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Why wouldnt you...??

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Old Feb 5, 2009 | 01:20 PM
  #1  
boldguy's Avatar
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From: Cali
Car: 1992 Z28
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: World Class T-5 5speed manual Trans
Axle/Gears: STOCK G92 performance 3.42
Why wouldnt you...??

So originally 305 now 350, i changed the injector flow rate to 22.23 (Bosch design III by FIC) and the cylinder volume to 713.00 cc. Other than that i'm running the stock 305 bin (AXYC). Why wouldnt you multiply all values in the VE tables by 1.14754, the percent 350 is of 305??


The reason i would want to do this is because i still didn't pass smog.

I am a gross pollutor and want to be legal, and i don't remember if i was running the 19 lb or the 22 lb injector constant the first time, but the hc's at idle were 500 and this last time i was definately running the 19 lb constant and hcs were 480.

Please help me make sense of this nonsense.

Thanks.
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Old Feb 5, 2009 | 02:21 PM
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From: Fairview Heights Illinois
Car: 1986 Irocz
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.25:1
Re: Why wouldnt you...??

Originally Posted by boldguy
So originally 305 now 350, i changed the injector flow rate to 22.23 (Bosch design III by FIC) and the cylinder volume to 713.00 cc. Other than that i'm running the stock 305 bin (AXYC). Why wouldnt you multiply all values in the VE tables by 1.14754, the percent 350 is of 305??
Because it doesn't work that way, and besides multiplying by 1.14754 would just make it run richer.

Why don't you troubleshoot the problem to lower your HC's?
Start looking at your fuel trims to see if that's pointing at a problem.
Then I'd start looking for a cause of misfires. The ignition system is a common cause, though faulty injectors can also be.
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Old Feb 5, 2009 | 05:09 PM
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From: Browns Town
Car: 86 Monte SS (730,$8D,G3,AP,4K,S_V4)
Engine: 406 Hyd Roller 236/242
Transmission: 700R4 HomeBrew, 2.4K stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 Posi, 7.5 Soon to break
Re: Why wouldnt you...??

There is a chart floating around that shows the different emmisions and how they relate to the AFR.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...-emissions.jpg
Using the reports from the tests you can see what direction you need to go.
When I failed a few years back on my LG4 it was because I advanced the timing to make it run better.
reducing the timing will give more burn time and reduce HCs but has side effects in the other emmisions items.
The fuel trim is doing its job unless its topping out (or bottoming out) in the adjustment range.
Change oil, plugs, check coil and wires, new cap and rotor for sure, Check your base timing is where it should be. Drive at least 1/2 hour before going in. Be sure to do those, then see where you are at.
HTH

Last edited by JP86SS; Feb 5, 2009 at 05:17 PM.
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Old Feb 5, 2009 | 09:49 PM
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From: Corona
Car: 92 Form, 91 Z28, 89 GTA, 86 Z28
Engine: BP383 vortech, BP383, 5.7 TPI, LG4
Transmission: 4L60e, 700R4, 700R4..
Axle/Gears: 3.27, 2.73
Re: Why wouldnt you...??

With high HC for so long (and probably from misfire), the cat is probably dead as well, either burned up, or cracked and sintered and maybe partially blocking the flow. The engine is not running right, though, so fix that first - in a logical way, but don't forget that the cat might be too screwed up by now.
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Old Feb 5, 2009 | 11:28 PM
  #5  
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From: Cali
Car: 1992 Z28
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: World Class T-5 5speed manual Trans
Axle/Gears: STOCK G92 performance 3.42
Re: Why wouldnt you...??

Youo guys are quick!

Ok so here is my rebuttal.
New:
cap, rotor, plugs, (wires are 2 years old)
Cat convertors are 1.5 years old
New injectors (reman bosch design III 22#)
3 wire heated o2 (bosch 13077)
Msd coil, 6A box, harness.
Battery is about 2 years old optima red top...huh?
Ran some garunteed to pass through like on the bottle.

Is there anything i can do with the ostrich and the tunerpro rt program to remedy? Should i raise or lower the injector constant?

I will double check the base timing to be sure its up to spec but im sure they checked it thrice.



Thanks guys!
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Old Feb 6, 2009 | 01:29 AM
  #6  
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From: Corona
Car: 92 Form, 91 Z28, 89 GTA, 86 Z28
Engine: BP383 vortech, BP383, 5.7 TPI, LG4
Transmission: 4L60e, 700R4, 700R4..
Axle/Gears: 3.27, 2.73
Re: Why wouldnt you...??

New in no way means works. You've got some kind of misfire it seems. Go cylinder by cylinder looking for a weak or non-responsive one, by either disconnecting injectors (safer way, but sometimes difficult to disconnect), or pulling plug wires (loosen all at the cap and use some kind of plastic wrench preferably to lift them one by one). Probably will need to do this with the IAC disconnected (after already running - to keep RPM stable), and it helps to have the EST bypass disconnected - to keep the timing stable.

The bad cylinder(s) will show no or very little change in running sound and RPM.
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Old Feb 6, 2009 | 09:06 AM
  #7  
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From: Fairview Heights Illinois
Car: 1986 Irocz
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.25:1
Re: Why wouldnt you...??

Originally Posted by RednGold86Z
New in no way means works. You've got some kind of misfire it seems.
+1
You're having misfires.
Changing things in tunerpro isn't your best way to troubleshoot at this point.
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Old Feb 6, 2009 | 09:56 AM
  #8  
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From: Cali
Car: 1992 Z28
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: World Class T-5 5speed manual Trans
Axle/Gears: STOCK G92 performance 3.42
Re: Why wouldnt you...??

So doing this would tell me that: a cylinder that when disconnected it makes the least amount of change in the rpm, means that it is wires? (Cap, rotor, plugs? any opinions on MSD stuff?)

And doing it with the injectors, i would unplug the electrical harness right? and finding one this way would tell me that the injector is bad?

Thanks for all the input guys.
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Old Feb 6, 2009 | 12:12 PM
  #9  
305sbc's Avatar
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From: Fairview Heights Illinois
Car: 1986 Irocz
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.25:1
Re: Why wouldnt you...??

Ideally yeah.
Chances are you can track the problem by looking very closely at all your sparkplugs.
If they are all or mostly rich then you may have an injector problem or a bad O2.

You also want to eliminate any, even small exhaust leaks between the engine and the O2.
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Old Feb 8, 2009 | 07:31 PM
  #10  
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From: Cali
Car: 1992 Z28
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: World Class T-5 5speed manual Trans
Axle/Gears: STOCK G92 performance 3.42
Re: Why wouldnt you...??

So i discovered something that could be of importance. The 93 caprice 350( the one with the 193 heads) took a Delco CR43TS plug while the 92 camaro 350 took a CR45TS. I put the plugs for the camaro 350 in. What would happen if i put in the cr43ts plugs??? it is a colder plug no? and sould possibly work better with the MSD 6A??? let me know what oyu guys think about THAT!

This could be it because i did pass smog with the plugs i purchased the car with, but then again it was bone stock 350 with delco air filters in it and stick exhaust blah blah.
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Old Feb 9, 2009 | 09:02 PM
  #11  
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From: Fairview Heights Illinois
Car: 1986 Irocz
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.25:1
Re: Why wouldnt you...??

There's not enough difference in those plugs for you to notice.
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Old Feb 12, 2009 | 06:43 PM
  #12  
boldguy's Avatar
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From: Cali
Car: 1992 Z28
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: World Class T-5 5speed manual Trans
Axle/Gears: STOCK G92 performance 3.42
Re: Why wouldnt you...??

I did the misfire test today and it was in conclusive. I pulld the injectr harnesses first one by one and they all caused the same sound/drop in rpm. Then i disconnected the plug wires one by one and got electrocuted by the second one. Still each one caused the same sound none moreso than the other. I have always noticed the every once in a while bump while idling and sometimes going through a parking lot it would just stop and jerk forward now that its mentioned. I gues it is a misfire on the same cylinder every time. I noticed this even after i replaced everything... Is there anything i can look for in datamaster to see a misfire?? It is very random and i am out of ideas. compression test perhaps?


Anything is helpful. Thanks!
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Old Feb 12, 2009 | 07:24 PM
  #13  
boldguy's Avatar
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From: Cali
Car: 1992 Z28
Engine: 350 TPI
Transmission: World Class T-5 5speed manual Trans
Axle/Gears: STOCK G92 performance 3.42
Re: Why wouldnt you...??

So the datalog says on average about 8 inHg at idle, while my vaccuum gage says 24 inHg(53 cmHg)????? could this be the culprit?? This is the same MAP sensor that has been on the car for the duration of my ownership, it is not stock it is a carquest any thoughts???
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