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Help.very lean mixture in 70-85C range

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Old May 13, 2010 | 02:28 PM
  #1  
Dmity Kiev's Avatar
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From: Kiev Ukraine
Car: Firebird 91
Engine: Vortec 350 224/230cam, ported head
Transmission: TH700r4 with vette servo,hd oil pum
Axle/Gears: now 3.73 posi old 3.23 posi
Help.very lean mixture in 70-85C range

Hi there , have problems with mixture in range of 70-85C (closed loop flag is ON , rich flag is sometimes ON), its very very lean , when I push pedal O2 is show 0.010-0-0.155 and shes misfire to exhaust and try to stall. after car is warm up to 85+C everythings is great. I understand that problem is in AFR for this temperature range , but in what table i need to change it ? Im try to do this in Open loop AFR but not have any changes I use 6965 ECM and #62 mask

Have such tables as:

1 Crank Air Fuel Ratio vs Coolant temp
2 Open loop AFR vs Coolant temp
3 Opel loop AFR vs Vacuum
4 AFR at startup vs Coolant (Choke)
5 Startun AFR decay multiplier vs Coolant
6 Crank AFR multiplier vs vacuum

what of those table work when in range from cold to warm?
i think 1 , 3 , 5 right? how ecm calculate AFR in this range of temperature ?

heres my last bin. and morning and evening datalogs
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Dmityrkievbin.zip (62.2 KB, 8 views)

Last edited by Dmity Kiev; May 13, 2010 at 03:06 PM.
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Old May 13, 2010 | 10:29 PM
  #2  
funstick2's Avatar
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Re: Help.very lean mixture in 70-85C range

Originally Posted by Dmity Kiev
Hi there , have problems with mixture in range of 70-85C (closed loop flag is ON , rich flag is sometimes ON), its very very lean , when I push pedal O2 is show 0.010-0-0.155 and shes misfire to exhaust and try to stall. after car is warm up to 85+C everythings is great. I understand that problem is in AFR for this temperature range , but in what table i need to change it ? Im try to do this in Open loop AFR but not have any changes I use 6965 ECM and #62 mask

Have such tables as:

1 Crank Air Fuel Ratio vs Coolant temp
2 Open loop AFR vs Coolant temp
3 Opel loop AFR vs Vacuum
4 AFR at startup vs Coolant (Choke)
5 Startun AFR decay multiplier vs Coolant
6 Crank AFR multiplier vs vacuum

what of those table work when in range from cold to warm?
i think 1 , 3 , 5 right? how ecm calculate AFR in this range of temperature ?

heres my last bin. and morning and evening datalogs
How is the fuel trim at full warm in closed loop ?
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Old May 15, 2010 | 04:00 AM
  #3  
91L98Z28's Avatar
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Re: Help.very lean mixture in 70-85C range

if the Rich/Lean flag is toggling, then you're generating crosscounts and you should be close to a normal AFR.

in addition to checking the operating temp fuel trims (BLM/INT) as already suggested, you might consider that you might need more "pump shot" / AE (acceleration enrichment). I can't tell for sure but your post leads me to think that maybe this is only happening when you change the throttle position.
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Old May 15, 2010 | 10:53 AM
  #4  
Dmity Kiev's Avatar
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From: Kiev Ukraine
Car: Firebird 91
Engine: Vortec 350 224/230cam, ported head
Transmission: TH700r4 with vette servo,hd oil pum
Axle/Gears: now 3.73 posi old 3.23 posi
Re: Help.very lean mixture in 70-85C range

I change AE pump shot . nothing changed. this problem only from 70 to 85C. Also have new trouble: no response from engine whe try to do full throttle from idle, when i push pedal shes thinkin 3 sec with trying to stall and then start like rocket. but i have problem with TPS on Holley TB it not show more than 82-83% when blades are full open , too see 100% tps i need adjust it to 15-17% on idle , can Holley make suck tps ?
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Old May 15, 2010 | 11:01 PM
  #5  
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Re: Help.very lean mixture in 70-85C range

Originally Posted by Dmity Kiev
I change AE pump shot . nothing changed. this problem only from 70 to 85C. Also have new trouble: no response from engine whe try to do full throttle from idle, when i push pedal shes thinkin 3 sec with trying to stall and then start like rocket. but i have problem with TPS on Holley TB it not show more than 82-83% when blades are full open , too see 100% tps i need adjust it to 15-17% on idle , can Holley make suck tps ?

some of those holley TB injectors had massive issues with temperature and functioning properly.
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Old May 17, 2010 | 10:54 AM
  #6  
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Re: Help.very lean mixture in 70-85C range

no response from engine whe try to do full throttle from idle
One AE table you may want to make a change is filter tables for TPS and MAP. A SMALLER value will bring in the AE sooner, larger, and longer lasting.

Sounds like a commercial for Viagra?

Changing that filter value for me was very helpfull for 2.00 TB's.
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Old May 17, 2010 | 12:45 PM
  #7  
Dmity Kiev's Avatar
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From: Kiev Ukraine
Car: Firebird 91
Engine: Vortec 350 224/230cam, ported head
Transmission: TH700r4 with vette servo,hd oil pum
Axle/Gears: now 3.73 posi old 3.23 posi
Re: Help.very lean mixture in 70-85C range

Ronny you mean i need to change Acceleration Enrich vis TPS and MAP i need to rise it or lower ? I found one tread where Fast355 talk about rise values up to 10% ?
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Old May 17, 2010 | 01:29 PM
  #8  
Ronny's Avatar
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Re: Help.very lean mixture in 70-85C range

Maybe your Program $42 does not offer a "filter". AE event is modified in several ways in my mask as in RPM- coolant temp-and filter for TPS+MAP AE as well as generic TPS-AE and MAP-AE. There is a write up in "stickies" for AE routines as far as 7747.
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Old May 24, 2010 | 04:43 PM
  #9  
Dmity Kiev's Avatar
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 114
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From: Kiev Ukraine
Car: Firebird 91
Engine: Vortec 350 224/230cam, ported head
Transmission: TH700r4 with vette servo,hd oil pum
Axle/Gears: now 3.73 posi old 3.23 posi
Re: Help.very lean mixture in 70-85C range

Guys here some video . dont look at TPS i adjust it to 15% on idle to loook maby there some changes with full WOT . as you will see in video shes terrebly lean when temp fomr 70 to 85 and also shes stall when i try to do WOT.

also Q what BPC should be with 16psi FP and 65\75\80 injectors ? I still cant ident what injectors are in my holley 502-6 TB ?

Can be a problem in new 366 ignition control module , or in new Spark control module ? all sensors is new on the engine , exceps holley TPS when i adjust in to 2% on idle i have only 83 at WOT , thats why on video it stays 15% on idle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cf9U1itGPc maby some one have any ideos what to do in bin to solve this problems
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Old May 25, 2010 | 11:23 AM
  #10  
Ronny's Avatar
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From: wisconsin
Re: Help.very lean mixture in 70-85C range

65 at 16 BPC is 132
75 114
80 107

Visually check butterflys to confirm WOT rather than relying on 83%. I think ECU reads volts and then places at 0% for calculations. Not sure if it also does same for WOT. TPS is 0 to 4.5 V.
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