liquidh8

Ok, copy that. I am running the stock BFR GN 200-4r. How does the ebl know what gear I'm in?

I'll dial the main SA table in closer then to where I am looking to be, then us that the to pull timing from 3rd 4th.

Thank you.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

If the gear detection works in a similar fashion to what the EBL Flash does, it uses a table with gear ratios to determine transmission gear by engine rpm and vehicle speed.
This is also why I'm not quite sure the mentioned TTA 200R4 actually has a need for 3rd and 4th switches?

liquidh8

Hmm, man I am rusty, haha, I didn't remember that in my EBL Classic. I figured something like that would have to be in there.

when I get home today I'll take a look back in the bin.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The NV gear ratio table is for stick shift transmissions. With an unlocked torque converter that doesn't work.

> How does the ebl know what gear I'm in?

With automatics there is one or two pressure switches. The 700R4 in later years has one for 4th gear. The turbo cars that used the 200-4R has not only the 4th gear switch it also has a 3rd gear switch.

So the ECM knows P/N, drive (R, 1st or 2nd), then 3rd gear, and 4th gear.

RBob.

liquidh8

Ok, thanks for clarifying. I just don't remember pressure switches, just the tcc solenoid. Man memory stinks.

ownor

iTrader: (5)

See, I was wrong anyways haha. Good explanation by RBob as always..
Makes sense to have 3rd & 4th gear switches with the turbo cars too I guess

liquidh8

The car has been in the garage parked, and I've been traveling for the Uncle, so no progress really. I did however start fabricating the brackets for the nitrous solenoids.

liquidh8

New season, new questions. Finally getting the alky installed, and the alky test/prime function is not working. Is there something I am missing? Im using the Chrysler fan relay like Rbob suggested some time ago, got power to it, and ground. The test button is momentarily push to ground like I saw in the schematic.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

There are a lot of easy ways for the prime to fail. Engine is required to be running, make sure there is a duty cycle in the ALKY - Prime parameter. Check that prime input pin D10 is at 12 volts, then goes to ground when the button is pushed.

Can look at a dump of a data log for the commanded duty cycle.

If you set the prime DC% to 50 (%). Should see about 6 volts on the ECM output when it goes active (pin C3 at the ECM, pin 2 at the relay). Note that the relay needs to be connected to see this.

RBob.

liquidh8

RBob, that's perfect. One thing I didn't have was the engine running, I just had the key on. I do have some DC in the alky-Prime table, but not 50%.

The test readings are something I hope you would Supply, so I can go right to pin D10 and check for 12 volts. I do know that the switch has got the good ground. I am assuming that D10 will only have 12 volts on it when the vehicle is running, not key on engine off.
i can backprobe the relay to ensure I have voltage there when the prime button is pressed.

Now, a question, if there isn't 12vdc at pin D10, what could be the problem? I haven't checked yet, I will tonight, but just looking ahead.

Thanks again for your reply! I'm trying to get it ready for Kirbans Open House.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

With the engine off there won't be any alky injection. That is most likely why there wasn't, no good filling the engine or intercooler with alcohol. I mentioned using 50% DC as an easy way to test the ECM output. Usually 12% is all that is required for a decent prime. But that would only drop the voltage by about 1.4 volts.

Not real easy to see at idle with the vehicle voltage varying a little.

Pin D10 is an input and has an internal 1.2K pullup to IGN+. More importantly is that it goes to 0 volts when the button is pressed. This can be checked at key-on, engine-off. And will verify that the switch is good.

RBob.

liquidh8

RBob, thank for explaining the theory of operation. That's a huge help in me testing the system. I'll run through later tonight and test everything out. I'll update my progress thank you.

liquidh8

Well, the switch is good. I have 12 at pin D10, and it pulls to ground with the switch pressed. I backprobed pin 2 of the relay, and with 50%dc I am seeing 6 volts or so. I also ensured 12v to the relay, have it. I also have good grounds. It seems the new relay is bad?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Either relay, pump or wiring.

With the 50% DC on the relay input (pin 2), check the voltage on the output (pin 3). It too should be at about 6 volts.

If it is at 0 V, I'd say the relay is bad.

If it is at 12 V, the wiring between it and the pump or the pump ground may be bad. Disconnect the relay plug from the relay and put 12 V to the connector pin 3. The pump should run full bore.

If so it's back to the relay. If no pump action trouble shoot from there.

Just to be sure the relay is the smaller one with no heatsink? The larger relay that has a large heatsink on it gets wired differently.

RBob.

liquidh8

RBob, thanks for the info again. I bought the relay brand new, 3 years ago, haha. It this one

https://www.amazon.com/Radiator-Chrysler-Plymouth-4707286AF-4897034AA/dp/B075FMFQYX#immersive-view_1523622933787
Is this the "no" heatsink version?

I'll try inserting voltage like you suggested, won't be till Monday though. In the interim, I'll order a new really just in case. I suspect it's defective.

I should have the pinout correct. I don't have the schematic in front of me to double check.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

That is the correct relay.

RBob.

liquidh8

Ok, thank you. Could you post the pinout? This was I can double check it.

I will update the tb thread when it works for me.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Is this what your looking for the last schematic
http://www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_SFI6_Drawings.php

RBob

iTrader: (1)

See image.

RBob.

liquidh8

Update, first off, thank you for the wiring diagram and pinouts.

So, I have all I need to the plug, ground, control voltage, 12v fused, and the pump feed. If I jump pin 3 and 4, pump runs full bore. Looks like I have a defective (new) relay. Time to get a new one.

I'll see if the local Advanced Auto Parts has one. I'll update the thread when I get a new one.

liquidh8

I picked up a new relay, dorman brand like the one I am replacing. Question, does the heatsink have to be grounded?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I don't know if that is required or not (grounding the heat sink). In the OEM application it is as they are riveted to the frame rail. I did the same and attached it to the inner fender via sheet metal screws.

RBob.

liquidh8

Gotcha, mine is mounted to the front of the aluminum radiator support, in the grill area for cooling. But the radiator support isn't a good ground, is powder coated. So be safe, before I mounted it, I added a ground wire to the screw holding it on.

It does work now, primes like it should. Thanks again for all the help. Now, I have a to decide on whether to use a check valve, or the solenoid I already have for the line going from the pump to the nozzle.

liquidh8

Well, it worked for a bit, like 5 minutes, then stopped working again. I made it to kirbans open house, and it didn't work the hour drive. Fuses are good, will troubleshoot it next week, at Macdill AFB this week

liquidh8

Update, after getting back from MacDill AFB, I went out and rechecked all the power, ground and signal wires. It appears I had a regressed pin in the relay plug. So, it is working now. Good news there. Ii can see the Alky % on the datalog, and the wbo2 get richer.

Now, I am running 20lbs, I will start to creap up on boost and timing.

Any recommendations on alky timing?

Also, I have both fuel pumps installed, but it sucks there is not light on the WUD, or column in the datalog when it is running. I never thought to add an LED to the pillar for the second pump.

I bought the parts to rebuild the transmission, so that will be soon. I also have to rebuild the steering box, it is leaking pretty bad, and the royal purple steering fluid isn't cheap.

juan89

Where do I connect the wideband ground wire ?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

You can ground to the engine block

juan89

C4 Corvette running SFI-6

juan89

When I enable EscTt - Enable malfunction test of knock sensor connection, I get a SES light.
Should this flag be set or not ?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Not when running the stock turbo Buick knock sensor and filter.

RBob.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Nice Juan!

- Rob

juan89

Thanks. it is a great system

juan89

Hi Bob ,

I would like to use the MAP faults with the check engine light. Will it detect a broken vacuum line to the MAP sensor ?
What happens when there is a fault code ? Does it open the wastegate ?

Regards,
Juan

RBob

iTrader: (1)

It will detect a broken vacuum line, but only with a closed throttle. With an open throttle the MAP reading can be anywhere. When the ECM detects that the MAP sensor reading isn't correct it goes into n-alpha mode and creates a MAP value via the RPM and TPS%.

If the MAP sensor vacuum line blows off while the engine is in boost, things will go south very quickly. Same if the FPR vacuum line is lost.

RBob.

juan89

Thanks,
RBob

liquidh8

Coming back to this thread. I've been running the car for a few years now and love it! I have the EBL controlling alky, and every other available option. Just finished the nitrous install so we'll go there.

But, I have a question. I have the 3 bar and 1 bar wired and installed, I thought the EBL was seeing both. But, after washing the engine compartment after fixing an oil leak I ruined the 3 bar. The 3 bar is what seems to display in the WUD. Is there and additional option word-bit to set when using 2 MAPs? If there is I must have missed it or inadvertently changed it.

Considering I was deployed for a year and farting around making notes in the xdf anything is possible.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Good to hear you are back at it. This flag should be set to let the ECM know that a 1-bar MAP is also installed:

Option Word 2 - Bit 5 - MAP2

This parameter sets how far off the two MAP sensors can be at key-on. The ECM reads both and creates an offset so that the transition between the two sensors is seamless:

MALF33/34 - Max MAP2 Offset

RBob.

liquidh8

Thanks for the reply, YES, weather is nice and I have been finishing some things up, like the nitrous bottle and a few lines to actually use it. Oil leak repair, catch cans, etc. When I messed up the TPS and 3 bar washing the engine i when I noticed only the 3 bar made a difference n the WUD. (kpa, voltage, etc.)

I didn't get to update this thread. I know I am redundant on the TB boards, but some of those guys aren't over here. In any case, I did find it. I have been running around on just the 3 bar I think, looking through some old bins. I went through all the effort to add the 1 bar, jeez. I wonder if I'll notice any difference? I did order a new 3 bar to replace the unit I messed up washing the engine compartment, that should be here in a few days.

As far as the offset, when would I need to change this? I see it Max, so I imaging if the sensors were wildly different?

Also, I never set the option flag for the ICbAE, option word 6 bit 3. On my OG EBL classic, I used the IAT and CTS and scalers. I haven't on this, which would help explain the vastly different VE learns way back when when the temp was 60d one day and 95d another.

After I get it running, I'll mess with this also.

liquidh8

Just popping, RBob, have you made any updates the SFI-6 wud or programming? I hit your site and did see the EBL flash getting some incremental updates.

Take care!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

We haven't made any recent updates. Although there are few that we can make. The CTS/IAT-IAT SA option, and progressive N2O along with the MAP AE correction are rather easy. But there is always more to it as it entails changing the XDF file, the calibration doc along with making an new .MSI install file.

So updates tend to lag unless they are really requested.

RBob.

liquidh8

Gotcha, I must admit they all sound awesome and would be great if you got around to it! Especially the progressive n2o as I have it on this car. Currently building a 4.5L stroker for it, so I haven't been driving it all year.