W.E.G.

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Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

You need to remove the prom from its holder and do a read as a 2732.

W.E.G.

I understand the part about removing the PROM from its holder.

Can you elaborate on the steps involved to "do a read as 2732?"

I have no experience whatsoever copying chips, or doing anything with this software.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

With flash and burn select the chip 2732 and then click read. After thevread is done save the buffer file.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

To remove the prom from its holder. Turn it over press in the middle of the prom and squeeze the sides. This will slightly bend in the pins and release it from the carrier.

W.E.G.

I'm good with the mechanicla process of getting the chip out of the carrier.
The ECU on this car took a dump last year, and I successfully transferred the present chip from the malfunctioning ECU to the new ("rebuilt") ECU.

This is the interface I get when I launch Flash & Burn.

Once I "connect hardware" will the list of supported chips will be populated?

I see the "read" button.

Which button is used to save the buffer file?

Is it the "Save Buffer to File" button?
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Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Once connected The grayed our tabs will be black. Save buffer to file is the second tab down.

W.E.G.

Thanks.

Its gotten late tonight, so I've learned my lesson about working on electronic stuff when I'm tired.

I consider it a victory that tonight I managed to get the wife to finally shut down several automatically-recurring charges on a credit card we agreed to stop using.

Will dig back into the tuner stuff first thing in the morning.

W.E.G.

I got a little bit of second wind after dinner digested.

Got the chip out of the holder
Wow, those chips seem very fragile.
I understand clearly now why the ZIF (zero insertion force) adapter is essential if you plan on taking a chip in-and-out more than once.

But, doggone it. It looks like I got the wrong ZIF chip-adapter.
Too big (forty pins is too many!) for the 24-pin chip-slot on my ECU.
Getting the right size of things on these ECU's is as hard as getting the right sway-arm bushings if you don't already have a clear understanding of the range of variation in sizes out there!

Anybody can tell me what ZIF adapter I need to get?
I definitely need a ZIF device, because the legs on that chip are so fragile, I'll be doing well if I can get the 24-pin chip back in the plastic carrier, and reinstalled into the ECU even one time without breaking one of those little legs.
A correct-size version isn't jumping out at me on the Moates page where all the adapters seem to be listed.
http://www.moates.net/gm-19851995-c-64.html

Here's what I've got now:

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

You might want to ask moates but I think you need a g2.
The unused legs of the 28 pin zif hang off.
The zif I think can be removed off the g1.
The g1 can be used in your truck. You would need a hdr1 to read the prom.

W.E.G.

Thanks!

I haven't taken a look at the ECU on the 93 S10 yet, but I was wondering whether the G1 adapter might come into play for that at future date.

Dave at Moates got back to me via email (on EASTER no less)!
He cleared up things for me:
I need a G2 adapter instead of a G1 adapter.
Also, he gave the all-clear on the set of steps that I suggested for copying my factory chip to a file on my PC with the Flash & Burn PC utility.

I ordered a G2 adapter and ZIF adapter from the Moates website.
This thing: http://www.moates.net/g2-memory-adap...cing-p-36.html
and
This thing: http://www.moates.net/s2-aries-28pin...cket-p-44.html

I think I will keep the G1 adapter instead of returning it. I have a second ECU (from 1992 V6 Firebird) that I got as “boot” in a motor-swap deal. I opened it up yesterday to discover that it has a longish (compared to my ECU) chip that fits in a slot that looks like that G1 should fit. I have no immediate plan to put that ECU into service. Time and opportunity will tell.

Call me crazy, but I'm excited about the opportunity to SOLDER on the brain of my car.
I will try to report on how it goes.

I already have a couple 28-pin chips for moving forward.
I ordered those last week while I was doing my schtick of drunken-blind-man ordering tech gear on the internet.
I agree that it doesn't make much sense to try to stick with 24-pin chips. The only reason I can think of for putting up with 24-pin chips is to allow you keep using the access-coverplate for the ECU. That access plate feature is not important to me.

Anyhow, thanks a ton for your patience and guidance.
Without guys like you, I wouldn’t know whether to **** or go blind on this project.

W.E.G.

Check my work please.

I got my PC to recognize the Burn2 device.
I inserted my PROM into the Burn 2.
I clicked the buttons until I got what looks like a success message.

Is that correct that the BIN file is only ONE MEASLEY KILOBYTE?

Somehow I was expecting the BIN file to be larger.

Opinions anyone?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Should be 4KB. Need to change the End Address in the Buffer field.

RBob.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Not sure why the file is 1k but I think it should be a 4k file size.

W.E.G.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I’m not sure but I think it’s the buffer address that’s incorrect.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

000fff should be the end.

W.E.G.

Awesome!

I think that did it.

W.E.G.

Curious how the Burn2 "remembers" (or auto-populates) the end-address after that end-address was used once.

Next step is going to be to copy the newly-copied BIN file, which now resides on the hard drive of my PC to a 28-pin 27SF512 chip.

Should I use the same respective start-address and end-address I used for the factory-orignial 2732A chip when I burn the 27SF512 chip?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

You will need to set your offsets


http://support.moates.net/programmin...using-offsets/

W.E.G.

Here's a link to the file if anybody wants to look at it closer.

Uploaded to Google Docs.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mw...tC_Zkz4R1lpp64

W.E.G.

Super.

Thanks a ton.

W.E.G.

SUCCESS COPYING THE BIN FILE
I think I have now successfully copied the BIN file from the original EPROM chip from my Camaro to a new chip I got from Moates.

FOR OTHER BEGINNERS
I’m writing this post with it in mind that maybe others who are considering doing the same thing can follow this from my complete-beginner perspective.

PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR OFFSETS
I stumbled a bit trying to write the BIN file to the new chip. Still had my “offsets” not right, so when I ran the “verification” button on Flash and Burn, I got a fail message. Tried again, and paid closer attention to the offsets, and made sure they matched EXACTLY the prescribed offsets from the Moates page at http://support.moates.net/programmin...using-offsets/ .
Success on second try.

NEW CHIP – SAME AS THE OLD CHIP
So now I have a “new chip” that has the same BIN data on it as the original chip that I pulled out of the Camaro. The new 28-pin chip has the ability to be written, and erased, and re-written without having to stick it in an ultraviolet-light device like the old chip.

SOLDERING ON THE CAMARO CIRCUIT BOARD
Next step is to install the new 28-pin chip into the ECU for the Camaro. That requires use of an adapter. The adapter has to be SOLDERED into the ECU. That means I have to pull the circuit board out of the ECU, and then un-solder the existing chip-socket, and install a new chip-socket that will accommodate the new 28-pin chip. This soldering step is not required if you want to keep using the old-style 24-pin chips that require the ultraviolet-light treatment whenever you want to re-write the chip, and provided that you are OK with the delicate task of prying the old-style chip out of the chip socket on the ECU.

ZERO INSERTION FORCE
It is the delicate nature of that prying process with the old chip that convinced me to “upgrade” to the 28-pin chip. I will be un-soldering the old chip holder from the ECU circuit board, and I will be installing a new chip holder which will accept the new-style 28-pin chip. In addition, I will be installing a “ZIF” (zero insertion force) connector to the new chip holder. This allows me to just flip a small lever, and the chip will come out of the holder without all that scary prying and praying like was the case with the old-style chip.

ROOKIE SOLDERING
Now, about that SOLDERING. I have almost zero experience soldering on electronics. I did successfully solder a new headlight pigtail to my truck last month. But it did take me two butane soldering irons to accomplish it. The first soldering iron was a piece of junk that kept cutting off. I replaced it with a Weller brand butane soldering iron, and life got better. Before I go out on a limb unsoldering components from the circuit board of the ECU from my Camaro, I am going to try to assess my skills with a $14 “soldering practice kit” from Amazon. Moates offers a soldering service for ECU’s if you don’t want to try to do it yourself. I may end up there yet if my soldering skills completely suck on the practice kit. Moates says it’s a multi-week turnaround for their service. Not that I’m really in a huge hurry. Mainly I just want to try to stay focused on this unique project. If I mail-off my ECU, there is no telling where I’ll be with this notion mentally by the time it returns.

Pics of my success report from Flash and Burn, and pic of the beginner’s soldering kit below.

W.E.G.

Comparison of old chip to new chip.

Old chip is the one with the tin-foil "DELCO" sticker covering a clear window.
To erase the old chip, you gotta peel the tinf-foil off and stick it in a device that shines ultraviolet light through the window for about 20 minutes to kill the data that is already on the chip.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

On the topic of your zif. I would only have it installed during the tuning process and when your done just use the dip. The zif has tendency to fail or have bad connections when used in a automotive application due to vibration.

W.E.G.

Thank you for the heads-up on the risk of the ZIF failing.

I was wondering how many monkeys I could stack before it got weird.

As I stepped into these waters, I realized two things:
• It’s a mighty big ocean
• I would be better off if I have a clear destination when I start swimming

The trajectory of this as I see it is:
• Gather tuning software and hardware (check)
• Copy original chip from Camaro to PC computer (check)
• Create duplicate chip with BIN data from old chip (check)
• Install duplicate chip in Camaro and road-test to confirm functionality
• Experiment with changing “tune” on duplicate chip and road-test to confirm functionality of altered chip
• Install Ostrich emulator and attempt to change “tune” of car while motor is running
• Replace tired V6 motor with “refreshed” V6 motor (I have two motors – one in the car now, and one on the back porch, still in need of “refreshing”)
• Test “refreshed” motor with Ostrich emulator
• Determine suitable (hopefully optimum) tune for refreshed motor
• Write 27SF512 chip with optimum tune, and tidy up
• Not sure what happens after that. Maybe get on Facebook and post stuff about rims and taillights

In the meantime, my boondoggle soldering project kit should arrive soon. I might be in for a suprise right there. At least I can afford to do this. Not sure if I'm truly ABLE to do this. We shall see.

Anyway, thanks a plenty for all your time and advice. I'm sure I'll be back any day with a mystified look on my face.

W.E.G.

Updating the status of this project.

Good thing the wife was running in slow motion for our outing today.
Caused me to sit in front of the computer and watch some Moates vids and others regarding how to solder.

Is it just me, or does it freak you out when the Moates guy starts spraying down the circuit board from an ECU with Autozone carburetor cleaner?
See I guess its OK because he's done it before.

Then he washes the board off in the back yard with the garden hose. OMG!!!!
See Well... OK, I guess he's done it before. Then he blows it off with compressed air from a shop hose connected to an 90-gazillion gallon shop air supply.

Call me a fraidy-cat, but I think I'll clean mine up with Q-tips and alcohol. If any compressed air is used, I'll use the canned stuff. Gently.

Anyhow, watching the vids made me realize a three things about my tool setup.

SOLDER SUCKER:
That $6 standalone solder-sucker thing I bought isn't gonna cut it. You need to have a tool that all-in-one simultaneously heats the hole in the circuit board and sucks the old solder out before it can be reharden. The Moates guy has an expensive continuous-suck tool (around $300) that looks like its really fast. There is a less-expensive suck-and-spit tool that costs a lot less, and is surely slower, but still gets the job done. I ordered a suck-and-spit tool for $21 on Amazon.
Amazon link:

SIZE OF SOLDERING TIP:
The tips I currently possess for my Weller P100 Portasol are way to wide at the tip for working on circuit boards. I ordered a couple narrowwer tips.


FLUX:
I was unware of the crucial need to "paint" the circuit board with flux to ensure a good joint. A flux pen can be used to prep the board for installation of the new parts. I ordered one of those.
Amazon link

So, its gonna be about another week for these extra bits to show up. Just as well, since I'm busy with that horrible thing known as "work" a lot this-coming week anyway.

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W.E.G.

Looks like my soldering tips might finally arrive today.

Tomorrow supposed to storm all day, so good weather for sitting inside at the bench.

Only took USPS a week to move two soldering tips from New Jersey to northern VA, because of course western South Carolina would be the route I would go to get from New Jersey to DC.

W.E.G.

W.E.G.

Made a little progress on the soldering training before I attack the circuit board from the Camaro to install the Moates parts.

The pic below is a $14 soldering trainer kit I got from Amazon.
Very good product for evaluating the limits of my tools and for developing my technique.

It is apparent to me that the Weller Portasol (butane powered) tool is not going to be suitable for the fine soldering required for the Camaro circuit board.

The training/practice kit tasks the user with soldering progressively smaller pads on the circuit board. Even the narrowest tip I have for the Weller Portasol is going to be a bit too wide for the smaller pads. The pads on the Camaro's circuit board are about the same size as the smallest pads on the training/practice kit.

The area I outlined in red is the area I worked on yesterday. You can even see a spot in the lower right of the outlined area where I carelessly/unknowingly allowed the exhaust port from the butane soldering tool to blow hot exhaust on the circuit board. Burned it pretty good. I'm very glad I didn't learn that lesson on the board from the Camaro.

I've ordered-up another soldering iron - this time a 120v high quality Weller unit Model 1010 NA - about $110 on Amazon
The new Weller iron is well-suited for a pinpoint type soldering tip. Even the narrowest Weller "chisel" or "screwdriver" type tip is going to be less than suitable for the Camaro's circuit board, or even the smallest pads on the practice/trainer. The new Weller is supposed to arrive in two days.

I really can't say enough positive things about the $14 practice/trainer kit. I have zero previous experience soldering just about anything. The kit is really helping me as I work toward the goal of not destroying the circuit board from the Camaro when I finish my soldering training regimen.

W.E.G.

After being away from this thread for a month-and-a-half, I'm finally making progress on my ECU upgrade. Life (and in this case death of family) gets in the way of the Camaro as reality is wont to do.

I got the 24-pin chip holder out of the daughterboard, and I installed the 28-pin adapter in its place. Also installed the ZIF adapter. The chip you good fellows helped me figure out how to burn is installed atop it all.

As I'm getting ready to test my work in the car, it occurs to me that I'll have to pull the knock-sensor chip out of the spare ECU that I'm currently using in the car. We never talk about copying the knock-sensor, or about keeping extra copies of the knock sensor.

In a perfect world, I'd like to have one working ECU that is completely unmodified, and this modified ECU for me to do my mad-scientist stuff with.

I know we aren't supposed to do "prom-begging" here, but does anybody have advice on how I can get my hands on an extra knock sensor chip?

W.E.G.

Any info on whether the knock sensor chip is the same for V8 vs V6, assuming same model ECU is used?

Although, I will admit that I don't know whether, for a given model-year, the same model ECU is used for V6 vs. V8. I'm sure the PROM chips would have to be different.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

That is the redundant fuel device (RFD) calibration chip. It is a network of resistors. It is called the CALPAK by GM, but early on we also called it the NETRES.

The 2.8l EFI f-body engines don't have a knock sensor or filter.

About the only place you will find that chip is from another '7302 ECM.

RBob.

W.E.G.

Thank you for the clarification and explanation.

Was the 7302 ECM used on third-gen cars other than the V6 models?

How precise do I need to be for choosing a replacement?
Will a CALPAK from an automatic-transmission V6 car work in my manual-transmission car?

Would a CALPAK chip for V8 car be compatible with my V6?
(assuming no, but can't hurt to ask)

How critical is it to match the model-year?

Is there any practical way to copy the existing CALPAK?

W.E.G.

Below is a representation of the markings on my CALPAK chip.

Anyone know if these markings have any unique meaning, or if a chip with same markings would likely contain correct data for my car?

W.E.G.

Swapped-over theh CALPAK chip to the "science project" ECU (ECM #1 in pic above) that I modified to take the 28-pin PROM chip and ZIF socket.

Just fired her up in the driveway and ran up to operating temperature.

Seems to be ready for a test drive.

<smiles>

W.E.G.

...and she ran great with the new chip I built with y'alls help!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Not that I know of.

Most likely the same as it only controls the fuel.

In general a V8 CALPAK creates a shorter PW.

It isn't.

Sure, measure the value of the resistors and also get an idea of how they are wired. Duplicate with discrete resistors.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The white bar on the left defines the pin 1 end of the chip. The 2 in the broken circle could be any number of things. The 8813 is likely the data code of manufacture ('88, 13th week).

The number 16046459 is the part number. This is the one that IDs the CALPAK.

RBob.

W.E.G.

At the risk of jinxing this...

W.E.G.

So, do I just go plug this sucker into the ALDL port and then get to watch live-stream data from all the sensors?

I am excite.

W.E.G.

Guess I did jinx it.

How can I make this rig do something?
Laptop is somewhat aged Compaq Presario with Windows XP home edition - service pack 3
I'm using the the "ALDU1" device from http://support.moates.net/aldu1/




Anything?

W.E.G.

Progress!!!

TLDR version:
changed the COM port and now it works




This old PC only offered two COM ports for connecting: COM4 and COM7
I'm not really a "computer guy" so I can't really tell you why it has any COM ports. All I can tell you is TunerPro only recognized two ports when I connected the Moates "Xtreme ALDL" (aka "ALPU1") device.

W.E.G.

So, just what exactly was I able to do with this thing?

I was able to "see what the ECU sees."

I was also able to record a "data-log" of the session, so I can go back and watch the two sessions I performed today.

Below is a screenshot of the default-view "show all data lists" while the car was still warming up in the driveway, and in "OPEN LOOP" mode.

W.E.G.

Here is a screenshot I took - still in the driveway - right after the ECU switched to CLOSED LOOP.

W.E.G.

I drove the car for a few miles after it was fully warmed-up. Real hot day today too.

Couple of points:

I got motivated to dig into this "see-what-the-ECU-sees" tuner project because this car has always had an intermittent "bucking bronco" tendency. Its just evil when it starts with that. To the point of being truly physically painful to drive when it happens. Well, how about that. The ECU is seeing something that the ECU regards as a "fuel pump voltage" error. I have intermittently been able to pull a 54-code using the "paperclip method."

I think I've occasionally had a 24-code too. Which is "VSS" (vehicle speed sensor???). I'm not quite sure what to make of that. I need to get busy googling what that involves.

It was hard to look at the screen of the laptop and drive at the same time. I did glance at the screen a few times, and I noticed that "vehicle speed" (first item on the list) numbers were WAY OFF in terms of Miles Per Hour. I was seeing numbers like "75" when I know I wasn't going more than 35. So, yeah. If that "vehicle speed" number is supposed to be MPH, whatever sensor is reading that is handing out some seriously bad information.

The engine RPM numbers all looked high to me too. It kept reporting idle numbers over 1000 rpm. I'm positive that's not right. I "know cars" enough to know when an idle-speed is below 1000 just by listening. Moreover, I've run a conventional timing-light on this motor, and the timing light RPM function is reporting RPM speeds 750-850. Nowhere near 1000.

During the test run, the car did do its "bucking bronco" performance during the latter third of the 15 minute drive. So I CAUGHT IT IN THE ACT, and I've got it recorded. There's no denying now.

I'm tired and hungry, so I need to take a break before I study any of the rolling-data from the data log files, and try to comment further.

I uploaded the two logs (.XDL files) from today to Google Drive in case any hardcore enthusiast feels like looking. Links follow.

Idling in the Driveway
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1b0...MNNbxGpJuHXy7G

15 minute drive with "bucking bronco" behavior in last 5 minutes
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Mi...XGzpAVDBp9r9v8

I named the two XDL files "success1" and "success2" respectively.





I do want to say I was all smiles when that blue CONNECTED bar finally showed up at the bottom of the screen.

W.E.G.

I'm not sure those two XDL log files I uploaded to Google Drive are properly accessible.

I gotta get something to eat before I can figure out how to properly share these sorts of files so that anyone can actually download them so that they can be properly played back.