You wouldn't know what it is exactly without a wide band. Definitely worth getting though as once you have that you can log AFR in EBL, do VE learns directly from the wide band, and it really helps to tune the AE and PE fuel.

 

B4 I added the WB I used winAldl to achieve a decent BLM in as many cells as i could. I was concerned of too lean at WOT so I recall I added fuel there as .bin was a 350 truck. Underlying tune was prob 90% accurrate. VE calls at higher rpm and higher map proved to be rich on #'s as evidenced on dyno. 12.0/1. So Wb was not necessary in that example. I cant recall if I reduced VE after dyno. I should have.

 

ok so I am going through the datalog, my highest knock count was at 3200 and 3600 RPM's at 100, so 100 means full throttle right? does the computer actually control the timing at fuel throttle? I am not sure what those top #'s mean..any help would be apreciated

 

The 100 you are seeing is probably the manifold pressure which is measured by the MAP sensor in kilopascals. 100 kilopascals is very close to one atmosphere of pressure. The computer is always controlling the timing so assuming that the AFR is good you probably want to pull a couple degrees from those cells and the ones near them on the timing map and retest.

 

ok that is what I thought about it being MAP. So yeah I already pulled timing out of those spots and will retest. I am basically going to duplicate that throught the entire higher RPM band. Thanks for your help.

 

FUEL FUEL FUEL...If you are getting knock counts with that mild spark advance table, you are either not hitting PE, do not have enough PE fuel, or just have a wrong VE table and injector sizing. 310 HP seems low for your build, considering a 305 vortec headed L03 with the stock cam and 1.6:1 rockers can make that.

 

Is the aluminum headed LT1 table mild? It looked a ton more aggressive than the L05 TBI spark table.

Is thier a PE in the stock L05 tune? I havnt messed with anything in that area yet.

 

The LT1 table is mild for a under 10:1 aluminum headed small block. Even the LT1 gains power with a little more timing and leaner fuel mixture.

As for the PE, in typical emissions compliance it is delayed in the stock tune to come in as late as possible and even has an additional delay once the threshold is met. In a performance application, especially with a light car and no towing, one should lower the TPS values to enter PE down to around 35% throttle and flatten the commanded air/fuel ratio to 12:1 for initial tuning. You can tweak the PE values once you get a wideband, but better same than sorry initially.

 

oh ok. so no wideband no PE tuning..

Those performer centerbolt heads, the flow rating is not much more than a stock l05 head. I doubt this engine is making 1 hp per cubic inch, so I figured around 300 hp is where she is at. which should be able to run my goal of a 13.5x-13.99. Being that I was at 14.23 with no tune, with iron heads, no ebl etc...

 

Not sure where you got your flow numbers, but they flow as well as vortec heads and vortec heads are more than capable of making 300 hp with a very mild cam.

Flow Numbers as tested by Edelbrock's SuperFlo SF-1020 flow bench @ 28" H2O #60879
Valve Lift .100" .200" .300" .400" .500" .600" .700"
Intake 64 122 177 217 229 232 -
Exhaust 54 96 124 147 166 175

 

these heads are the 60859 I will have to check into the flow #'s on them. So in your opinion fast this engine is capable of 1 HP per cubic inch?

 

60859 and 60879 are the SAME cylinder head with the exception of having a different angle on the 2 bolts around what would be the exhaust crossover. The ports, valves, chamber, etc are exactly the same.

In my opinon in a healthy setup it can realistically make 1 hp per cubic inch.

 

Sweet that is awesome. So I am under injected. I will have to due the injector duty cycle equation and see if they can perform under what pressure. I just know running too much fuel pressure without a VAFR just keeps the car too rich at idle and that is what i was trying to avoid. But I will tune as is for now and keep an eye open for some 80# injectors. It's nice to know thier is possibly more in it then I will get out of it at this point and time.

 

The WUD calculates and displays the current injector duty cycle. IT is also in the analysis data. Once it is above 85% it is time for more injector flow. That is as long as the AFR is in the ballpark at that point.

The biggest issue with TBI is lack of injector flow. Stock, GM barely provided enough injector. A little more power and one really needs to up the flow.

RBob.

 

Dont be too quick to increase injector size. Try to up FP and see how yours respond. I think others have run them up to 35 lbs. VAFPR is desirable. In logs keep an eye on the pulse width at idle. If you use the OL idle option then you can pull fuel in those cells it idles in in VE table.

 

Okay. Thank's guy's. I don't remember what the WUD displayed for my injector duty I will have to check that.

The car runs a ton smoother and at startup it doesnt run poorly like it did with the stock l05 tune. So I am right path with where I am at. But getting maximum HP would be nice.

 

I checked the WUd. I am assuming the %DC is injector duty cycle? I saw it hit the low 80's so I am right there, if I increase fuel pressure that will push the injector duty even farther right?

 

Increasing the fuel pressure will lower the injector DC%. Be sure to change the BPC vs VAC table to match the increased flow.

RBob.

 

Oh it will? that is good. I guess I will bump it up a few more PSI and re-do that

 

If you are <85% that is were you want to be. Too high of FP will cause a rich idle.

 

Lol I can't reply fast enough.

And if you have 85%dc your fine

At idle you can pull fuel to lean out the mixture in the ve table. Had that problem as well.

 

That is where I am going lowering the VE down low will take out fuel leaning it out some. So I technical can raise my fuel pressure up, then use the VE to lower it back down at idle to where I dont get too rich of an idle...very cool. I love this product I just don't like doing anything til I know for sure I am good.

 

so as far as VE, lower numbers at low speed and higher numbers at high speed, so the higher numbers increase the amount of fuel, and the low numbers decrease it? I noticed when I drove and did some VE learn's. I was getting corrections always subtracting

 

yes larger numbers=more fuel. But keep in mind NB will always provide feedback to place at stoich assuming the range of BLM is within tolerence(112-160).

 

there goes the foreign language again. BLM?

 

BLM is the value for a cell on fueling change. >128 it is adding fuel < 128 it is removing fuel. BLM is long term changes occuring as a result of INT changes. INT is the short term adjust. both are on a 128 + - scale.

 

Yessir.

Block lean multiplier is long term fuel curve in relation to the INT(i think)

INT being the short term fuel curve.

Shoot for 128 on both. If your running say 131 at a steady cruise at say 2k RPMs, you know your running slightly lean, nothing crazy. You can add fuel at that RPM/kPA in the ve table and see if it helps.

As for the spark, looks like your getting it closer to where it needs to be, just remember, wherever your getting knock, retard timing, add fuel and go from there. Dont settle for any knock.

sounds like your doing well. And look at Rbobs tt-1 wideband, grabbed mine, works great. was a pain to install though but i think that was just on my part lol

 

Yeah I am getting the trick of it. just a lot of information to learn. I wont be going wideband for now. I am kind of at my ceiling putting money into the car performance wise. Just doing neccesities. I'll get her dialed in someday

 

slowly getting there getting the knock counts gone...at a 20 mph roll i can floor the gas and break the tires lose and go sideways.....couldnt do that before...

When my car is cold though. It runs pretty shitty. but as soon as she gets slightly warm runs good. Has no problem starting or anything. Is thier some setting to adjust cold start numbers or something?

 

For the cold running tweak this table:

Open Loop - AFR Multiplier vs CTS

Note that a negative number makes the AFR richer. And the more negative the richer it is.

It also sounds like you are talking about right after it starts up, in this case there is after-start (choke) fuel and SA being added.

Choke - AFR
SA - Startup Choke

The choke AFR is a subtraction from the desired AFR (makes it richer), and decays out over time. A few minutes on a cold start, and a few seconds on a hot start.

The choke SA is an adder and again decays out over time.

RBob.

 

ok so I am pretty sure I am overfueled at this point and time. When cold. it starts fine, idle a little rough. I take off down the road and anything over 1/4-1/5 throttle and the car starts sputtering and not going. I figure one of these will take care of that. Unless its a VE problem, but should not be?

 

All VE Table tuning is to be done on a warmed up engine.

RBob.

 

VE learn's you mean? Don't start the VE learn from a cold engine. I think I did that on a couple of the learn's. I dont remember seeing it saying had to be a hot engine, but I read so much info. But I also did hot VE learns and if I do more on a hot engine it will recompensate the values correct?

 

I bet you are too lean. I would make small steps adding fuel per the table RBob referred to. Overly rich on cold start car will run but waste fuel. If too much fuel on crank will foul a plug. Coolant modifier is for a running engine post choke which i believe is about 2 seconds.

During that cold running you refer to watch the 02 values are the < or> .450mV? Should be way over .450 maybe .80 or .90.

make sure you are not refering to AE issues. I am refering to not AE running.

Learn does not occur till CL. I start my datalog B4 I start car. you wont see BLM changes or Learn till over 155dF.