I was driving around doing my VE learn and the car just pings all the time, the base timming is 0 and its 0 in the EBL, here is my EBL log, i hope some one can look at it and give me a idea of where to start.
dl the EBL log here http://download.yousendit.com/B088188A1B4895E0

 

I also wonder if 10 degrees on the IAT sensor makes a big dif? it was saying the incomming are was 94 F and its not even 80 F here so i moved the sensor into the actual intake duct, it went down around 10 degrees then. but im not sure if this helps or hurts ping and or the VE tables.

 

Looking at the log shows a couple of things, one is the ping, the other is too much AE.

Dropping the IAT temperature will enrich the AFR a little. And change the VE table on learns a little. Only if using the CTS/CTS SA comp table will it affect the ping.

Currently highway mode is enabled and the engine pings constantly during that period. Best to disable it until the tune is better. Set this value to 255 MPH:

HiWy - Min MPH to enter HiWay mode

One thing to do is to double check the actual base timing on the engine, then verify that it is the same in the BIN. A discrepency here will either add timing, or remove timing.

If correct, then remove a few degrees of timing from those areas that ping.

Just ran the log through a VE Learn on playback. The VE corrections are low, could use another learn or two. Otherwise it is time to move on to the higher load areas and do some manual tuning if required.

The ping is pretty bad with peak retard in some areas as high as 8 degrees. Definately double check the timing first. If that is correct then lower most of the timing table by 4 degrees. Leave the idle area alone, look at the playback SPK screen. This will show where the knock is occurring. Lower those areas and blend it in to the corresponding areas.

BTW: what engine/cam/heads is this?


Almost forgot: AE, I would lower the TPS & MAP PW tables by about 10%. See if that leans out the tip in a little.

RBob.

 

Ok i disabled highway mode, I used my timing light and double checked and its set to 0 ( the deep gooves valley ) its also set to 0 in the bin in initial SA, the engine is a 305 lo3 with swirlport heads. its basically stock right now but as soon as i understand this tune stuff i have better heads and LT1 cam and headers for it. I will do more VE learn today , however im not sure what you mean by lower a table by 10% can you bare with me and tell me how to do this? do you mean open the table and lower each value under usec by 10%? and can you explain what this does in terms of tunning?
oh and before i orget how can i tell what areas are pinging and then where to i remove timming form those spots at in the bin?

 

A stock L03 requires less timing then the BIN provides. I'll put together a set of timing tables from an L03 for you and post it.

To lower a table by 10% it is easiest to use the TunerPro (TP) toolbox. Open the BIN in TP, double click on that table entry to bring up the table. If you do the AE - TPS PW table, the left side will have TPS% from 50 down to 0. The right hand side will have values in uSec (micro seconds).

Now click & hold on the first uSec entry and drag the mouse down. All of the entries will now be light blue (with the left in light yellow).

Click on the Toolbox button, under Function Type select Multiply, under Value put .9, then click Execute. The uSec values will now be lower by 10%, and red in color.

Click the Save button, and then save the BIN.

Do the same with the AE - MAP PW table.

Reducing the values in those 2 tables will decrease the volume of AE. In the carb world it is called pump shot. This is extra fuel that is injected during opening throttle.

Pinging areas: open the WUD, select File -> Playback, give it the name of your data log. The WUD will now be showing your dat alog being played back. Now click on the 'SPK' on the menu bar. Select the Peak radio button to see the highest SA retard for that RPM/MAP point.

I'll usually set the playback speed high, do this on the WUD screen. No need to wait in real time for the results. The data is sticky in that you can switch from WUD, to MPG, VE, and SPK at any time and in any order.

RBob.

edit: here are the L03 timing tables. Filling in these values will be a better starting point. Note that once over 4,000 RPM the values are the same. So do a cut & paste for those to save some time. Highlight the row, hit CTRL-C to copy, then highlight the row above, and hit CTRL-V to paste.

 

Question, is it more performance to use as much timming in each cell as you can with out ping? in other words would it be better to data log and look at the peak retard for a given cell and just take that much from the bin? or am i thinking wrong here? also why am i removing pump shot did you see somthing in my play back that suggested to much fuel at throttle tip in?

 

You don't want to use more timing than necessary. Use the least amount of advance to make the power and keep the engine responsive.

I found this timing table to work very well in TBI 4.3/305/350s with swirl port heads. I ran it in my 350 TBI, currently run it with the Vortecs, and it runs great in my little brothers 4.3 TBI Astro Van.

The timing table is a slightly tweaked table from a 1998 S10 Blazer.

I would recomeend my timing table and changing the other values on the last screen shot. One is the IAT/CTS blended timing compensation. Second is the Coolant compensation vs. MAP vs. SA correction table. Both of the previous are based on a constant of 9.84*, a higher number adds timing, and a lower number removes timing. We are concentrating on removing timing as the cylinder heads and the intake air temperature increase in temperature. I would adjust the IAT/CTS fueling blend. I have found all three run very well in a TBI system with a stockish engine.

Finally, GET THOSE COOLANT TEMPS DOWN. 195* is terrible for trying to get any power out of a smallblock TBI engine. I would run a 170 thermostat and turn the fans on at 180*F and off at 175*F. Thats what my TBI 350 in the Van runs best at. Here is why.



The LB4/L03/L05 has a terrible quench distance at .050" and a very high dynamic compression ratio, around 8.4-8.5:1. That means that by the chart (which came from a 350) the stock 305 needs 96 octane to run right when tuned properly with a 195* thermostat. It can run on 87 octane, but will not run any timing advance. You can easily see how dropping the thermostats temperature can be a good benifit.

 

Ok i think i will have to get the thermostat first, i have been doing ve learn runs for the last few hours and i am getting the ping under control but my numbers in some cells need to be alot lower then the same cells listed in your chart, my fan is set to run all the time but the stock thermostat wont let me go lower, tommorow i will get a 175 for it. then perhaps your timing chart will work? also i think we have dif versions of tuner becuase your files say open throttle at the top and mine dont. and lastly i changed my tables to match yours in that last pic you posted, but could you please explain what each table does and how why we went with the numbers we did? i mean rbobs base ebl i started with had way dif numbers in all those cells.

 

I think the timing chart will get alot closer to working properly, when you bring the engine temps down some. I am surprised you don't feel a dramatic, noticeable difference between a hot and a cool engine now.

I do have a different XDF file, because mine is running a MAF TBI setup based on the 1993-1996 TBI PCM used in trucks (this is the timing table). I also have the EBL system which is where the other 3 listings came from.

The reason the other three need to be changed is to compensate for intake air temperature and its effect on the engines operation. I will use a hair dryer on a barbeque grill example to get charcoal burning properly. Think of hot underhood air as a blow dryer. Now start a fire (within the combustion chamber of the engine), faning the coals with cold air will eventually get the fire going. Now instead of fanning the coals, put a hair dryer on it. The coals will burn fiercly, like a blast furnace. Hot air will cause the mixture to burn faster and help detonation set in. That is why the timing needs to be pulled as the intake air temps increase. Also the timing needs to be retarded when the head (combustion chamber) starts to get hot.

The IAT/CTS blend is slightly modified from a stock GM calibration, used on the 4.3 TBI in a 1996 fullsize van. It has run well in everything I have run it in. Using mostly IAT in the higher load, more airflow situation helps correct for changes in air density.

The SA compensation tables are also generated from stock GM TBI engines.

The main SA table came from a vortec 4.3 pulling around a 4,500 lbs truck.

The fact that the SA table runs well in engines that are pulling around alot more weight tells me something is wrong in your setup.