7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
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7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
This forum is a wealth of knowledge I've been reading over the last couple weeks. I have some noOB questions that I can't seem to find an answer as this ECM and mask doesn't seem very popular. It's a bummer Grumpy is gone.
My main questions are:
1. in the SA tables, is the "Initial Spark Advance" constant added into that table?
2. When datalogging with TPRT, does the datalogged value included the Initial SA?
3. What happens inbetween RPM values? If your SA table is 1600 and 2000, what happens when you're at 1800 rpm? Does the processor "average" out the timing values in those cells?
Reason I ask is because when I datalog my truck, I can't correspond all the value points on the tables to the Correct SA?
For example, when coming to a rolling 10mph stop TPS closed, SA says 16* at 33Kpa & 1000rpm. My SA table is 20* at 30Kpa, 1000rpm?
At some times during the datalog I can pick a cell and confirm I was in that cell at that time. Ok, I was confident with that. But other times as the example above I just get lossed with the SA table.
Thanks for any quick help you can give me,
My main questions are:
1. in the SA tables, is the "Initial Spark Advance" constant added into that table?
2. When datalogging with TPRT, does the datalogged value included the Initial SA?
3. What happens inbetween RPM values? If your SA table is 1600 and 2000, what happens when you're at 1800 rpm? Does the processor "average" out the timing values in those cells?
Reason I ask is because when I datalog my truck, I can't correspond all the value points on the tables to the Correct SA?
For example, when coming to a rolling 10mph stop TPS closed, SA says 16* at 33Kpa & 1000rpm. My SA table is 20* at 30Kpa, 1000rpm?
At some times during the datalog I can pick a cell and confirm I was in that cell at that time. Ok, I was confident with that. But other times as the example above I just get lossed with the SA table.
Thanks for any quick help you can give me,
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
For questions 1 & 3 see the Tuning Guide Book sticky, Chapter 5, 8063/7747/8746 ECM, SA Logic thread.
For question 2 need to check the data stream definition file. Sometimes it does, but then skips knock retard. Other times it doesn't so need to add it in.
RBob.
For question 2 need to check the data stream definition file. Sometimes it does, but then skips knock retard. Other times it doesn't so need to add it in.
RBob.
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Sounds like the 85.xdf is fairly limitied compared to other definitions.
Sorry for being an idiot.
Ryan
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
RBob,
Answer to questin 2, the definition file Equation is this:
X * 0.351563 + 0.000000
So is this saying Initial in NOT added to the SA table?
Answer to number 1 & 3: (INITIAL IS SUBRACTED, VALUES ARE INTERPOLATED).
1) A look up is done on the Main SA table, the value retrieved
is based on the current rpm and map values. Call this Total
Spark Advance, or TSA for now.
2) The Slope, if any, is calculated and added to the TSA. NO TABLE ON MY PCM
3) A look up is done on the Coolant Compensation table using
the current engine temp and manifold vacuum. Add this to TSA. NO TABLE ON MY PCM
|4) (adjust for any egr spark, SA is added if egr is active). EGR DISABLED ON MY PCM
| (a lag filter calculation is done here also, but appears
| to be egr related only. The lag filter allows for the smooth
| change of SA whenever the EGR is enabled/disabled).
5) Add in any PE spark to TSA. Calc'd in a separate routine. CHECK
6) Add in any aldl/closed loop spark, to TSA. NO TABLE ON MY PCM
7) Add in any Start-up Spark, to TSA. CHECK
8) Add in any Hi-way Spark, to TSA. NO TABLE ON MY PCM
9) Subtract the Warm Bias spark value, from TSA. I ONLY HAVE MAIN SPARK BIAS AT 0*
10) Subtract the Cold Bias spark value, from TSA. I ONLY HAVE MAIN SPARK BIAS AT 0*
11) Subtract the Initial spark value, from TSA. INITIAL AT 4*
12) At this point, the TSA value is tested against
the Max Allowed Spark Value. If it is greater, it
will be set to the maximum allowed SA value.
13) Subtract any Burst Knock, from TSA.
13) Subtract any Knock Retard, from TSA.
14) The TSA value is tested against the Minimum
Allowed Spark, and adjusted to this minimum value
if required.
15) A Spark Latency correction is made and the end
value is sent to counters in the ecm. An output from
the counters control when the distributor will spark,
relative to the incoming distributor pulse.
ANSWER TO QUESTION #3
| New section describing how loookups are done into 3D tables:
It's a 3-way, 16-point interpolation between the table values.
Think of the point of 53kpa map & 1700 rpm as being someplace inside
of a box. The four corners of that box, are the four table values
that surround the defined point. The distance from that point, to each
of the four walls is estimated, with the final result based on those
four values.
Works something like this...
Part of main SA table:
map> 50 60
rpm
1600 20 24
1800 22 26
If the map is 53 and the rpm is 1700, first lookup gets the 20 & 24
degree values @ 1600 rpm, and interpolates between them. The difference
between these two are divided into 16 points:
24deg - 20deg = 4deg, 4deg / 16points = .25 deg per point
60map - 50map = 10map, 10map / 16points = .625 kpa per point.
53 map @ 1600rpm => 20deg + (3map / .625) * .25 = 21.2 deg.
So, 21.2 deg is the 16 point interpolation of 53 map @ 1600 rpm.
(Note: On a 2D table, we would be done, and this value returned).
The 3D lookup, however, calls the 2D routine a total of three
times. In this example, the first call we already completed.
The routine then advances a full row to interpolate between the
22 deg and 26 deg values found at 1800rpm.
So, using the same math as above, 23.2 deg is the 16 point
interpolation of 53 map @ 1800 rpm.
The third and final interp. is done between the answers of the
first two lookups: 21.2 deg & 23.2 degrees (@ 1600 & 1800 rpm).
The rpm is divided into 16 points the same. For this example,
it's right in the middle of table values 1600rpm and 1800rpm,
with 1700 actual.
So, 21.2 deg & 23.2 deg => 22.2 deg as the actual returned,
looked up finalized interpolated value to be used.
/* ------------------------------------- */
/* ------------------------------------- */
--
Answer to questin 2, the definition file Equation is this:
X * 0.351563 + 0.000000
So is this saying Initial in NOT added to the SA table?
Answer to number 1 & 3: (INITIAL IS SUBRACTED, VALUES ARE INTERPOLATED).
1) A look up is done on the Main SA table, the value retrieved
is based on the current rpm and map values. Call this Total
Spark Advance, or TSA for now.
2) The Slope, if any, is calculated and added to the TSA. NO TABLE ON MY PCM
3) A look up is done on the Coolant Compensation table using
the current engine temp and manifold vacuum. Add this to TSA. NO TABLE ON MY PCM
|4) (adjust for any egr spark, SA is added if egr is active). EGR DISABLED ON MY PCM
| (a lag filter calculation is done here also, but appears
| to be egr related only. The lag filter allows for the smooth
| change of SA whenever the EGR is enabled/disabled).
5) Add in any PE spark to TSA. Calc'd in a separate routine. CHECK
6) Add in any aldl/closed loop spark, to TSA. NO TABLE ON MY PCM
7) Add in any Start-up Spark, to TSA. CHECK
8) Add in any Hi-way Spark, to TSA. NO TABLE ON MY PCM
9) Subtract the Warm Bias spark value, from TSA. I ONLY HAVE MAIN SPARK BIAS AT 0*
10) Subtract the Cold Bias spark value, from TSA. I ONLY HAVE MAIN SPARK BIAS AT 0*
11) Subtract the Initial spark value, from TSA. INITIAL AT 4*
12) At this point, the TSA value is tested against
the Max Allowed Spark Value. If it is greater, it
will be set to the maximum allowed SA value.
13) Subtract any Burst Knock, from TSA.
13) Subtract any Knock Retard, from TSA.
14) The TSA value is tested against the Minimum
Allowed Spark, and adjusted to this minimum value
if required.
15) A Spark Latency correction is made and the end
value is sent to counters in the ecm. An output from
the counters control when the distributor will spark,
relative to the incoming distributor pulse.
ANSWER TO QUESTION #3
| New section describing how loookups are done into 3D tables:
It's a 3-way, 16-point interpolation between the table values.
Think of the point of 53kpa map & 1700 rpm as being someplace inside
of a box. The four corners of that box, are the four table values
that surround the defined point. The distance from that point, to each
of the four walls is estimated, with the final result based on those
four values.
Works something like this...
Part of main SA table:
map> 50 60
rpm
1600 20 24
1800 22 26
If the map is 53 and the rpm is 1700, first lookup gets the 20 & 24
degree values @ 1600 rpm, and interpolates between them. The difference
between these two are divided into 16 points:
24deg - 20deg = 4deg, 4deg / 16points = .25 deg per point
60map - 50map = 10map, 10map / 16points = .625 kpa per point.
53 map @ 1600rpm => 20deg + (3map / .625) * .25 = 21.2 deg.
So, 21.2 deg is the 16 point interpolation of 53 map @ 1600 rpm.
(Note: On a 2D table, we would be done, and this value returned).
The 3D lookup, however, calls the 2D routine a total of three
times. In this example, the first call we already completed.
The routine then advances a full row to interpolate between the
22 deg and 26 deg values found at 1800rpm.
So, using the same math as above, 23.2 deg is the 16 point
interpolation of 53 map @ 1800 rpm.
The third and final interp. is done between the answers of the
first two lookups: 21.2 deg & 23.2 degrees (@ 1600 & 1800 rpm).
The rpm is divided into 16 points the same. For this example,
it's right in the middle of table values 1600rpm and 1800rpm,
with 1700 actual.
So, 21.2 deg & 23.2 deg => 22.2 deg as the actual returned,
looked up finalized interpolated value to be used.
/* ------------------------------------- */
/* ------------------------------------- */
--
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
The definition equation does not indicate anything about what other values could affect that specific displyed value. All the equation does is take the hex vale that is spit out of the ALDL port and display it as something that makes sense to use humans.
Anything that will affect the total SA, would be an internal calculation within the ECM itself.
In most cases the initial spark advance is removed from the main SA table in the equation, but there are other parameters that could also effect it.
The base mechanical timing should match what initial spark advance is in the bin.
Anything that will affect the total SA, would be an internal calculation within the ECM itself.
In most cases the initial spark advance is removed from the main SA table in the equation, but there are other parameters that could also effect it.
The base mechanical timing should match what initial spark advance is in the bin.
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Car: 1993 K3500
Engine: 454
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
The definition equation does not indicate anything about what other values could affect that specific displyed value. All the equation does is take the hex vale that is spit out of the ALDL port and display it as something that makes sense to use humans.
Anything that will affect the total SA, would be an internal calculation within the ECM itself.
In most cases the initial spark advance is removed from the main SA table in the equation, but there are other parameters that could also effect it.
The base mechanical timing should match what initial spark advance is in the bin.
Anything that will affect the total SA, would be an internal calculation within the ECM itself.
In most cases the initial spark advance is removed from the main SA table in the equation, but there are other parameters that could also effect it.
The base mechanical timing should match what initial spark advance is in the bin.
I've double and triple checked the base timing at 4* and it's set in the bin at this also.
I'm just trying to figure out why the numbers from the datalog seem so off compared to what's in the SA table? I know I'm not in PE so there should be any additional SA. Coolant compensation at 88*C is set at 0* SA. EGR is off and the EGR spark advance table has been set to 0* SA. All the other tables are for startup and coolant compensation bias shouldn't have anything to do with accellerating when up to temp? It seem's as though at idle the displayed value is lower than the SA table, and at cruise the displayed value is higher than the SA table?
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
If your timing is set to 4 degrees with timing bypass wire disconnected it also needs to be changed in bin file for Initial Base Timing. These 2 have to match as to not exceed total timing capibilities.
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Mark, there is no need to change any equation due to a change in base timing.
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
This table exits:
And it has a bias value for it.
I checked the ALDL stream for the best SA value to use. The SA value in RAM locations L1080 & L0181 is the final SA as commanded at the distributor. As such will need to add the Initial SA back in to get the at-crank spark timing.
There is some discrepancy between the hac and the data stream definition file, but it appears to be in the 43rd to 45th byte range. Look for the values $4180 & $4181 in the ALDL table of the BIN. Then count the bytes from the beginning of the table to get the proper offset into the table.
RBob.
3) A look up is done on the Coolant Compensation table using
the current engine temp and manifold vacuum. Add this to TSA. NO TABLE ON MY PCM
the current engine temp and manifold vacuum. Add this to TSA. NO TABLE ON MY PCM
I checked the ALDL stream for the best SA value to use. The SA value in RAM locations L1080 & L0181 is the final SA as commanded at the distributor. As such will need to add the Initial SA back in to get the at-crank spark timing.
There is some discrepancy between the hac and the data stream definition file, but it appears to be in the 43rd to 45th byte range. Look for the values $4180 & $4181 in the ALDL table of the BIN. Then count the bytes from the beginning of the table to get the proper offset into the table.
RBob.
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
This is what RBob is refering to.
The ADX file is set to show spark advance on the first set, 43 and 44. Relitive to TDC would need ADX equation changed from 0.0 to 4.0 if distributor is at 4.0
I'm not sure what second set, 44 and 45 is for and not in ADX I have.
I also found on my PC another XDF file which is 96.7kb and other is 76.1 kb and added it to the $85 Information thread started by Six Shooter.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-85
It has more work done to it. I don't have time now but what I have done with multiple XDF files before is go through them and combine all paremters so we end up with one that is more complete. Hope it helps you find what you need.
Code:
43 SAP SPARK ADVANCE REL TO TDC (MSB)
44 SAP+1 SPARK ADVANCE REL TO TDC (LSB)
Double byte value in 2's complement representation
If Bit 7 of MSB = 0 then result is positive
value = (MSB*256 + LSB)
If Bit 7 of MSB = 1 then result is negative
value = 65536 - (MSB*256 + LSB)
DEGREES = value * 90/256
45 SAREFFNL SPARK ADVANCE REL TO REFERENCE PULSES (MSB)
46 SAREFFNL+1 SPARK ADVANCE REL TO REFERENCE PULSES (LSB)
Double byte value in 2's complement representation
If Bit 7 of MSB = 0 then result is positive
value = (MSB*256 + LSB)
If Bit 7 of MSB = 1 then result is negative
value = 65536 - (MSB*256 + LSB)
DEGREES = value * 90/256 I'm not sure what second set, 44 and 45 is for and not in ADX I have.
I also found on my PC another XDF file which is 96.7kb and other is 76.1 kb and added it to the $85 Information thread started by Six Shooter.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-85
It has more work done to it. I don't have time now but what I have done with multiple XDF files before is go through them and combine all paremters so we end up with one that is more complete. Hope it helps you find what you need.
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
This is the value to use:
Then add the Initial SA to it. It will be the at-crank timing.
The value prior to that one in the ALDL stream is a working location, which means it changes along the way, and does not include any spark retard from knock.
RBob.
Code:
45 SAREFFNL SPARK ADVANCE REL TO REFERENCE PULSES (MSB)
46 SAREFFNL+1 SPARK ADVANCE REL TO REFERENCE PULSES (LSB)
Double byte value in 2's complement representation
If Bit 7 of MSB = 0 then result is positive
value = (MSB*256 + LSB)
If Bit 7 of MSB = 1 then result is negative
value = 65536 - (MSB*256 + LSB)
DEGREES = value * 90/256 The value prior to that one in the ALDL stream is a working location, which means it changes along the way, and does not include any spark retard from knock.
RBob.
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Odd, I've never needed to add any offset to an ADX for TDC SA, and have had it match.
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
RBob.
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Well I added the extra spark to ADX for you and added some monitors and dashboards. You will have to right click on each gauge and put there what you want.
You will also have to change the 0.000 in conversion to your 4.000
But why can't I upload a zip file here today?
EDIT: One more try with another zip program, it includes the new ADX and both XDF I have.
EDIT 2: Removed files, new ones below.
You will also have to change the 0.000 in conversion to your 4.000
But why can't I upload a zip file here today?
EDIT: One more try with another zip program, it includes the new ADX and both XDF I have.
EDIT 2: Removed files, new ones below.
Last edited by EagleMark; Apr 7, 2012 at 05:59 PM.
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Wow, you guys are great! I was hoping you all would chime in as I've been reading your posts for the last couple weeks.
I want you to know that most of your posts are significantly over my head. If you want me to turn a wrench..........not a problem. This computer stuff is just something I've never studied and it's hard for me to grasp.
As far as what I need to do EagleMark, you want me to download your zip file and use the 96KB .xdf and the new 97Kb .adx files? And then add 4. to the .adx unless its done already.
In my current adx I've already made some cool dashboards.
The only BANC.bin I found was on the old parent directory in http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/bin/
thank you,
Ryan
I want you to know that most of your posts are significantly over my head. If you want me to turn a wrench..........not a problem. This computer stuff is just something I've never studied and it's hard for me to grasp.
As far as what I need to do EagleMark, you want me to download your zip file and use the 96KB .xdf and the new 97Kb .adx files? And then add 4. to the .adx unless its done already.
In my current adx I've already made some cool dashboards.
The only BANC.bin I found was on the old parent directory in http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/bin/
thank you,
Ryan
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Thank RBob because without him we'd all be screwed! I just try and do small work so he can help with real problems.
There are 2 XDF files, one is larger so it probably has more paremeters defined from hack, you can open 2 TunerPros with an XDF in each and copy the paremeter from one to another to make one more complete, save with new name and I will put it in the $85 Info Thread. Open TunerPro and go to Tools Advanced new instance TunerPro. I usually do these when I have time but no time right now. It's not hard.
For the ADX file when loaded in TunerPro click the 2 gears Icon or Acqusition, Edit Definition and a window will open, click on values and find the new
"Spark Advance Actual *Read Me!*"
and click on it, then at bottom you will see a conversion tab, click on it, and you will see, Set, click on it and change the 0.000 to whatever your timing is set to like 4.000
If you want to see where your timing is in XDF/Bin while data logging or playing back recorded file then set up Data Tracing.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...unerPro-How-To!
There are 2 XDF files, one is larger so it probably has more paremeters defined from hack, you can open 2 TunerPros with an XDF in each and copy the paremeter from one to another to make one more complete, save with new name and I will put it in the $85 Info Thread. Open TunerPro and go to Tools Advanced new instance TunerPro. I usually do these when I have time but no time right now. It's not hard.
For the ADX file when loaded in TunerPro click the 2 gears Icon or Acqusition, Edit Definition and a window will open, click on values and find the new
"Spark Advance Actual *Read Me!*"
and click on it, then at bottom you will see a conversion tab, click on it, and you will see, Set, click on it and change the 0.000 to whatever your timing is set to like 4.000
If you want to see where your timing is in XDF/Bin while data logging or playing back recorded file then set up Data Tracing.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...unerPro-How-To!
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Ok thanks. Let me try to get this all worked out.
I opened the new .xdf you gave me and the VE vs rpm/map table is all 0.00 for every cell. so there's obviously something wrong with that code or whatever.
It does have alot more tables and constants though.
Boy this engine must not suck
LOL
I opened the new .xdf you gave me and the VE vs rpm/map table is all 0.00 for every cell. so there's obviously something wrong with that code or whatever.
It does have alot more tables and constants though.
Boy this engine must not suck
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Well if you have your bin loaded it should not unless it's another table.
I don't know where it came from or correct so check with one you have! It may have been miss titled?
I don't know where it came from or correct so check with one you have! It may have been miss titled?
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
The new .xdf has a table called Main Fuel (VE%) vs. RPM & MAP with a hex address of 0x86E.
The original 85.xdf I've been using has a table called Volumetric Efficiency Vs. RPM Vs. Load with a hex haddress of 0x3AA
The original one works. Should I just change the address and see if it works? (LOL I'm scared of messing it up) hahahaha
Ryan
The original 85.xdf I've been using has a table called Volumetric Efficiency Vs. RPM Vs. Load with a hex haddress of 0x3AA
The original one works. Should I just change the address and see if it works? (LOL I'm scared of messing it up) hahahaha
Ryan
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
The new table also has more rows and columns which is nice. splits the VE above 50 to 55,60,65,70,75 map... ect. and has increased engine speed out to 6400 rpm.
The old .xdf just has 50,60,70,80 map....and out to 4400 rpm
Edit: new VE table is definitely different with the exception of the first column, first row. Everything else is very different.
The old .xdf just has 50,60,70,80 map....and out to 4400 rpm
Edit: new VE table is definitely different with the exception of the first column, first row. Everything else is very different.
Last edited by chevmasta; Apr 7, 2012 at 03:00 PM.
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
0x3AA is the correct starting address for the main VE table.
The load columns should be 25, 30, 25, 45, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100.
The load columns should be 25, 30, 25, 45, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100.
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Yup, I found it and fixed it. Your lucky it started to rain here so I am going through these 2 files to make one... stay tuned... Ha!
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From: West Richland, WA
Car: 1993 K3500
Engine: 454
Transmission: 4L80
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
I think I have merged both of these. Let me see how to get a zip file on this forum. LMAO.
Please take a look at this and see what you think,
Edit: removed files see posts below.
Ryan
Please take a look at this and see what you think,
Edit: removed files see posts below.
Ryan
Last edited by chevmasta; Apr 8, 2012 at 05:20 PM.
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Well I merged them to, fixed the fueling VE table, reorganized a bunch, added a couple things from the hack. Scalers look complete?, tables look complete?, but flags need a lot more work but I'm done for the day.
I don't know why more people aren't using this PCM as it looks very good! I have one and a complete system in a box here I am getting ready to re-wire for a conversion.
Here's a zip with both ADX and XDF. EDIT Pulled files as they may be wrong!!!
I don't know why more people aren't using this PCM as it looks very good! I have one and a complete system in a box here I am getting ready to re-wire for a conversion.
Here's a zip with both ADX and XDF. EDIT Pulled files as they may be wrong!!!
Last edited by EagleMark; Apr 8, 2012 at 05:07 PM.
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Car: 1993 K3500
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Transmission: 4L80
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Thanks for the help Eagle.
I'll be working with this over the next few weeks and I'll post back on comments. The Data Tracing seems like a wicked SWEET option. I'm going to figure that out.
I've learned alot over the last couple weeks. Thanks to the both of you for your contributions.
You can see why I said earlier that support for this PCM seemed lacking compared to a 7727 (or whatever it is that's extremely common).
I think we now have something consistant and defined with the 7060.
Ryan
I'll be working with this over the next few weeks and I'll post back on comments. The Data Tracing seems like a wicked SWEET option. I'm going to figure that out.
I've learned alot over the last couple weeks. Thanks to the both of you for your contributions.
You can see why I said earlier that support for this PCM seemed lacking compared to a 7727 (or whatever it is that's extremely common).
I think we now have something consistant and defined with the 7060.
Ryan
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
The biggest issue with the '7060 is that GM barely used it. The '7060 is not that popular, only the early, '91-'92(?) trucks with the 4L80E used it. Although that is both the 5.7l and 7.4l engines. But needed to have the 4L80E transmission to have the '7060 PCM.
It is actually an interim PCM between the C3 series of TBI ECMs and the later '7427/'6395/'8625 series of PCMs.
RBob.
It is actually an interim PCM between the C3 series of TBI ECMs and the later '7427/'6395/'8625 series of PCMs.
RBob.
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From: West Richland, WA
Car: 1993 K3500
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Transmission: 4L80
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Yeah mine is a 1993. The BANC.bin was listed as a 91 or 92 IIRC......Build date on my truck is 02/93
Last edited by chevmasta; Apr 7, 2012 at 07:55 PM.
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
The biggest issue with the '7060 is that GM barely used it. The '7060 is not that popular, only the early, '91-'92(?) trucks with the 4L80E used it. Although that is both the 5.7l and 7.4l engines. But needed to have the 4L80E transmission to have the '7060 PCM.
It is actually an interim PCM between the C3 series of TBI ECMs and the later '7427/'6395/'8625 series of PCMs.
RBob.
It is actually an interim PCM between the C3 series of TBI ECMs and the later '7427/'6395/'8625 series of PCMs.
RBob.
One thing I did notice today for OP is to look into the PE or WOT settings. It is set up like newer PCM RBot
mentioned is a 60-70 second delay in most instances. I just did a 16197427 TBI conversion on my sons old IH truck and what a difference it is to actually have PE when you hit the gas! I'm guessing the delay was for emissions reasons and only comes on after that amount of time to cool the catalytic converter down? 
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From: West Richland, WA
Car: 1993 K3500
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Transmission: 4L80
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
the more I learn of these and working on these files today I can see that interim!
One thing I did notice today for OP is to look into the PE or WOT settings. It is set up like newer PCM RBot mentioned is a 60-70 second delay in most instances. I just did a 16197427 TBI conversion on my sons old IH truck and what a difference it is to actually have PE when you hit the gas! I'm guessing the delay was for emissions reasons and only comes on after that amount of time to cool the catalytic converter down?
One thing I did notice today for OP is to look into the PE or WOT settings. It is set up like newer PCM RBot
mentioned is a 60-70 second delay in most instances. I just did a 16197427 TBI conversion on my sons old IH truck and what a difference it is to actually have PE when you hit the gas! I'm guessing the delay was for emissions reasons and only comes on after that amount of time to cool the catalytic converter down? My first complaint about this truck since I had it for 3 years was the lack of power. So, recently I sought out a "chip" to buy to see if something would help the 235hp 385ft/lb pathetic excuse for a 454.
Talking to Brian at TBIChips he explained this delay. He asked if it was around 75% throtttle? I thought it was more like 50% no more than 66% throttle. Looking at the tables I see PE is at 60% throttle for a 70 second delay! LMAO
Truck runs much better now with his chip especially in PE and part throttle acceleration. However, I did have a problem with it.....he didn't delete the EGR function and my solenoid is bad. If you look at the "EGR Spark Advance" map......it was adding 10* SA. The stock chip had about 30 knock counts without the EGR functioning.
With his chip it detonated pretty bad at these low loads. EGR delete should take care of it.
I'm still going to fine tune my VE's and play with some SA eventually.
Ryan
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Car: 1993 K3500
Engine: 454
Transmission: 4L80
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
I found the below quote from Rbob about logging PW. Is there a patch that I can log PW? Please let me know if this is a possibility? Or will the directions below work for my bin/7060 pcm?
(be kind, I'm an idiot and don't understand the stuff below. LOL)
(be kind, I'm an idiot and don't understand the stuff below. LOL)
Since it's usually a one time deal I just edit the BIN directly and leave it. To do that open the BIN in Tuner Pro (TP) and open the hex editor:
Tools->Advanced->Hex Editor
Now you have a screen of gobbydy-gook. The left most column being the address within the PROM/BIN. The center being the hex, and the right being the hex in text.
For the '7747 we want to change these locations:
PW in place of PromID:
Addr: Value:
$D4E7 $00
$D4E8 $AB
$D4E9 $00
$D4EA $AC
SA in place of PromID:
Addr: Value:
$D4E7 $00
$D4E8 $66
$D4E9 $00
$D4EA $67
Now you won't find those addresses directly. They are the logical addresses once the PROM has been inserted into the ECM. To get the physical address need to drop the Dxxx portion off (or subtract $D000 from each address).
So we are looking for $4E7, scroll down through the hex editor until the address line 000004E0 is found. Each byte across is one more address. So $4E7 is the 8th byte over and is $D0 in value (the bottom status bar shows the address the cursor is at.
The 4 byte values in sequence is $D0 $02 $D0 $03, which is the location of the PROM ID. So type over those values with the data above:
$00 $AB $00 $AC
Then save it:
Action->Commit Changes
That BIN when used will now output the injector PW in place of the PromID.
Can put the SA value in place of O2 x-counts. For this edit BIN location: $50B
Go to that address in the hex editor and find: $00 $BA
Over write with $00 $67 (only need the LSB).
Then commit the changes. You may also need to save the BIN itself from the TP File->Save. This will update the checksum.
RBob.
Tools->Advanced->Hex Editor
Now you have a screen of gobbydy-gook. The left most column being the address within the PROM/BIN. The center being the hex, and the right being the hex in text.
For the '7747 we want to change these locations:
PW in place of PromID:
Addr: Value:
$D4E7 $00
$D4E8 $AB
$D4E9 $00
$D4EA $AC
SA in place of PromID:
Addr: Value:
$D4E7 $00
$D4E8 $66
$D4E9 $00
$D4EA $67
Now you won't find those addresses directly. They are the logical addresses once the PROM has been inserted into the ECM. To get the physical address need to drop the Dxxx portion off (or subtract $D000 from each address).
So we are looking for $4E7, scroll down through the hex editor until the address line 000004E0 is found. Each byte across is one more address. So $4E7 is the 8th byte over and is $D0 in value (the bottom status bar shows the address the cursor is at.
The 4 byte values in sequence is $D0 $02 $D0 $03, which is the location of the PROM ID. So type over those values with the data above:
$00 $AB $00 $AC
Then save it:
Action->Commit Changes
That BIN when used will now output the injector PW in place of the PromID.
Can put the SA value in place of O2 x-counts. For this edit BIN location: $50B
Go to that address in the hex editor and find: $00 $BA
Over write with $00 $67 (only need the LSB).
Then commit the changes. You may also need to save the BIN itself from the TP File->Save. This will update the checksum.
RBob.
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Probably can be done but there was already a BPW in ADX file so just need another value and equation for time. Look for a recent thread on 7747 where I did it for that and referenced all work done from guys in past.
But for right now you need to NOT USE THAT XDF!!!!
Something is wrong, it was in my $85 folder and named $85. But when I got to looking at hacks all in a $85 zip file stuff did not line up? I think the one XDF is $85 and one named $85 is $D8, the hacks were both from same PCM number but looking at the bin files 2 are $85 and 2 are $D8
I'm going to pull my uploaded files above and suggest you do the same till we figure this out.
But for right now you need to NOT USE THAT XDF!!!!
Something is wrong, it was in my $85 folder and named $85. But when I got to looking at hacks all in a $85 zip file stuff did not line up? I think the one XDF is $85 and one named $85 is $D8, the hacks were both from same PCM number but looking at the bin files 2 are $85 and 2 are $D8
I'm going to pull my uploaded files above and suggest you do the same till we figure this out.
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From: West Richland, WA
Car: 1993 K3500
Engine: 454
Transmission: 4L80
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Probably can be done but there was already a BPW in ADX file so just need another value and equation for time. Look for a recent thread on 7747 where I did it for that and referenced all work done from guys in past.
But for right now you need to NOT USE THAT XDF!!!!
Something is wrong, it was in my $85 folder and named $85. But when I got to looking at hacks all in a $85 zip file stuff did not line up? I think the one XDF is $85 and one named $85 is $D8, the hacks were both from same PCM number but looking at the bin files 2 are $85 and 2 are $D8
I'm going to pull my uploaded files above and suggest you do the same till we figure this out.
But for right now you need to NOT USE THAT XDF!!!!
Something is wrong, it was in my $85 folder and named $85. But when I got to looking at hacks all in a $85 zip file stuff did not line up? I think the one XDF is $85 and one named $85 is $D8, the hacks were both from same PCM number but looking at the bin files 2 are $85 and 2 are $D8
I'm going to pull my uploaded files above and suggest you do the same till we figure this out.
Bummer. Ok, I'll go back to my original one and delete the one you had posted.
Let me know what you find out on that. I'm not sure how I could help you but LMK if there's something I can do.
Ryan
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Car: 1973 Datsun 240Z/ 1985 S-15 Jimmy
Engine: Turbo LX9/To be decided
Transmission: 5-speed/T-5
Axle/Gears: R200 3.90/7.5" 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
I thought I uploaded the XDF I use at GH-efi.com. If I haven't I will shortly.
As Mark said, there's no need to try and find any patch or instructions to change the $85 BIN file and ADS/ADX, the BPW is already there.
--==EDIT==--
I just added "85sort.xdf" to the '7060 thread on www.gearhead-efi.com. This is the XDF I have been using for a couple years now to tune a friend's '71 Cutlass, that has many modifications, and keeps changing them. LOL
As Mark said, there's no need to try and find any patch or instructions to change the $85 BIN file and ADS/ADX, the BPW is already there.
--==EDIT==--
I just added "85sort.xdf" to the '7060 thread on www.gearhead-efi.com. This is the XDF I have been using for a couple years now to tune a friend's '71 Cutlass, that has many modifications, and keeps changing them. LOL
Last edited by Six_Shooter; Apr 8, 2012 at 05:26 PM.
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From: West Richland, WA
Car: 1993 K3500
Engine: 454
Transmission: 4L80
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
?
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,370
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Car: 1973 Datsun 240Z/ 1985 S-15 Jimmy
Engine: Turbo LX9/To be decided
Transmission: 5-speed/T-5
Axle/Gears: R200 3.90/7.5" 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Excuse the "DIY" part, thinking of some old names that could have been when I wrote that. lol
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Car: 1993 K3500
Engine: 454
Transmission: 4L80
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
yeah, the full URL is www.gearhead-efi.com.
Excuse the "DIY" part, thinking of some old names that could have been when I wrote that. lol
Excuse the "DIY" part, thinking of some old names that could have been when I wrote that. lol
LMAO.....I gotcha on the gear head though.
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Thanks for sharing your worked on $85 xdf Six Shooter! 
Anyway this 7060 PCM seems to have 2 masks, $85 and $DB. I can't find anything on $DB although 2 of the bins in the $85 hack zip come back as same PCM when checked in BCC Find and Cal Data, but $DB when you look at the hex. In a zip file marked $85 there were four bins and hacks, 2 are $85 and 2 are $DB. I have no idea who did the hacks but they are all very well done, the XDFs also had no author but were all marked $85. So it seems one is for $DB.
So sorry for the confusion. This may answer why some people have had horrible experiances trying to tune 7060 $85.
We should have caught this ealrier when you saw all 0s in a table...
Anyway this 7060 PCM seems to have 2 masks, $85 and $DB. I can't find anything on $DB although 2 of the bins in the $85 hack zip come back as same PCM when checked in BCC Find and Cal Data, but $DB when you look at the hex. In a zip file marked $85 there were four bins and hacks, 2 are $85 and 2 are $DB. I have no idea who did the hacks but they are all very well done, the XDFs also had no author but were all marked $85. So it seems one is for $DB.
So sorry for the confusion. This may answer why some people have had horrible experiances trying to tune 7060 $85.
We should have caught this ealrier when you saw all 0s in a table...
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From: West Richland, WA
Car: 1993 K3500
Engine: 454
Transmission: 4L80
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
I think I'd like to add that other spark table/equation to SixShooter's .xdf.
I had to add the 4* to the adx equation to get my correct spark advance.
This otherone:
45 SAREFFNL SPARK ADVANCE REL TO REFERENCE PULSES (MSB)
46 SAREFFNL+1 SPARK ADVANCE REL TO REFERENCE PULSES (LSB)
Double byte value in 2's complement representation
If Bit 7 of MSB = 0 then result is positive
value = (MSB*256 + LSB)
If Bit 7 of MSB = 1 then result is negative
value = 65536 - (MSB*256 + LSB)
DEGREES = value * 90/256
I looked on the gearhead-efi site at the bcc find. For 1993 is says banc.bin is used for over 10000GVW. I know mine is a 9200 not that it matters.
I signed up for the site. I look forward to donating for all your efforts.
Ryan
I had to add the 4* to the adx equation to get my correct spark advance.
This otherone:
45 SAREFFNL SPARK ADVANCE REL TO REFERENCE PULSES (MSB)
46 SAREFFNL+1 SPARK ADVANCE REL TO REFERENCE PULSES (LSB)
Double byte value in 2's complement representation
If Bit 7 of MSB = 0 then result is positive
value = (MSB*256 + LSB)
If Bit 7 of MSB = 1 then result is negative
value = 65536 - (MSB*256 + LSB)
DEGREES = value * 90/256
I looked on the gearhead-efi site at the bcc find. For 1993 is says banc.bin is used for over 10000GVW. I know mine is a 9200 not that it matters.
I signed up for the site. I look forward to donating for all your efforts.
Ryan
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Thanks, we just try to keep things orginized for EFI with no restrictions. The real tech development and talent has been here at Thirdgen for many years but has spread way past Thirdgen cars.
The weight issue may be where the mask ID changed as I noticed Govenor options in the other file.
That information for spark above is from correct ALDL 138.ds file for $85 and spark advance was already added to the ADX from above, the ADX was fine!
It was the XDF that had to be removed as it was a cross between $85 and $DB. I have no idea what ALDL file goes to this PCM with $DB, nor would I waste time on it, if I ever ran into one I would probably just burn a $85 bin file to it. This way time spent is developing one useful more popular mask. And if above is true that $DB is 10K up trucks etc... it would be a rare instance to tune one.
The weight issue may be where the mask ID changed as I noticed Govenor options in the other file.
That information for spark above is from correct ALDL 138.ds file for $85 and spark advance was already added to the ADX from above, the ADX was fine!
It was the XDF that had to be removed as it was a cross between $85 and $DB. I have no idea what ALDL file goes to this PCM with $DB, nor would I waste time on it, if I ever ran into one I would probably just burn a $85 bin file to it. This way time spent is developing one useful more popular mask. And if above is true that $DB is 10K up trucks etc... it would be a rare instance to tune one.
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From: West Richland, WA
Car: 1993 K3500
Engine: 454
Transmission: 4L80
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Small update:
I've received my hardware for tuning and finally have time to read/burn some chips trying to figure this stuff out.
I've read the .bin I received from (what I think) is a reputable tuner for TBI's. I'm still getting some spark knock in my old 93 chevy 454 when I have the truck loaded.
I'm going to be datalogging and tweaking my VE map and then my timing map here soon. This stuff is fun!
Attached are my stock BANC.bin I read from my chip along with the Towmaster.bin from the tuner.
Ryan
I've received my hardware for tuning and finally have time to read/burn some chips trying to figure this stuff out.
I've read the .bin I received from (what I think) is a reputable tuner for TBI's. I'm still getting some spark knock in my old 93 chevy 454 when I have the truck loaded.
I'm going to be datalogging and tweaking my VE map and then my timing map here soon. This stuff is fun!
Attached are my stock BANC.bin I read from my chip along with the Towmaster.bin from the tuner.
Ryan
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Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
I finally had one of these trucks in my hands so had a chance to clear up some confusion. Found that all Axxx $85 bin files were suprceeded to Bxxx $D8 bin files and the $85 mask from Six Shooter worked fine on a $D8 bin. Still not sure what the 2 XDF I have titled $85 are, just never had time to see if they both are same with the one mistake to that table...
Also got an ADX file set up for connection first shot every time in a stock factory truck. Six Shooters is a conversion and does not need a connection command. Stock truck does.
HTH!
Also got an ADX file set up for connection first shot every time in a stock factory truck. Six Shooters is a conversion and does not need a connection command. Stock truck does.
HTH!
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From: West Richland, WA
Car: 1993 K3500
Engine: 454
Transmission: 4L80
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
So I've been tweaking my VE and spark a little. This is my first time tuning (with a laptop) a vehicle. I've spent more time on the VE table than the spark so far. I've probably messed with it for 6hrs or so now?
Anyone care to look at my files and give me some feedback? I've had to remove some timing in areas from the chip I received from the tuner. Actually In some areas I'm back to near stock levels. specifically lower RPM an higher load (1600rpm to 2000rpm and 70-90kpa) .
The datalog is with my 2500lb camper on and I've since adjusted the bin to reflect the areas of some detonation.
I'm amazed at the help on this forum and also gearhead.
Thanks to everyone.
Ryan
Anyone care to look at my files and give me some feedback? I've had to remove some timing in areas from the chip I received from the tuner. Actually In some areas I'm back to near stock levels. specifically lower RPM an higher load (1600rpm to 2000rpm and 70-90kpa) .
The datalog is with my 2500lb camper on and I've since adjusted the bin to reflect the areas of some detonation.
I'm amazed at the help on this forum and also gearhead.
Thanks to everyone.
Ryan
Last edited by chevmasta; May 26, 2012 at 08:30 PM.
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From: West Richland, WA
Car: 1993 K3500
Engine: 454
Transmission: 4L80
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Question:
Is there even a point to have your timing in your map higher than what your scalar value is set to? My max scalar value is 41.84 however I have several cells over that value?
thoughts?
Is there even a point to have your timing in your map higher than what your scalar value is set to? My max scalar value is 41.84 however I have several cells over that value?
thoughts?
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From: West Richland, WA
Car: 1993 K3500
Engine: 454
Transmission: 4L80
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Is there a DFCO map that changes timing? When In DFCO my timing drops 6-7* lower than my lowest setting in my timing map? I don't have anything in my .xdf that I could find?
help?
help?
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From: West Richland, WA
Car: 1993 K3500
Engine: 454
Transmission: 4L80
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Im not sure if this will work. But here's a screenshot from the tuner, vs how I've changed it based off my datalogs. I've had to pull timing from lots of places. Last drive I got 6 knock counts total.....which is alot better than where I have been. lol
It's hard for me to wing an old, tired 213k mile 454 to 4k rpm. It never sees that with 35psi of oil pressure....well 99.9% of the time it will never see that. I think I'll do a WOT run or two with PE set really high so I can actually see the 3600rpm+ load cells.
*shrug*
Tuner
Current
It's hard for me to wing an old, tired 213k mile 454 to 4k rpm. It never sees that with 35psi of oil pressure....well 99.9% of the time it will never see that. I think I'll do a WOT run or two with PE set really high so I can actually see the 3600rpm+ load cells.
*shrug*
Tuner
Current
Last edited by chevmasta; May 30, 2012 at 12:10 AM.
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From: West Richland, WA
Car: 1993 K3500
Engine: 454
Transmission: 4L80
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: 7060 85.xdf BANC bin SA table and logging differences help
Found me the bin file the tuner used to create my spark map with. BAMY.bin out of a 90-93 454ss, I believe. It sure doesn't work on my truck. Take a look at the resemblance of the Stock chevy BAMY.bin vs the tuner's map:
BAMY:
Tuner:
BAMY:
Tuner:
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