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Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by ULTM8Z
does the "1R" have something to do with the being a 350?
I was scanning through Ebay and although I didn't see any AUJP's, all the 90-91 Corvette chips have "1R" on the resistor packs. But the non-350 Camaro chips had something else...
Originally Posted by Tuned Performance
I’m currently out of town but I have a few aujp.
They all have a r as a second digit. I think the rest is the production date.
Example 1 as in 91 then the day of the year.
Looks like you need to install a cylinder select jumper. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...d-density.html
The netress and I believe it’s called I/o buffer chips are marked
16072665 & 16133420
These two posts being read in conjunction lead me to believe that I do not have the memcal I intended to purchase. Thanks for the info Tuned and ULTM8Z!
I don't mind jumpering a couple pins, that should be very easy, but could you explain why you are suggesting that? The post you linked is all over the place but I got the gist that it forces the hardware into 8 - cyl select mode. Are you doubting that this is a true aujp for a v8 as it sits? I couldn't see how that could be the case because it ran fairly well, timing/throttle response - wise, with just the memcal installed so I wouldn't think it was a v6 memcal or something like that.
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by Blade09
I don't mind jumpering a couple pins, that should be very easy, but could you explain why you are suggesting that? The post you linked is all over the place but I got the gist that it forces the hardware into 8 - cyl select mode. Are you doubting that this is a true aujp for a v8 as it sits? I couldn't see how that could be the case because it ran fairly well, timing/throttle response - wise, with just the memcal installed so I wouldn't think it was a v6 memcal or something like that.
unfortunately I'm not nearly well versed enough in this subject to explain it...
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
I don’t think it’s a true aujp memcal. I have seen j on 3.1 memcals.
Here is a older pic I posted on the aujp I have. Hopefully you can see the R second digit.
The one link I posted shows how to ohm the knock filter.
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by Blade09
I couldn't see how that could be the case because it ran fairly well, timing/throttle response - wise, with just the memcal installed so I wouldn't think it was a v6 memcal or something like that.
So with just the AUJP MEMCAL (no adapter) there isn't a cylinder select malfunction?
If not then it may be that the PROM being placed into the adapter isn't set for an 8-cylinder. This is a calibration parameter.
Also, the inked codes on the knock filter are lot and date codes. Nothing to do with which engine they are intended for. MEMCAL knock filter ID is done by a set resistor value, which can be measured.
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Thanks everyone for all of the info. I will grab my memcal on my lunch break and use the meter at work to verify the resistance across the pins you showed.
Originally Posted by Tuned Performance
I don’t think it’s a true aujp memcal. I have seen j on 3.1 memcals.
Here is a older pic I posted on the aujp I have. Hopefully you can see the R second digit.
The one link I posted shows how to ohm the knock filter.
That is disheartening to say the least. I will have to check that resistance and see what it shows.
Originally Posted by RBob
So with just the AUJP MEMCAL (no adapter) there isn't a cylinder select malfunction?
If not then it may be that the PROM being placed into the adapter isn't set for an 8-cylinder. This is a calibration parameter.
Also, the inked codes on the knock filter are lot and date codes. Nothing to do with which engine they are intended for. MEMCAL knock filter ID is done by a set resistor value, which can be measured.
RBob.
Using only the AUJP memcal the car fires up and runs ok. Obviously the fueling is wrong as I am running 32 lb/hr injectors (lean at part throttle, but rich everywhere else) but it has pretty good throttle response compared to my chips which seem to be pulling most/all of the timing for some reason. But it has never had any trouble codes or anything that has shown up while data logging.
I had ULTM8Z send me a tested chip with an AUJP prom on it that was known to be working and it failed just as mine were. I sent it back with my own prom and he tested it and it was successful as well.
I regard you and TunedPerformance as two of the most knowledgeable people when it comes to TPI systems, but your statements above nearly completely contradict each other. I do see where you agree that the only way to truly identify this memcal is to check the resistance as previously mentioned. I will report back what I find.
Originally Posted by Tuned Performance
@blade09 can you even use the memcal as a stand alone or is vats enabled?
This should be 18k if it’s a real aujp.
I have often wondered that myself. I have never messed with the VATS in my car but I have never had an issue with the factory AUJP memcal. I just stuck it in and the car fired right up. If I had a VATS issue it wouldn't even start, correct?
I may be way off on this, but if it was a v6 memcal wouldn't the car run very poorly? Wouldn't the timing be way off due to the difference in spark angle from a v8 to a v6? Because I hate saying it runs "good" with the factory memcal because its still virtually undrivable, but it runs better than with anything I've thrown at it so far...
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
This is the reading I got. Assuming I am checking the correct pins, which based on the pictures above I believe I am, I got a very different reading than what I expected. Can anyone shed some light here?
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by Blade09
I had ULTM8Z send me a tested chip with an AUJP prom on it that was known to be working and it failed just as mine were. I sent it back with my own prom and he tested it and it was successful as well.
Yeah basically I burned a 27S512 chip with factory AUJP on it and mailed it to him. It ran fine on my car and terrible on his car (as other burned chips).
He then burned a AUJP back onto that chip and mailed it back to me. It ran fine on my car.
That excercise seemed to exonerate his chip burning technique and equipment.
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
OK, I think a summary is needed. Correct me if I'm wrong, the issue for the most part is code 41, a cylinder select error:
*Only using the stock AUJP MEMCAL, engine runs no cylinder select error.
*Tried two different adapters (G1?) using the same AUJP MEMCAL (side mounted), produces a cylinder select error.
*Tried two PROMs, one of yours and one from Ultim8Z. Both produced the cylinder select error.
*Ultim8Z tested one of your PROMS along with his in his ECM, no problems.
This leaves only two things: either the MEMCAL isn't being plugged into the adapter correctly. Or, you have two bad adapters.
The MEMCAL plugs into the adapter pins starting with the very end opening on the MEMCAL socket. No offset, don't go by the adapter to MEMCAL connector as there is an extra column of pins on each end.
There is a third possibility, that is that the adapter isn't being fully seated into the MEMCAL socket. When we seat P4 boards the ECM is removed from the case, using two thumbs on the underside directly below the MEMCAL socket.
Then several fingers over the top of the P4 board and squeeze. Making sure that both MEMCAL ejection levers are straight up.
Regarding how the engine will run with a cylinder select error, it will be rich. A non-connect to the CylSel pin means it fires in TBI mode, it will blow black smoke as the injectors are being fired four times as often as they should.
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by Blade09
This is the reading I got. Assuming I am checking the correct pins, which based on the pictures above I believe I am, I got a very different reading than what I expected. Can anyone shed some light here?
It looks to be the correct pins, but doesn't this MEMCAL work with no cylinder select error when just it is being used?
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by RBob
OK, I think a summary is needed. Correct me if I'm wrong, the issue for the most part is code 41, a cylinder select error:
*Only using the stock AUJP MEMCAL, engine runs no cylinder select error.
*Tried two different adapters (G1?) using the same AUJP MEMCAL (side mounted), produces a cylinder select error.
*Tried two PROMs, one of yours and one from Ultim8Z. Both produced the cylinder select error.
*Ultim8Z tested one of your PROMS along with his in his ECM, no problems.
This leaves only two things: either the MEMCAL isn't being plugged into the adapter correctly. Or, you have two bad adapters.
The MEMCAL plugs into the adapter pins starting with the very end opening on the MEMCAL socket. No offset, don't go by the adapter to MEMCAL connector as there is an extra column of pins on each end.
There is a third possibility, that is that the adapter isn't being fully seated into the MEMCAL socket. When we seat P4 boards the ECM is removed from the case, using two thumbs on the underside directly below the MEMCAL socket.
Then several fingers over the top of the P4 board and squeeze. Making sure that both MEMCAL ejection levers are straight up.
Regarding how the engine will run with a cylinder select error, it will be rich. A non-connect to the CylSel pin means it fires in TBI mode, it will blow black smoke as the injectors are being fired four times as often as they should.
RBob.
All of your * points are correct. I have taken the ECM out of the car and removed the top cover to make sure I pressed the adapter in completely and and straight until the locking arms had a positive 'click'. No effect. I have also tried 3 different G1 adapters at this point. Dave at Moates had me send my original back and they actually determined it had a cold solder joint. Due to USPS mixups I received two new ones, which I checked continuity on every pin personally; neither one changed anything.
The cylinder select error sounds exactly correct as when I plug in my chip or ULTM8Z's chip I got a chugging and smoking mess. With a code 41 obviously.
This is how I connect the memcal:
and this is the current state of the mounting pins. All look perfect:
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by RBob
It looks to be the correct pins, but doesn't this MEMCAL work with no cylinder select error when just it is being used?
RBob.
Yes, it throws no codes when used by itself. My wide band reads 12.x:1 afr at idle, but it is smooth. I account for the richness due to it expecting substantially smaller injectors but that is just my assumption.
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Well, that all looks correct. At this point I would measure the resistance between MEMCAL pin 56 and the ECM. Pin 56 is the CylSel pin and is the 6th one in on the 66 row. Can find the row numbers on the bottom of the MEMCAL.
First just the adapter, measure between pin 56 on the header and the same pin on the bottom of the ECM. If OK, then plug in MEMCAL and measure between it at pin 56 and the bottom of the ECM.
One of them has to be open.
On a side thought, can always run a jumper on the bottom of the ECM board. From pin 56 to ground. That straps it for an 8-cylinder injection firing rate.
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by Blade09
This is the reading I got. Assuming I am checking the correct pins, which based on the pictures above I believe I am, I got a very different reading than what I expected. Can anyone shed some light here?
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by Tuned Performance
That’s from a v6 !
Well then I'm doubly confused as to how my car was ever running with it. Would the 730 ecm still read it without errors?
And can we absolutely confirm that? I bought it from a member here, and while I know I am probably screwed on this one I would like to raise suspicion to this person's future buyers should he refuse to work with me. I will be professional, but this was $200 I didn't have already so I am pretty hot that someone stuck an AUJP sticker on it and sold it...
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by RBob
I just had the same thought, but don't like the implication. The resistance reading does show that, a 2.8l/3.1l engine (if on the correct pins).
Blade09, if you have the header to read that PROM please do so. Check the maskid, or even post the BIN here.
If the calibration is also for a V6, that explains e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g regarding the code 41 CylSel issue.
I was wondering why the silver sticker looked rough.
RBob.
P.S. a lot of V6 engines used the '7730 ECM, even f-body's.
What are the settings to read the factory memcal in tunerpro? I've only ever used the 27SF512 chips. I made an adapter board at work real quick today. I didn't have one but I do now lol...
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
I can’t look at the hex I’m out of town for a month. What is the mask I’d 08-09. Control-H in tuner pro.
The prom could have been uv erased and reprogramed to a aujp program but the knock filter is from a v6. The aujp sticker should not peel unless it’s from another prom or has been removed .
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by Tuned Performance
I can’t look at the hex I’m out of town for a month. What is the mask I’d 08-09. Control-H in tuner pro.
The prom could have been uv erased and reprogramed to a aujp program but the knock filter is from a v6. The aujp sticker should not peel unless it’s from another prom or has been removed .
I'm sorry but I'm not accustomed to working within the hex itself. Not sure how to find the Mask ID. I have the hex up but don't know where to look.
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by ULTM8Z
I opened with an 8D mask, but it definitely is NOT AUJP.
Everything is different... VE, spark, power enrich, many of the constants, etc...
For one thing, the cubic inches parameter is set to 2314 cc/cyl. Which is fine if you're running an 1130 cu-in engine!
Prom ID is 2008 (AUJP is 571).
So yeah, I don't know WTF this memcal is...
I saw that too and had to rub my eyes. I figured I had to be reading something wrong because that would be a huuuge engine. Unless it reads different in a different mask? but yeah with 8D it had some wonky stuff in there...
I wish I was more knowledgeable on these things so I could figure this out for myself. But thankfully, you guys are pretty on top of it and still willing to help for some reason!
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
I talked to the member I purchased the memcal from and he admitted that he was unsure of the storied history of this memcal and there is a reasonable chance it was UV erased and reprogrammed and potentially restickered. I’m not sure why it is showing such weird values in tunerpro but that may explain why it still ran fairly decent in my car. While I’m not thrilled with that, stuff happens. He is willing to exchange it for another aujp at least so I will do what I can to verify this one is legit whenever he sends it.
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by Blade09
I talked to the member I purchased the memcal from and he admitted that he was unsure of the storied history of this memcal and there is a reasonable chance it was UV erased and reprogrammed and potentially restickered. I’m not sure why it is showing such weird values in tunerpro but that may explain why it still ran fairly decent in my car. While I’m not thrilled with that, stuff happens. He is willing to exchange it for another aujp at least so I will do what I can to verify this one is legit whenever he sends it.
As always, you guys are the best!
I'll refrain from comment on selling unknown memcals as something they may not be... especially if the member has the ability to verify it.
but in any event, glad he's making it right. Hopefully it ends up working out for you.
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
This memcal worked fine in when someone else tried this memcal in there car correct? And a Known good chip was sent to you and it did the same thing as your original chip. So my question is. Why are you still focusing on the chip when ypu have proven it over and over by trying other chips and others trying your chip but with the exact same results. It has to be something other then the chip.
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by tealman92
This memcal worked fine in when someone else tried this memcal in there car correct? And a Known good chip was sent to you and it did the same thing as your original chip. So my question is. Why are you still focusing on the chip when ypu have proven it over and over by trying other chips and others trying your chip but with the exact same results. It has to be something other then the chip.
Incorrect, the memcal was purchased on the assumption that it was properly identified and advertised. I traded 27SF512 chips as stated above to verify that the chips were being programmed correctly, eliminating any questions regarding my tuning specifically.
I am not focusing on the chip. This was a very confusing issue that only appeared when the adapter and chip were added to the mix. Only just yesterday did we finally circle back to the memcal being incorrect. I originally dismissed it since it was not throwing any codes when run by itself. I'd have never guessed that someone would have gone through the trouble to uv wipe and reprogram a factory memcal as well as change the ID sticker on it.
I am now working outside this thread, I prefer to give the seller the opportunity to correct this privately first, to get this memcal exchanged for the proper unit.
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Mailed the memcal back out to be exchanged this morning. He sent me a picture of the one he will be sending me. Stickers as an AUJP and has the 1R knock board. I’ll be verifying it upon arrival, now that I’ve learned how.
Fingers crossed that was the issue and this memcal fixes it. I’m dead isn’t he water til it shows up. I’ll update everyone once it does.
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by ULTM8Z
Yeah basically I burned a 27S512 chip with factory AUJP on it and mailed it to him. It ran fine on my car and terrible on his car (as other burned chips).
He then burned a AUJP back onto that chip and mailed it back to me. It ran fine on my car.
That excercise seemed to exonerate his chip burning technique and equipment.
With this being said and you already trying a known good chip in your car as stated before. Why would you think this new chip will fix the issue? Yiu have already tried a different chip with no better results
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by tealman92
With this being said and you already trying a known good chip in your car as stated before. Why would you think this new chip will fix the issue? Yiu have already tried a different chip with no better results
I know this thread isn’t the easiest to follow along but I’m not sure you understood what has been done. We verified that is was not the aftermarket chips that were causing the issue. So we took another look at the factory memcal. It showed to be problematic.
Now forgive me if im saying things you already know, but when tuning on an aftermarket chip in these cars you still have to have the factory memcal to run the knock circuit among other things. So I need a correct factory memcal to pair with my working aftermarket chip.
I hope that clarifies a little bit. You keep repeating the same question and I’m not sure what else I can say to clear up the confusion.
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Well despite paying for two day shipping it appears the memcal got the grand tour of continental US anyway. Tracking says out for delivery today... I just hope USPS doesn't lose this one. I insured it just in case since I seem to have terrible luck sending and receiving small electronic components these days.
No real updates, just wanted to let everyone know I was still waiting. Hoping to receive the replacement sometime next week. More to come..
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Okay, Couple of this to address finally. Thanks again to everyone who's been taking the time to be invested in helping me solve these problems. There is no way I could properly compensate you all for the amount of my headaches you've cured thus far. Unfortunately problems persist.
1) New memcal showed up. It does have the 1R knock board but when I checked the resistance like above my meter read 2.2 ohms. I was using my personal meter and not the nice one at work like before so I will take it in and check it for consistency tomorrow morning.
I also just read the bin off the memcal and if I am reading it correctly, there is no way it is a true AUJP either. I'm going to link it, would someone mind looking at it to tell me if I'm crazy or not?
2) TunedPerformance pointed out a little while ago that the memcal I was fighting above has been re-listed on ebay as a true AUJP by the member here that I returned it to. I can confirm this because he snatched my picture from a previous post where I am holding the memcal to show the ID stickers and he posted it to his ad! I believe that is going too far because he cannot deny that within this thread we have proved it to not be a true AUJP. I know the sale is an ebay matter but I originally found him because he had a thread on here in the classifieds section. Can I get some advice from a moderator on how to handle this properly within the confines of TGO? I don't think its fair to sell a bogus component to another enthusiast so that they can have the same problems that I did...
In the mean time, I'd probably avoid doing business with OUTATIME GTA on here...
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Well, I guess give it a shot now with the adapter. We're bypassing the PROM anyway with the chip adapter, so maybe it doesn't matter any more as long as the knock sensor board is correct? Someone more knowledgeable can correct me if I'm wrong.
Other option is to erase the PROM on the memcal using a UV eraser and burn AUJP onto it. We've already established that your burning technique and equipment is not at fault.
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
I don't know what that is, but it ain't AUJP.
Nobody plugs in a displacement constant that works out to 135,000 cubic inches! lol...
There some similarities to AUJP (for example, the true AUJP VE map vs your download), but a lot of differences. In some ways, one might say it looks like a corrupted version of a AUJP file, but in other ways, various things just look different (like it was a deliberate change). But it's definitely not a factory AUJP bin, that's for sure.
Dude, I can't believe the guy shafted you again! That really sucks...
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
Originally Posted by ULTM8Z
I don't know what that is, but it ain't AUJP.
Nobody plugs in a displacement constant that works out to 135,000 cubic inches! lol...
There some similarities to AUJP (for example, the true AUJP VE map vs your download), but a lot of differences. In some ways, one might say it looks like a corrupted version of a AUJP file, but in other ways, various things just look different (like it was a deliberate change). But it's definitely not a factory AUJP bin, that's for sure.
Dude, I can't believe the guy shafted you again! That really sucks...
Originally Posted by Tuned Performance
I have got bogus readings using cheap zifs. I wonder if your header is made from a wrong metal causing the readings on this aujp.
I didn't consider my adapter being a corrupting factor. I just broke down and bought the moates HDR1. Whats another $10 lol...
Either way, I am going to try to do some tuning with this memcal. I am interested in verifying the tune on the memcal because I won't ever try to sell it as a true AUJP as I know for a fact that it is. But either way, the tune is irrelevant correct? since it won't even be connected via the adapter...
Re: TBI -> MAF -> SD -- Doesn't like any tuning, send help!
You might want to start with axcn . Set the injector constant and the cid 784cc .
Then give it a test drive. This should make a world of difference in how it runs with the correct cylinder select.
Here is a link to the axcn. If the fan runs with the key on you will need to change the flag for fan switch type. http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...Information-8D
Last edited by Tuned Performance; 06-10-2018 at 01:09 PM.
05-24-2018, 12:56 PM
