depends on your calibration, really. (Such as BLM limits.)

Ken

 

Ver 1.02a Beta is out now.

http://www.winaldl.webhop.net

* New configuration dialog - no more editing in the INI file.

* New data logging with dialog.

* New configurable TPS percentage range.
* The 1227808 data is updated.
* Buggfix New MAT calulation.



------------------
Jonas Bylund

 

I bent a paper clip to make it straight, then cut two 3/4" sections, and soldered them to the wire. It fits in there pertty snug.

 

And another version ...
1.02b
* Buggfix Log dialog did not show on all windows installations.



------------------
Jonas Bylund

 

Time to upgrade again!

Ver 1.03a

* Extended the RPM range on all tables to 6400 RPM.
* The INT / BLM / O2 tables have some new data modes to select from.
* All the different INT / BLM / O2 modes are saved to the same file. No need to step thru all the different modes and save each of them separatly.

And the data modes you can select now:

Narrow Latest
Discard all data that is not close to the axes values.
Show latest data in each cell.

Narrow Avg
Discard all data that is not close to the axes values.
Show averaged data in each cell.

Narrow # Sapmles
No of samples in each cell in the 'Narrow Avg' selection.

Narrow Avg 10
Average of the 10 latest samples.

Narrow Std. Dev. 10
Standard deviaton for the 10 latest samples.

Wide Latest
Do not discard any data. Show latest data in each cell.

Wide Avg
Do not discard any data. Show averaged data in each cell.

Wide # Samples
No of samples in each cell in the 'Wide Avg' selection.

Wide Avg 10
Average of the 10 latest samples.

Wide Std. Dev. 10
Standard deviaton for the 10 latest samples.

When you save INT / BLM data the file will have two additional tables:

Narrow Correction 10
Correction factors for the EPROM table based on the values in the
'Narrow Avg 10'. Multiply the cell you want to change in the EPROM
with the value in the corresponding 'Narrow Correction 10' cell.
The value in the 'Narrow Std. Dev. 10' table is used to see if the
data in that cell is good enough to use for a new calibration or not.

Wide Correction 10
Correction factors for the EPROM table based on the values in the
'Wide Avg 10'. Multiply the cell you want to change in the EPROM
with the value in the corresponding 'Wide Correction 10' cell.
The value in the 'Wide Std. Dev. 10' table is used to see if the
data in that cell is good enough to use for a new calibration or not.


And the idea with these new tables ...

'# Samples' - not really useful to tune from, but you can see that you have sampled eough data from the cells you are tuning.

'Avg 10' - to have a 'short term' average that continues to update even after you have run the program for a long time.

'Std. Dev. 10' - A quality measurement for the 'Avg 10' values.


I think that this is a good way to use the program:

* First start the car a drive around to reach operating temperature.
* Clear the data to start with an empty table.
* Select the '# Samples' mode and try to get at least 10 samples in all the cell you are trying to tune.
* Select the 'Std. Dev. 10' mode and contine to sample data until you have 'good' data, low numbers indicate that the data is similar in all the 10 latest samples.
* hit the save button and analyse the data in the text-file when you are done.


The stored text file will also have a 'Correction 10' table with recommended VE table chages. Multipy the current VE cell value with the vaule in the corresponding cell in the 'Correction 10' table and you have the new value to use.

------------------
Jonas Bylund


[This message has been edited by JoBy (edited December 03, 2001).]

 

Just keeps getting better. Thanks for all the hard work, Jonas. I'll be putting the new program to good use the next couple of nights, after I get my latest PROM back and installed, that is.

 

anyone have any substitute part numbers for the transistor? One that I will be able to find at radio-shack or Fry's Electronics? No one has the 2N2222. I'm going to go ahead and make the cable, and try the USB to RS-232 adapter and see if the software agrees with it. But I need the transistor first, it's the only thing I can't find. Thanks.

Anthony

------------------
previous ride: 87 Camaro LT
350, A4.Comp Cams 268H, Edelbrock Preformer intake, Hedman Headers and y-pipe, gutted cat, No AIR/smog pump. 14x3" Open element K&N, Q-jet w/ D hanger and DA rods, adjusted AV spring tension and quick can.

Current ride: 1992 Camaro RS, K&N, Flowmaster, 305, T5, Black, T-tops, 84k miles.

 

The RPS2222? From Radio Shack works just fine. Not sure if it is RPS or not but it had 2222 in the part number and works just fine. That's what I used for Fast_broker's cable.

-Lars

 

I picked up cat. # 276-1617, it's just 15 of the damn things. Oh well it was only $2.49. My problem now is getting a configurable COM port with RS-232 level data transfer. The USB to RS-232 adapters don't indicate an ability to configure the COM port, or even if they act like a COM. They have the whole open box return policy **** going on to, so that won't fly, b/c I have no other use for it aside from using the scan software. I did however find a PCMCIA card that allows you to configure for what COM port it will use, and has a standard DB9 interface, only it's $149. Now I could get a scan tool for less than that, BUT, it doesn't data log, and I love the WinALDL layout.

my plan is to build the cable(bought all the stuff), and get the PCMCIA card. I'm done with school for the semester on Saturday, so I'll have time to get it all sorted out. Thanks for the info guys.

Anthony

 

I've been thinking and had a wild idea while playing with the aldl software.. Since the program can real the fuel mixture and the amout of air the engine is eating could it make a calculation of how much fuel the car is eating? You know Miles per gallon? It would be great to see the milege and how mods effect it in plain numbers. Just an idea

 

You would need to figure the fuel pressure, have accuratly measured the injector flow ratings and even then it would be hard to be accurate with the miles per gallon. It would have been easier if there was a flow meter inline on the supply line to the injectors. But that would cause more restriction for your fuel pump that isn't needed BUT that would be the most accurate way to figure your mpg. Just take the flow and somehow rig up the miles traveled meter. The whole problem is that you would also need to figure how much is going back into the tank on the return line. It just isn't worth it.
Besides, mpg is a junk number that is better off figured out with the trip meter and a couple trips to the gas station.

 

Jon, the '84 Vette has this display in it - while not extremely accurate, it does what I think he's looking to do - display a general instant and average MPG. This is one of the other projects I've been working on - getting that display to work with the '7747 upgrade. The original '84 Vette ECM actually puts out only 5 bytes during normal driving, of which the digital dash receives information from it, but we haven't figured out what it is yet.

It's possible, just a hassle and won't be super-accurate.

Ken

 

My friend's Jeep had that. It was only good if you had a stock engine. It would get all pissy when you floored it.