71ChevelleSS

Hey guys I did the mod to change the cylinder select error on the v6 memcal in the 7730 ecm I have and I also fully completed the Speed density swap that Joe (anethes) had made a write up on. The harness swap was a complete succes and everything works as its suppose to.

I am having a problem with the v6 memcal. Even after I ran the jumper wire from cal 56 to cal 62 or 63 cant remember off the top of my head but ran it to ground it still doesnt seem to fire and run all cylinder properly.

Has anyone else run into a very poor idle after doing this? I know I need to tune the prom and everything to make the v6 values equal to the v8's but shouldnt it idle correctly?

What other memcals do I have as an option to get? I want to get a 90-92 camaro or firebird memcal just dont have the cash for it (almost 200 bucks).

Someone please help give me some pointers here. You will be saving a nice 71 chevelle! Sorry I know I know not an f body but an a body but still. hehe.

Thanks guys let me know what I should do. I can post videos or pics whatever needed just dont know how the sound quality will be on the video.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

You don't run those pins to ground, you short them to each other.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

What are you using for a calibration (PROM)?

Grounding cylinder select on the MEMCAL only sets the hardware for an 8 cylinder.

RBob.

71ChevelleSS

I know its shorting them together but cal 63 is a ground. I did this mod to make it atleast run decent and fire all 8 cylinders correctly and get rid of code 41.

What was wierd I never got code 41 originally but it didnt run correctly. I got the ecm I have from a 88 berretta with the 2.8 multiport in it chip was original too. So I know it was a v6 chip so I did the jumper and it actually seems like it runs worse. I have a code 43 too but I have the 90 92 knock sensor I need to install I tried my 87 knock sensor with the resistor but I believe its bad so ill swap that tomorrow.

Rbob I havent got my tuning software yet but I do have TunerProRT downloaded and stock bins for both a 92 camaro and firebird with the 5.7 tpi. I need to aquire the moates burn2 and an adapter to make it so I dont have to desolder and re solder the prom.

Let me know of any information I need to put here. Thanks again Rbob I am defiantely thinking about that ebl flash setup as I have a spare 88 firebird ecm here. I also like the fact of switching between 8 banks with the switch you have. I may be a soon customer

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The biggest issue with using the V6 calibration is the spark timing. The conversion from degrees of advance to crank firing angle is wrong. I wouldn't recommend driving the vehicle until you can get a V8 calibration in there.

IIRC, the 88 berretta was also DIS. That too will put the spark timing way off.

As for using the '88 Firebird ECM with the EBL Flash, it depends upon which ECM it is. If it is the '8063 TBI ECM, then it will work. Just be sure to order it with the port mod (8-cyl).

Since you are currently running the '7730 ECM, if you can wait a bit, we are going to release an EBL Flash for it in the near future. There is a working prototype on the bench which is being used to finish porting the ECM firmware over to the P4 hardware.

RBob.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

So, you're running a V6 MEMCAL with the jumper but without using a proper PROM, just the stock V6 PROM?

That only sets the hardware side to V8, it doesn't change the calibration, you still need a PROM programmed with an $8D calibration, such as AUJP (for speed density, using the '7730).

Yes the '88 'Retta is DIS, so the spark settings will be commanding an extra 60* of advance, once ECM timing takes over for module base timing.

Hmm, interested in see how this P4 EBL is.

silvernblack

Can you enlighten me on what that means for us 730 ECM users?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

An EBL flash system for the '7730, '7749, and maybe some other P4 ECMs. 1, 2, & 3 bar MAP, dual fan control, extended VE and SA tables, all the creature comforts of the current EBL Flash plus more.

NOTE: since the '7749 is missing a quad-driver, the output capability will be restricted when using that ECM.

Eight calibration banks, flash memory on-board, full ECU & XDF files, plus doc's for it all. Eight 10-bit ADC channels, the WUD and so on.

Can even run it without a MEMCAL. On board straps for cylinder select. If no MEMCAL, then no limp mode. But what good is it anyway if the engine/injectors have been changed?! And, GM did away with limp and the RFD when they went to flash in place of EPROMs.

At this time we are looking at using several modes for ESC filter: internal w/LT1/LT4, using a P4 MEMCAL filter (removed from MEMCAL and plugged in), or an external ESC filter. Or none at all. It is optional.

The best way to look at it, is that it will be the same plus a little more over the current EBL Flash.

RBob.

71ChevelleSS

There is no way I can use the 165 prom? So either way I need to get the zif socket for ecu and get a burn2 from moates and copy a v8 bin to the prom and set it that way.

I put a 3.8 chip in it and it actually ran quite well.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

You are posting in circles. What '7165 PROM? They too use a MEMCAL.

Don't need a ZIF and I don't recommend one. Too intermittent due to the vehicle vibration. However, if you want to tune, then you need some equipment. A G1, Burn2, some flash PROMS, and an ALDL cable is the minimum.

What 3.8 chip? A MEMCAL? Again, a 3.8L is a 6-cylinder. Will the spark advance be correct?

RBob.

71ChevelleSS

I have the 165 prom from an 87 maf car I figure the tables would be close enough to tune but I may be wrong.

The g1 is the adapter so you can install and remove the eprom chips right?

The burn2 I already understand and how to connect it and use it as i already have tunerproRT.

Does moates carry the aldl cable? ill have to check I believe I seen it. Its a 3.8 tuned port injection memcal from a 91 buick gransport.

Ok someone please tell me what I need to do exactly to make this memcal work I have been running circles on this.


So far I got I need to jumper cal56 to cal 63 on the netres chip. That is correct right? ok I know I also need the proper knock sensor for the 90-92 people also say to use the 4.3 knock sensor as it has the same bore and stroke as the 5.7 so the knock frequencies in theory would be correct but I dont know if anyone has validated this.

After that I need to get a prom for the 90-92 5.7 SD setup. Problem is I cant find the memcals anywhere or there way out of reach for my funds.

Now couldnt someone make a eprom with that tune on it and I just solder it in? Would that work?

Im at a stopping point right now and a, getting ready to just buy the memcal for 300+ from gm because I am having trouble with all the info from different people here.

Im just in a hard time right now and wont be able to do that for a while so I trying to go the tuning route as it will cost the same in the end actually a little cheaper and I will be prepared for tuning already which is what I ultimately want.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

You can use the modified 3.8 MEMCAL, for the cylinder select side, the LHM/RFD side MIGHT work for you, but I can't verify that. Mostly you are worried about the cylinder select that requires the jumper to be added. I don't recall the pins off hand, but what you have stated sounds correct.

You then need to use a programmed EPROM that has a V8 calibration on it, such as AUJP, if you are using a '7730, which I believe you are.

Just jumpering the cylinder select and then trying to use the same PROM that is on that MEMCAL will get you problems, as you have seen.

The G2 is the adaptor you need, yes that allows you to use the original, or modified in this case, MEMCAL, to have that proper cylinder select, and LHM/RFD and knock filter all still intact, while then being able to use a modified bin on another EPROM, plugged into the G2 adaptor.

Yes, moates.net sells the ALDL cable, I have one and it works great for me.

71ChevelleSS

Yes I am using a 7730 ecm. Yeah I did run into problems after I jumped the pins. I figured it would run decent enough to move the car but I was wrong.

I am mainly trying to find a way around getting a 90-92 v8 sd chip as they are pretty expensive and never survive long in our yards around here.

It looks like the tuning route is the only way to go just dont have the cash at the moment and I really need to move the car from my moms house.

This is in a 71 chevelle with a WC 5speed. The motor came from a 87 gta originally but previous owner installed a real mild cam and shaved the heads .010 off the decks as well as completely replaced all the seals rings bearings guides etc etc. Im just stuck on the memcal part as thats all thats holding me back from a perfectly good running car.

I was reading on people using an external knock filter like from the 165 ecm and using it to get around using the aujp chip but I didnt find enough validated material to prove the theory.

If I go the tuning route I still have to learn everything from the ground up on that and I just dont have the time before I have to move the car.

The_Punisher454

Where are you located? I know if you were local to me here I'd offer to burn a stock aujp bin to it. I'm sure you may be able to find somebody in your area that could burn one for you. You can even burn to the current factory eprom chip already soldered to the memcal, you just remove the protective sticker and UV erase it. Not as nice and easy as a flash chip but it will work.

I know how frustrating it is to have a deadline to move a car. (15 years ago I ended up loosing a perfectly straight and rust free 69 Firebird with a Ram air 400 because I was in a tight spot and couldn't get it moved)

71ChevelleSS

Yeah it sucks man I am trying to figure it out or find someone. I can send my memcal to you and pay you for your services man if that works. I am at a desperate point and besides I have like 40 v6 memcals lol. Ill give you some of them.

I lost a 1970 buick lesabre convertible 5 years ago due to a family dispute and I can not lose my baby chevelle at any cost. The buick there were only 2438 convertibles ever made in 70. I got the car for 600 bucks sitting in a yatrd for 28 years. It didnt have hardly any rust no cancer only some surface. I changed all the filter plugs wires and put in a hei dizzy as well as new oil and she fired right up no smoke nothing at all. the car was white with red interior and 100% original and complete only things missing were the top (fabric) and hydraulic rams for the top. Original buick ralleys and everything. Less then a 1000 in existence now.

But whatever i can do to work something out from my sand box man let me know,

CHCKLS

Sorry to bring this back up, but I am looking for a guide / how to on what exactly needs to be done with the V6 memcal to use in a '730 ECM V8 application.

Thanks!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Uh, everything. The PROM has the wrong calibration, the CALPAK resisters have the wrong limp mode calibration, and the knock filter has the wrong calibration.

Can tie pin 56 to ground and get the injector firing rate correct. Then use a G2 and a proper PROM to get the calibration correct (or close). The knock filter will work to some degree, but won't be tuned to your engine.

Think EBL P4 and side step the lack of available V8 MEMCALs...

RBob.

CHCKLS

I'm sorry.

I should of been more clear.

First post in this thread 71ChevelleSS talks about a jumper wire:

"I am having a problem with the v6 memcal. Even after I ran the jumper wire from cal 56 to cal 62 or 63 cant remember off the top of my head but ran it to ground it still doesnt seem to fire and run all cylinder properly."

Where can I find this information?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

It is what 71ChevelleSS said. He jumpered pin 56 to ground which put the ECM hardware into 8-cyl MPFI mode.

But without changing the PROM (calibration), the engine still didn't run right. 6-cylinder versus 8-cylinder, 120* versus 90*. ECM uses the cylinder count in the calibration to covert *'s of spark timing to a time based value.

The crank rod throw angles are different between a 6-cyl and an 8-cyl.

For a pic of the MEMCAL see the sticky's on the DFI & ECM board here on TGO.

RBob.

CHCKLS

I'm not asking about programming.

I am asking about jumping pin 56 to ground... that's it? What about pin 62 or 63 that he mentioned earlier?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Pin 62 is a ground (pin 63 is not). So you can tie pin 56 & 62 together to set the ECM hardware for 8-cyl MPFI mode.

RBob.

91zl98

What v6 memcals does this work with 3.1 ,3.8 and 3.4 engine memcals from what ecms ?

92 RS Invader

iTrader: (1)

Why would you half doo doo the memcal? If your gonna go through all the trouble of buying a ALDL cable, break your head on VE and SA tables or whatever it's called, just save up and buy a oem memcal or reprogrammed memcal? It's that easy. I'm not too knowledgeable about MemCals, ecms, or the bins that are associated with the EPROM. But why do something confusing if you can just geetter dun correctly?
But it's your car. I'd preferably just buy a stock memcal rather than spends hundreds of dollars on advanced equipment that RBob sells. If you wanna save the trouble, just go with a carb'd turn key engine from summit racing. You can achieve WAY more hp that way instead of buying a pricey unit such as the one RBob sells.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

If this is for a '91 TPI set up, a MEMCAL from a FWD 2.8l or 3.1l engine are readily available. They too ran the '7730 ECM, same as a '90-'92 f-body TPI set up.

RBob.

91zl98

Thank you rbob, I just ordered a burner from moates.net last night and will be finishing my build of my 383 stroker soon. I was told by another member here That his program would self correct over time. Is that even possible. I figured I could make a few of the v6 converted memcals cheaper than I could buy one for and be left with a burner. If it gives me trouble I found a place called dynamic efi they have a somewhat self learning computer. Im confused when the utility guy told me I have to install a 3.9K ohm resister to get my knock sensor to work but he did not tell me were to install it. He also said he turns off the knock sensor. The last thing I want is to have a knock and not have the timing retard. Any differences if I change a 3.1 memcal or a 2.8L bye jumpering the memcal and soldering in a flash eprom. Thank you for any insight.

91zl98

I went through the memcals I have and am not sure what came from what ecm is there any way too tell and too tell if any of these can be used for this modification. The information on them are. aswa 1798 , azkj 9579, bcay 1299 , bfad 0127 , bfau 0172

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Not sure why you would need the 3.9K resistor. As long as you are using a '90-'92 TPI knock sensor, it will be the correct resistance.

You can leave the filter in place. If you end up with too much false knock can disable the retard in the calibration. These are '7730 MEMCALs:

aswa 2.8l
bfad 3.1l
bfau 3.1l

RBob.

91zl98

Thank you so so much should I toss the azkj and the bcay since there are not identifiable ?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

They were identified, it is just that they aren't for the '7730 ECM. So I left them out of the possible choices.

azkj: 3.8l, ECM #16141470
bcay: 3.3l, ECM #1228706

The '8706 ECM is similar to the '7730, so that MEMCAL may also work. Don't know about the 3.8l ECM, it may even be a PCM.

RBob.

91zl98

Thank you again for the wealth of information. I just purchased Tuner pro v5 today and have been doing some studying up on tuning. I also downloaded the same .bin I have in the car now aujp. Sorry If I get the terminology in correct but if I want to disable the knock sensor this would be called a flag. The flag for code 43 if unset would disable the knock sensor knock counts and knock retard function. It looks like it is at 24B in the $8D mask. Stock it is set to 7f and I need to change it too 60 ? It look like changing the bits at this address will affect other code and error function. Let me know I I need to ask this in another thread. I cant wait to get my burn 2 and learn to burn stuff. might be a real challenge on a narrow band sensor but I would like to make progress on my car and funds are low now.

utilityguy2

iTrader: (1)

I'm sorry you didn't get anything from the many PMs we exchanged. I did not say you needed a 3.9k ohm resistor. I said you need a 3.9k ohm knock sensor which is for a 5.7L engine. I also told you that it would not be very effective on the 383 you are building. I also said going with RBobs EFI was a great choice. I gave you lots of the same information that RBob has so I am sorry mine was not informative. I'm all for helping people learn and understand prom programming but it may not be for everyone and it does take a lot of time to learn.

91zl98

Is that the correct change for the address for the knock. Your message was not too informative how does the program self learn. Form my understanding I need too datalog and correct my ve tables ?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

To disable knock retard in $8D, set both the knock enable CTS threshold and the differential CTS threshold high (150* C):

RBob.

91zl98

wow, Thank you so much for the information.
I changed 0x20C from 30 to FF
0x20D from 35 to FF

Im learning so much already what a great forum. I have found several articles with wealth of information on the net as well from the late Grumpy, bruce plecan.

91zl98

Thank you again, Your instructions were super easy to follow and this works great in my 350