Ya'll just need to do whatever it takes to get yourselves a WB.
Period.
Trying to get around it is just a waste of time.

I'd venture a guess that I've done 3-4x more chips then anyone around here, and have been tuning for going on 40 years. I have built a couple of the DIY-WBs, and now have one of Bruce Roe's LED displays.

WOW,

You can see all the AFR transistions clear as a bell. AE, MAP increases, DFCO, it's all there. Just out of the corner of your eye you can see what's going on, now.

If you don't know how to solder, it's time to learn. There is no reason not to learn something new, and if saving $400-800 isn't worth it, well your on the wrong list. No one is making a penny off of this on the USA version. It will pay for itself damn near just in gas. All the worry about injector constants bas pulse widths, all the little stuff that drives ya crazy to rough things out just is sooo much easier to see and figure out.

Ya ya, data logging, if you can't figure things out with Bruce's Display, well dunno what to tell ya.

If you haven't gotten a WB to work, you need to sit down and figure it out.

Not everything is going to be a gimme in life, some things ya gotta work at, and forgo the instant gratification stuff.

 

What you say sounds good. Anyone know where I could get a datasheet for a WB-O2 so I could understand how/why it works better than a regular O2. I am wondering how linear they are.
What's the big deal with the nonlinear curve of a regular O2 anyway. So what, it is a little in accurate at the high and low ends. How do I know if 17:1 is better than 16:1.....I thinks it is a don't care. A WB-O2 won't tell me if I can gain an extra 5 horse at WOT any more than a regular O2. If the engine feels like it is running right, then all the O2 tells me is that I know how to tell if an engine is running good. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I still think the WB-O2 is still an excellent educational tool. So yeah, I am still hooked. Hats off to all of the WB circuit designers.
Thanks,
J

 

The WB project is a G.o.d sent for tuning any vehicle, be it fuel injected or carb. You're right, the standard o2 sensor will work to tell you if it's rich or lean but it's accuracy is influenced by the exhaust temp.

 

Thank you. Now I see what you guys are saying. I didn't realize that the curve was that non-linear. The factory ECM has an A/D that is 8 bits(I think). So it will be able to detect 4 mV changes . I wonder how much noise is induced on the wires from the O2 to the ECM O2 input. I'll have to check that out.
Thanks for the post. Would you happen to have the figure for the WB-O2? Something to compare to.

Thanks,
J

 

The deal is resolution.
You can see what your doing and when.
If your not a plug reading expert, you can have a clue what your AFR is. During transistions you have a real idea of what the engine likes and dislikes.

Just like using a scanner vs a DVM. You can get along just fine with a DVM, but seeing all the parameters just makes it that much quicker, and easier.

If you want to research it just search the archives at DIY-EFI, then some patent searches and SAE papers will help.

 

I'll check those places for some more info. I see what you mean about the resolution. It just looked to me like 4 mV would be enough.
Thanks,
J

 

Grumpy, will the display be offered as a kit on the DIY-WB website? I don't see any mention of it. Sounds essential.

 

There will be a link to it, when he's completely finished with it, and he'll be selling the boards.

You can get by with a DVM, the LED just makes it easier to use.

 

Why not do this.

WB-O2 ----> | Transfer Func. T[] | ---> D/A -->ECM

Where Transfer Func. T[] = MicroChip PIC (with A/D) or similiar. Also, have a tap to whatever LED display you chose. Why not?

J

 

What about?

WBO2 ---> 5V A/D(LIKE MAP2) ----> RAM VALUE ---> ALDL DATA STREAM

Why would this not work?

John

 

It would work just as well. It requires a code re-write /modify of the existing ECM code to do the transfer function before the algorithms use the O2 value. This would be a very custom PROM(code change). I was just thinking that doing it only in hardware would be cheaper (well you still have to write PIC code). At least this way anyone could just hook it up to any ECM. Each ECM wouldn't require a PROM code change.
Your thoughts are good though. It is just a matter of opinion really.
J