I want to keep my NB in while using a WB and put the WB bung on the pass side exhaust tube right behind the collector in the steel pipe. It's probably easier to mount on the exhaust pipe than the header itself. I would like to compare the NB to the WB while tuning. Anybody have success with this and the EBL?

Mike

 

just bought a zeitronix. the spending continues...lol
can't wait to get that puppy in.

 

It wont cause any issues.

The wideband can be put anywhere thats easily accessable (provided its at least somewhat sheltered from debris).

 

I know the white wire goes into an A/D channel on the EBL, the brown wire is ground also hooked into the EBL's terminal. Where can I wire the WB's power? Where is another key-on wire to tap into? I swapped in a three-wire NB O2 and wired it up, but it's shoddy. I can't seem to find the ignition wire that everyone talks about

Mike

 

Maybe you can look at this pic and clear it up for me. Don't think I want to be spoonfed- just want to make it right.WBinst.JPG
I think I got it, just want to make sure.
Thanks Dimented for the help

Mike

 

If youll be mounting the control box near the ECM, you can pull switched power from the ign. wire feeding the ECM. If its going to be a full time installation, you can also use the simulated narrow band output in place of the stock O2 sensor.

 

Usually the fuse block will have an extra IGN+ tap or two. Then a solid chassis or engine block ground for the power gound.

At the EBL connect the white wire to your channel of choice (0-7), and the brown wire (sensor gound) to a ground terminal on the EBL. There are 3 GND terminals (note the last terminal is S, not a ground).

Then select that channel and the 'Zeitronix' as the WB. Don't use the 'Zeitronix Lnr', that is for when the simulated output has been reprogrammed as a linear output. Which you can do along with changing the wire. Using the purple instead of the white.

RBob.

Edit: as for using both a NB and WB at the same time, yes, it is done all of the time. In the toy car I have both and use the NB for closed loop idle. Open loop elsewhere. Also run a WB full time for logging purposes.

Try to keep the WB sensor down the exhaust. The Bosch sensors do not like heat.

 

Great tips. Thanks Rbob.

Mike

 

Mike,

I had my NB and ZT-2 sitting next to each other in the driver's side collector. Been that way for over a year with no problems. I tapped the ECM ign power for power to the WB.

 

running the WB all the time? I thought you should only use them during tuning sessions. then again, when do you drive your car and not think about tuning?
I bought an O2 bung and plug So I could remove the WB

 

If youll only have it installed for short periods of time, use the cigarette lighter for power and put a bung in an easily accessable place. Radioshack sells the adaptor, PN 270-1559. Switched 10A adaptor with bare leads.

 

SO I take it you can run the Zeit all the time. I wonder if there's a way to have the EBL use WB data instead of NB data for closed loop?

 

Its possible to do closed loop with the wideband. Some have done it on here. But, the A/D's have very poor resolution, and you wont have much control over the fueling. The stock O2s response curve allows the computer to more precisely control the fueling.

The WB controller does have a simulated output for the stock O2 so you could just use the wideband alone. The controller will make a faux output that resembles that of the stock O2.

 

You can run the WB all of the time. The start of the WB movement was when Honda factory equip'd Civic's with them. That provided the actual sensor at over the counter price & availability.

When selecting a spot to install the sensor be sure to find a protected area. The harness also needs to be set up where it won't catch on anything. Or lay on a hot exhaust pipe.

The one car never gets driven in bad weather so I don't worry about water splash and such. The WB was installed years ago and has never been removed. If I data log, it's there.

The mule I was taking the sensor out and re-installing on a regular basis. Got tired of that and finally just left it in place. Even through the winter and lots of rain the WB setup works. I am using NGK sensors which do seem to be more robust then the Bosch sensors. That may play a part in it.

As for using the WB for closed loop fueling, I've done it, it works, and it made me way too nervous to retain it. A WB setup is a bit more complex then a NB sensor. Anything goes wrong and the engine fueling is out the window. At WOT it can mean a melted engine (it's been done). Even with the 10-bit ADC resolution of the EBL setup it isn't worth risking an engine over.

The actual AFR the engine runs at is not critical. It can vary quite a bit and still make power and have good driveability.

RBob.

 

The NB is built for what it is supposed to do. I just left it that way.

 

Are the 10-bit A/Ds actually addressable within the computer itself? That would be pretty wild if so...

Even NB O2s can be dangerous. I had a massive vacuum leak at the intake base on my daily driver (96 taurus) and the LTFT for that one cylinder bank was running 25-30% over to compensate for the 'lean' condition and the car was getting around 10 MPG. Not only that, but since these cars where also available as flex-fuel as well, the fueling corrections where applied during cranking, which caused that cylinder bank to totally flood out.

I think like anything else, closed loop wideband would need some safety limits to prevent the computer from overly compensating for a false issue.

 

I think I'll leave it in for a couple weeks, considering I'll be tuning every day. Looks like I'm gonna leave the 3-wire NB where it is.

The actual WB that comes in the Zeitronix kit is a Bosch...wonder how long it will last.

 

That's what I did. And my ZT-2 was run several times a week for the past year with np. Sensor is still original.

 

Interesting, I was/am so stuck on WB use for closed loop- I was informed that when the WB failed the mileage goes out the window- never thought that the opposite was true too- rich who cares- lean is a big problem.

 

WB for closed loop. awesome
how do I do it with the EBL?
-I'm sure someone has thought of this before

calling Rbob...lol