I spent the afternoon trying resistors, again. I have had intermitent sucess 5.98-6.01kohms instead of the 6,040,000 from the list I got.

Doesn't work every time though, and still hasnt turned over or heard the fuelpump.

The three relays on the firewall is the fuelpump relay the one on the outside of the bracket? The one on the left looking at it from the front? How do I test the fuel pump, with a wire to termina 30 and to 87a?(forgot the acd pattern).

There is a wire with one terminal on it within inches of the relays, red, is this the fuelpump test terminal refered to in another post? How do I use it?

This thing has been sitting on the road for weeks. I got to get it going and I can't store it at my apartment. The tow yard cuts us some slack when we buy from them, but this free parking won't last.

 

The relays on the firewall are for the fuel pump relay (inside relay) and the coolant fan relays. The red wire that you have mentioned is the fuel pump test circuit. As I mentioned in the other post that you were on, apply 12 volts DC to it with a jumpered fuse wire and ground to either the battery negative post or a good spot on the car frame. If you are not hearing the fuel pump prime when you turn the key, look for the 20 AMP fuse near the battery either on the fenderwell or near the radiator behind the right headlight. That fuse being blown will knock out the fuel pump and ECM.

 

Should I just ground the fuelpump test to ground thru a fuse?

Or do I run 12volt from another source like the battery to the test terminal then ground it thru a fuse?

Is the right side the driver side?

I'm going to look it over again before work.

 

I have not found the 20 amp fuse near the frewall and powerbooster for the brakes, orby the battery and windshield wiper resivoir, or by the intake on tje passenger side. Where is the fuse?

Would the vats security light work if the fuelpump/ecm fuse was burnt?

 

There is not a 20 AMP fuse on the firewall near the power booster. It is near the battery, either on the fender well near the coolant overflow tank or near the right side of the radiator behind the right headlight. Yes the VATS security light would work even if that fuse was burnt out. The car will crank if it is burnt out but it won't start. Look harder!!!!!!!!!! it is there...

 

Found it on the fenderwell on passenger side in front of coolant tank. Fuse is good.

It doesn't crank over. Does that mean that vats is still working?

 

What is the security light doing while you are doing this? From the resistance reading that you are giving, go a little higher in the 6000 OHM range. You might have a broken wire on the ignition lock cylinder, a worn key or worn contacts in the lock cylinder. Worst case scenario is a bad VATS control module if this is VATS related.

 

I bought it from a tow company auction. No key. I have been trying to bypass the vats with resistors. I thought I might have found the resistance but was mistaken.

I found this chart and went thru it a few times without success.




Would the vats module being bad cause the security light to come on even with the right resistance?

Can I test the fuelpump and starter, do I have to beat the vats first?

Found another chart with one value different.

 

My apologies for editing your post with the codes, it is the policy of this board not to post the codes even though they can be found readily enough elsewhere on the internet.

To answer your questions about the module. Yes the module being bad will cause the light to come on even with the correct resistance. How are you going about connecting the resistance to the wires. Is it through the purple/yellow & black/white wires going to the module? You could also have a wiring problem to the module or ECM from the module. How long are you waiting between each attempt. You should wait at least 5 minutes between each attempt. You can test the fuel pump just by turning the key in the ignition you should hear it prime. There is also a test point by the fuel pump relay in the engine compartment for testing the fuel pump with 12 volts DC through a fuse jumpered wire and ground. If you need it later, I have the schematics for the VAT system for your car and can send it to you.

 

When I puled the cylinder I had to disconnect the 2 wire plug under the colum and fish it thru. After I had the ign key cut I tried to fish it back thru...

But that is where I'm trying the resisters, connected directly to the 2 wires i stripped from the plug.

The first time thru I just twisted the resistors to the wires. Later tries were with aligator clips on an extension, easier to reach.

When I turn the key on with no resistance the security light doesn't come on. When I hook up the two resistors to get one of the
key values. If I turn on the key without the security light being on I go ahead and try another value. After trying a false value and the security comes on, it stays on for a few minutes, even without a resistor.

When I turn on the key I get no fuelpump sound. When I turn on the key the srs light flashes and then steadies, and the check engine light comes on.

 

Okay, you are trying the resistors at the two wires that go up under the dash and not at the ones that come from the lock cylinder, correct. If you have the right resistance value, the security light will come on for two seconds and go out. If you have the wrong resistance value, the light will stay on steady like the service engine light until you turn the key off. When this happens, wait 5 minutes or more before trying another resistance value. This is because the VATS control module has a timer in it and must time out and re-set itself before another attempt can be made to start the car. BTW, I hope you didn't cut the yellow wires for the AIR BAGS.

 

No, the SRS goes thu its' sequence. When I had the airbag removed the SRS light would flash then stay on solid.

I managed to get it all back together.

I didn't get any fuelpump when grounding the single red wire by the relays. I stuck the VOM on it and got no voltage, key on or off.

Are the fusible links by the starter? Can I check them without jacking up the car?

 

Just grounding that red wire won't make the fuel pump work. You have to apply 12 volts positve DC to it and ground the negative wire to the negative post on the battery or a good ground on the frame or engine. Fusible links are on the starter solenoid and unless as skinny as spaghetti you will not be able to reach them unless the car is on jackstands or ramps.

 

OK, I can run 12volt fused to the single red wire that comes out of the harness near the relays. But what wire do I connect to ground? I see only one wire. Do I remove the fuelpump relay to get that wire to ground?

 

Just a thought.. This comes to mind, although I can't remember if it's true or not.. If you try to start the car X amount of times in X time.. doesn't it lock you out for like 15 minutes, and you can't start it until that time is up?

or something?

 

To rol1, when you are applying the 12 volts DC to the fuel test point, you should have a positive post and a negative post at your power source correct, connect the negative post of the power source to ground and the positive post to the fuel test point.

To MasterEvilAce, each time you attempt to start a VATS equipped car with the wrong code, it will lock you out for five minutes. If you continue to attempt to start the car before that five minutes is up, you will not be able to so regardless of whether you have the right code or not. For each attempt to start the car before that five minutes is up only adds another five minutes to the delay and adds to the frustration. If it doesn't start with the first code, chill out and take a five minute smoke break, read a book, or twiddle your thumbs. Then try the next code and hope for the best.

 

As far as I can tell, if no resister is present it doesn't go into security lockout. But when I hookup a resistor then the security light comes on.

If I turn it back on too soon the security light will still be on, even without the reistor, till the timeout passes and the security light is off, without a resistor connected.

I use the security light as an indicator of when to try a new resistance.

 

That is correct about the security light not coming on if there is no resistor in the circuit. That is because without the resistor there it is an open circuit.

 

This is by the driver's left knee above the fuse box. What is it? I've really had to crop a bad pic to get the size. I'll try to get a better pic later.

 

That is the remote dimmer module for your lights.

 

I have the 1 red wire coming out of the harness. Other than neg terminal to chassis ground what else is to be grouned?

Do I need to find another wire in the same place?

Is this the wrong wire?

 

That should be fine, apply the 12 volts DC from the car batteries positive post to that red wire and assuming that you have a good charge on the battery. You should have someone back at the gas tank to listen for the fuel pump to run when you touch that red wire with the battery cable. If it doesn't run, then you either have bad wiring or the fuel pump is shot.

 

What if he were to get a chip from a car that did not have VATS and used that. Do you think that would let him start the car?

 

Well, I heard nothing when I jumped 12volt to it. With the back seat flipped down and the carpet pulled up, is this the 3 wires to the fuelpump and guage?

 

:yes:

 

Would you happen to have the diagram for it? Is it a chassis ground or is one of wires a ground?

How would I know if the vats module were out?I still can't believe that I've missed with all the resistance values I've tried. When I read the codes all I get is 46. So the ecu is in good enough shape?

 

So my fuelpump is out? If I put 12volt to the red wire it should run the pump? I don't have to ground a wire from the relay connector to ground?

Where is the vats module, and what does it look like?

 

Fuel pump should be chassis grounded, but IIRC the wire from the pump to the chassis runs through the floorpan with the other 2. Purple is for the gauge, black is ground. The fuel pump power wire is gray. It should have 12v when the test connector has 12v. If so, you'll most likely have to pull the tank and change the pump, but check the ground first just in case.

A chip with VATS disabled would be a good thing to have....that way you could eliminate it as a potential cause. It won't fix a bad fuel pump though.

 

Just a thought.... I went through your old posts to see if maybe you were mistaking a tripped VATS for something else. My experience is this. If you turn the key and the sec light is off (open circuit) you have about half a second to get the right resistance hooked up or you've tripped it. the light won't be on, but it still won't work for another five minutes. Not sure if its true or not, but I believe that turning on the ignition before the five minutes are up will reset the 5 minute wait.

You should try a potentiometer (variable resistor). It is much easier than a boatload of resistors. What I did was this.

I have a bunch (like 6) broken alarm clock/radios. I literally throw them across the room and they shatter on the wall way too often for my own good, and my wife is sick of buying new ones. (I hate waking up LOL). I took one of there broken shells and a pair of pliers. Broke the board around its volume control. There will be three contacts. left, middle, right. Measure between left and right, and that is the max resistance that pot will do. measure between middle, and either left or right, and adjust the "volume" Watch the values until you reach one of the values in the VATS table. See where I'm going with this?

Solder (No don't be like me and use a lighter to melt a glob of solder on the board and wire, and only get one side on before you get frustrated and rig it all up with duct tape, you just end up with hot molten lead on your hands, it burns.) Use a soldering iron. Get 2 pigtails going, and wire it up to the two wires into the dash. Let it hang, make sure its not shorted, and fire it up. No go, remove your keylike mechanism, remove your potentiometer, adjust with the VOM to value 2. Wait 5 minutes. Try again. Once you can get the SEC light to turn on for 2 seconds, then turn off, you've found it. Duct tape it up and stick it under the dash. Never touch it.

Now get a regular key made.

If your clever you can use that to make your own handy dandy kill switch...

 

If you're really handy dandy with the right tools you can even make it into a test box with markings on the dial. Might take one or two potentiometers to make it work right.

 

Dug into some junkyard birds looking for the passkey module. That thing is way up in the dash and looks like the whole heater core has to come out to get to it.

I found a red 90 bird in the pic-a part yard with the key.

Does the ECM have to go with the key?

The passkey module too? Hope not.

Do I just change the chip module, memcall from the 92 to the 90 ECM

 

You only need the passkey Module, the Key & the lock cylinder. The pass key module is located on the firewall under the defroster vents on the drivers side of the center console.

 

On the 90 91 and 92 Firebird the passkey module is on the passenger side attached to the forward side of an airduct facing the firewall. That is about 5 inches above the heater core and seems to be impossible to get to without taking the dash and heater out.

It's one thing to smash thru airconditioning ducts to remove the module but to take everything apart and put it back together is to much. I could take the front of the dash off and cut the wireing harness splice the one from the junkyardback in and shove it up by the ECU.

So that leaves me with vats disabled chip. Is there some place that sells them? Most of what I've seen involves being able to burn your own chips and or add in boards. Can I just get a programmed memcal and plug it in?

I found out that my fuelpump wasn't bad. It had been changed before and the new unit is much quieter than the oem ones from the junkyard. I don't have a floorjack or jackstands so the tankremoval in the haynes manual didn't look like something I could do, so I used a hammer and a cold chisel and made a access flap and cut the tank lines and spliced them back with rubber fuel line.

 

I only had to remove 3 screw to get the front cover off the heater to get to the passkey module. Now the security light goes off like it should but still no start.

The starter enable relay for my 92 firebird isn't in the kick panel, but I found a 20/30 amp Bosch relay mounted just above the fuse block, in front of the flasher can. It has a light blue and double violet on terminal 30 and 87, and yellow and green on 85 and 86.

I have power on term 30. Neither 85 or 86 gets power when I turn the key. In past posts to test the relay a jumper from a to e would be what in the 92 color code? Would that be jumped term 30 to 87 or does 30 jump to 85 or 86 to energize the relay? I tried to jump from 30 to 87 and it did nothing, and then I tried to turn it over, nothing.

I also removed the rest of the alarm and relays for the door locks. There were 3 relays beside the original on the upper driverside kick panel.