blinky22

Over the last 2 years, I have been working on my car 1989 iroc 350 and installing the following upgrades
Heads (Afr 195’s)
Cam (268xfi) lifters, pushrods and timing set
Headers and y pipe (headman 68470)
EBL Flash for tuning
Porting the intake, larger runners
2300 stall
deleted emissions

I got it running last fall but had problems found out it had a bad vacuum leak from one of the runners the snow was coming so i put the car away for the winter.
got it all back together this week and it will not idle it starts rough and have to feather the throttle to keep it running.

when I disconnect the vacuum line from the MAP sensor the car will idle perfectly so I am not sure if it has to do with a bad MAP or how I have it plumbed into the pellemb or my setup with EBL.
The bin I am using is the EBL-F-3005.bin.

I was having the same problems last fall and have started from scratch with the tuning have also rechecked MAP wiring but all seems right
I have to say I am very new to this tuning so this is all kinda new to me.
if anyone can give a little advice on where to start or look for would be very appreciated

Thanks
Blinky

firefox7518

Hi

Sounds similar to my issue I had with it. I plumbed it on the wrong port on the plenum. You have to be carefull as the one port where the CCP is attached to is actually only activated when throttle is open. Plumb the map to the same port as the fuel pressure regulator.

After that I still had some issues which was:

Check the settings of Option Word 3 - EgrNCOption Word 3 - EgrNC was set to active in the base bin file, which is strange because I thought they are normally open on these cars. So I changed that and voilą the car is running perfectly fine now. The EGR was the issue and was constantly introducing leaks. Took my quite a while to find this. The car ran more ore less good after some VE changes so I always thought it's a simple effort to tune the VE right but it was horrible to drive off the line as the engine struggled hard to stay running on light throttle application and MAP values shoot up to 70kpa even though I only applied 2% TPS.

blinky22

Firefox thanks for the reply.
I had it plumbed the same as had at first see below

so I re-plumbed it as you suggested

I also made the change EgrNc you suggested but still, no luck still will not idle unless the vac line to the MAP is disconnected.
when disconnected it will idle smoothly without any peddling the throttle, with it connected it takes a lot of work on the throttle to keep it running for 10-20 seconds before dying.

I don't think the sensor is bad as when it is connected I can see it changing in EBL WUD I ran about 4-5 learns with each change I made and nothing seemed to work it out.

I have also tried raising the idle speed had no effect going to try doing more research on making changes in tuner pro.
also with the egr and other pollution things removed what other things should be or can be disabled in the BIN files

any further advice would be much appreciated

Thank you

Blinky

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Blinky, you are running the EBL II, which tells me you converted over from MAF input, which also means your plenum has minus one port in that location for vacuum. Don't T into a port with the fuel pressure regulator, the MAP sensor needs its' own port feed. Drill and tap right next to that one using the correct sized port, or run the vacuum wire to another constant (not timed) port on the system. Although my car came with Speed Density, I am using an earlier plenum, and I drilled and tapped the plenum for reference.

Edit: What is your kPa at idle when you can keep it running with no assistance from the throttle, and what is the MAP reading during key on only on the WUD screen...?

Edit again, now that I look at it, you have a three way going on with the MAP sensor feed, and not in an exciting way lol. It "looks" like you have your fuel pressure regulator having its' own port, while two others share with the MAP sensor. Don't tell me that you are running the EGR, MAP and HVAC (or Vacuum gauge) all in one? If not (because the picture is hard to see), then who is sleeping with who in that three way lol...?

- Rob

firefox7518

Sorry I overlooked that you deleted emissions, in that case I imagine you have the EGR port completely blocked off, right? Then of course the solution from me will not change anything. However, if the block off of the EGR is bad you can introduce not measured air which screws you over completely. Make sure it is really leak free.

There is no need to drill a port and possibly ruin a plenum. I worked on over a dozens cars with programmable ECUS like ECU Master Blacks or holley and I drive a lot of MegaSquirts on my other cars. There is no need for a separate port if everything else is ok. Numerous of OEMs are also using one port for this but of course the port should be good and designed for getting all the kpa on every situation. I'm running my EBL2 on the FPR and it works perfectly fine.

Back to the basics. What does the MAP show when engine is off and ignition is on? It should be really close to 100kpa, depending of the altitude you are living. In my case in Switzerland I'm at 97kpa to 98kpa.
What does it show when running in idle? It should be around 30-40 for a stock engine. My 350cui is idling at around 33-34kpa. Your 268xfi has a LSA of 113 which should still behave stockish at idle and should deliver some good vacuum but it can be a little higher. With the base bin the car should still run as in my case it was plenty rich.

Does it die when the car goes into closed loop or also already on a cold engine with open loop?

What injector size do you have? Did you set them correctly up as in the manual described from Bob?

As StreetLethal we are guessing you moved from MAF to MAP? Where did you get your 5V source from and did you check that 5V is on the correct port and the signal working correctly. You can easy test this by not starting the engine and ignition on sucking with a vacuum source ( in my case my mouth, haha) and see if the values change. If not you have an issue. If the map is not connected it will use a default value for it so that you can still limp home.

Show us your table and a datalog and bin so that we can check your settings and also the parameters during this condition.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

My honest concern with this is based on the same reason GM changed the design of the plenum, otherwise they too would have shared a port to save themselves money during production. The Barometric Pressure reading needs to be precise, and although we can get it to run properly teeing off of another tangible, when an engine's overall efficiency and pre-configured tuning is based on its' Barometric Pressure reading, this is why they were forced to change it. Very different from using Mass Air Flow. Not to mention being more prone to vacuum leakage. In the end though, a data log will tell the story, so he needs to post one up...

- Rob

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I mean right here says it all. Without knowing his kPa at idle, without knowing if he set off a Malfunction code, without knowing anything for that matter, it becomes that game of lets try this fix over and over again until then engine is back to normal, which is the same as shooting arrows in the dark. Reality is, that engine should have been running perfectly five minutes after the runner issue was corrected if the EBL was installed properly. Bottom line is, what changes to the bin did he make? Does his spark reference match his base timing? How did he calculate his injector fueling? Is he running larger injectors? And on and on and on. Just state if any changes were made to the bin, are you running larger injectors, and post up a datalog whenever you can. It can be diagnosed in seconds once all information is known...

- Rob

blinky22

Thank you for the comments.
My wife has made me take her to the city for the next few days so I will not be able to work on the car,
When I get home I will go through and review the items noted above and I will also go through the setup process again to confirm things are correct.

Thank you for the pointers in the right direction

Blinky

blinky22

I got it running well idling did not take it for a drive yet.

When I started the car last year the timing was 180 out my buddy that was helping me said we could just move the plugs on the distributor to fix it, we did that and it started no problem with the factory computer then I installed the EBL and things went down from there.
So today I removed the distributor and fixing the 180 deg issue and reset the timing at 7deg advance and went over all the install things I could think of.

Then I started from scratch on the EBL and BIN setup most everything was set up and did not make too many changes and started it and set the timing but still had the issue with the MAP and no idle so went through the bin again and the final issue was I did not set the "Option Word 2 - Bit 4 - 3-Bar" to read the map sensor correctly.

After that change she started and idled and sputtered a bit but did smooth out a bit with a few VE learns.
I have attached the BIN where I ended off and a short data log for you to check out and advise where to move on to next for any basic setup items that I may not have right

Also I have 22LB/HR BOSCH injectors
44 psi fuel pressure
Initial SA 7deg

Thanks for the help

Blinky