hey all. new to ebl and tuning. i am not new to high performance or motors so i have basic knowledge. i have looked and looked and studied all over the forms for hours till it all runs toghter but there is so much and seems i cant find just the basics. i can get the car to run and drive but it doesnt have the ***** the stock computer has. it is a tbi 305 soon to be a modified 350 tbi. but before i put the new motor in i wanted to get the feel of tuning with the ebl flash. i have hesitation if i just ease on the gas from stop and i can smell to much fuel. i have done several ve learns and flashed them in with a little help but still if any can post a helpfull link or just tell me what to look for and what to do to change it. sorry for the long post. but thatnks in advance.

 

Wich bin are you using?

 

i am using bin 19 thats is for a 90 caprice with a 305 with 700r4. i have a few cars that i will be tuning but this is the one i am learning on thanks for any help

 

Are the learns adding or removing fuel? Do you see a trend?

Are the BLMs pegged to max like 112 or so? You can only get BLM correction within a range of say 112-150 depending on your window.. If you are outside that window it may take a while.

Are you running stock fuel pressure with stock injectors?

Are you getting any malf flags?

 

Great idea to get the hang of tuning before the new motor.

The issues you have are probably related to the transients that you have to tune. These are AE, DE and PE parameters. But before you can even start worrying about that, you need to get the VE and SA tables good for constant throttle.

When I began tuning, I would not make rapid movements with the throttle and surely did not go WOT. Keep doing VE learns until corrections stop. I know they say you do not need a WB to tune, but it makes it really easier. Do lots of driving for the VE learns trying to slowly vary the MAP and RPM. You vary MAP by going up or down hills.

Once you have put the time in there, start doing some 3rd gear pulls on the highway. Start slowly and adjust the AE - TPS%. This is where I started getting the SOP feel that I needed and then pulled timing out were I was getting knocks. Reading my WB, it should be at 14 at constant throttle. When in closed loop, it you should see the NB going up and down cyclically. Then, when I slowly started to do a 4th gear pull (I have a T-56), I tuned until I saw the WB dip down a bit (AE Light On - WUD). Then I compared my AFR (Commanded by EBL) to WB in the log to determine whether I was rich or lean.

There is really a lot to it, so start slow. Unfortunately, unless you get lucky with your starting bin, it ain't gonna run good out of the box. But what fun would that be??

I am on my 70th bin or so right now and still have room for improvement. Learn, Burn, change and analyze. Repeat.

One thing that I have started doing recently is make several small changed to very few parameters and burn all of them into the EBL in different banks. Then change the active bank and log. See the differences you made. Make small changes. If you get knocks, just pull less than .5 a degree.

Can you tell I'm addicted yet? Good luck and keep us posted.

We need more info - Auto/Manual ... things Ronny was asking...

EDIT
But before all of that, read this post and get your idle set. This should be done b4 anything else since it has an affect on all IAC parameters.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...en-coming.html

 

thanks for the help so far. the idle has been an issue to so that link helps a lot. it is all stock from fuel pressure to injectors with no malf flags. but i will be upgrading the throttle body to a 2 inch holley and stock 350 gm injectors with the new motor so it would help to know what to change when that time comes.

i have also heard that the 305 injectors were 40pph and 55pph so if anyone can shed some light on that it would be great

i am not sure about the blms i will double check and post.

when i do a learn it always seems to take around -10 - -12 out even after like 6 or 7 times

also i was thinking of getting a wb but not sure how to go about that. do i need a controller thing of just put in place of the nb.

thanks so much for the help.

 

Flow Rating
Application
Color Code
Part Number Markings
GM Part Number

40 PPH
305/5.0 Liter L03, Camaro & Firebird (stock)
Green/White
GM 5235279 *RPD


55 PPH
350/5.7 Liter Pickup
Orange/Black
GM 5235206 *RPD


65 PPH
350/5.7 Liter Cop Car
Yellow/Brown
???
17112412

I would not be too quick to adding the big TBI unit same day as you start motor. I would tune it with stock TBI but would not argue adding the larger injectors. In fact I personally would probably keep the injs you have and just up fuel pressure from 12 to say 18 and tune with that. remember to adjust the BPC when you do that. Once tuned to your liking you can swap to the large TBI unit with larger injectors and deal with that and the issues that come as a result.

the BLMs are displayed in WU upper R corner and update constantly. I suspect they are pegged rich at 112 or so and that is why the learns are constantly pulling fuel. Why so rich? Did you change FP unknowingly?

I chose to maintain NB control and added WB in other ext pipe. I will add the A/F from it in WB log for read only.

 

I second both of the above. You would need the controller for the WB. The controller performs function of heating up the sensor and scaling the output. I the Innovative is the cheapest, but the Zeitronix is probably the better unit seeing the problems I have had with the prior.

The learn function has a smoothing to prevent too drastic of a change. You can decrease this, I believe to get more changes (Not completely sure on this, but look it up) Just keep doing the learns and eventually it will come down. When you are learning, select VE Learn for display. You can watch were on the VE table you are. A yellow highlight shows that and when it turns green, it is learning at that point so keep the pedal constant. Once you see a bunch of corrections, stop the learn, and burn the new one in. Keep driving at the problem areas.

Edit the IAC - Idle Speed: Drive and if auto tranny IAC - Idle Speed: Park/Neut to set the commanded idle RPMs vs temperature. I have been adjusting these to help the car idle higher with the cold temps I have been getting. I found with my cam the car can idle at 775 reasonably once up to operating temp.


What is the next motor cam going to be?

 

i dont think i changed the fuel pressure. never been into the tb. as far as on the bin mayyybeeee lol. i dont know is that a possiabilty. i did mess around with the injector flow scalar and something else with the injectors. it was like 68 and i thought i had to put in the 40 since that was the rating for my injectors. but after some of the input here i take it that you dont just type in what pph injector you have somewhere? and i have to say this is the best site i have ever seen with info on sbc and thirdgen stuff

and graebz28 the next motor is a 350 with 4 valve pistons a vodoo cam with 256 dur and 454 lift. old school 041 heads with some port work, rpm intake with tb adaptor. i already have it buit so i cant wait to get the tuning down pat.

where is a good place to buy the wb setup

 

injector flow scaler I believe is set for engine size. If you are using a 305 EBL.bin should be already set correctly.

The injector size may be needed for the miles per gal calculator in WU. If it was the base pulse constant you changed that is not inj size specific but it is determine by CID-inj size-fuel pressure with a calculation.

 

EGR disabled?
EGR and CCP unplugt?

 

I may be wrong but Im sure that fast said that the truck 350 inj are 61lbhr not 55! I would have to agree with that do to my duty cycle fuel pressure and Ve tables that are based off of that. Just a heads up.

 

Originally Posted by raceman094
when i do a learn it always seems to take around -10 - -12 out even after like 6 or 7 times

Once you monitor the BLM readings you may confirm it(NB02) is is reading filthy rich. If the engine is drowning in fuel the Q is why?? One reason may be a coolant temp sensor failure. I recall when they fail it reads a cold coolant temp and delivers fuel accordingly. I would think that would trigger a CE light or a malf flag.

 

Did you read through the calibration.html that came with the ebl? Did you in fact disable the EGR and CCP.

I would get a fuel pressure gauge and verify what it actually is. This is crucial to determine the BPC. Also, as I have read several times elsewhere, you need to truly determine what injectors you have either by color code or p/n or flow testing. You cannot just guess on any of these parameters.

Also, make sure that you have constant fuel pressure throughout all rpms.

Last night on my way home, I found a parking lot and just did some rolling starts up and down the lot. Luckily, it had a slight grade. Never really did this yet, so I got lots of correction. Since I have stick, I started out in 2nd and 3rd when going down the grade to get those low rpm values learned. I probably do it a 3-4 times more or until I get 0 learns.

 

thanks for all the replys so far it is helping to shed some light which is great i been out of town this weekend but will try these few things out.

how do i disable the ccp

and where is a good place to put a fuel pressure gauge.

 

those wires have since been cleaned up and soldered! this was shot during install of the 7.4L TBI unit and FPR.