Bill/T/D/Y

shoot all i find in the cadds is the old case style.Bolt holes oposite each other.

vorgath

hmmmm old case alternator you mean ? Did you look in '93 Cadillac Fleetwood's ?

Jeffrey Fontaine

Oh, TS, I thought of one more question. What size belt did you end up running (hopefully you're still running AC and the smog pump)?

Thanks

TexasSilhouette

iTrader: (4)

It's the stock belt, but it is tight as heck, I need to get one that is a little longer.

Bill/T/D/Y

Ok heres 1 for ya.Just picked up yesterady an alt that looks just like the 1 in my R/S and like the one in T/S's pix.And it says stamped into it 232A.And for all the world it isn't any bigger than my stock alt.Realy doubt could be lucky enough for it ta be the amp output.Prolly some stock #.Had ta use a pencil ta read the # .It has 2 rows of # 4 groups total.! set of 2 above the other set of 2.The 232 is in the bottor set on the left.My luck the dang things only an 85 amper.If it's got less than 105 it goes back!lol

vorgath

OK, like I said before

Use a wre brush to clean up the casting number ... in the casting number it will clearly say ... 140A ... if it doesn't .. it's not a 140A CS144

Oh yeah, and the 140A will have a plastic fan thingy .. not metal

Bill/T/D/Y

ok this is what i ment.

Bill/T/D/Y

see the 253 A by my thumb?Thats what was wonderin.Used ta the amp bein at the top row on old style alts.or is this a model#?

vorgath

I see what you mean, hmmmmm I know mine has several numbers on it ... it says 140A on either the first or second line .. but... it's on the very right .. so the last numbers on the first or second line should say ... 124 .. or 140

Is it a plastic fan ?

Bill/T/D/Y

nope metal but not original to the alt judgeing by the condition of the case as opposed to the condition of the fan/pully.And yea i'm used ta the amps being in the 1st or top section on the right too.Gonna pull the 1 in my c-ro prolly in the am after work and see how it reads,I forget havin slept since last i messed with it.

Bill/T/D/Y

hey V check out this stuff at advance auto.Maybe????
Brkt:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductG...make=CHEVROLET

Alt:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...ype=11&ptset=A

vorgath

Not sure about the alternator, however the bracket may very well be the one, how can I tell ? Because it's 50 DOLLARS !! Waow, that's ALOT for a bracket.

I checked it on mrgasket.com, it's not the correct bracket, it's for low mount alternators.
http://www.mr-gasket.com/ProductDeta...minselection=0

Bill/T/D/Y

don think it's the 1 we were lookin for but might work just as well.For 1 thing can ask advance if they have 1 on hand by the PN and go take a visual, my local lets me take out front and check at car.(offer ta leave DL if they don know ya personaly.)Also check the lists for the alts shows make model /yrs used in those may have simular bkts not after mkt that might work.Just an idea.I'm still lookin for mine being pass side makes it a pain in the butt.Bkts don xactly work well flipped upsidedown and backwards.LOL

Bigseth

iTrader: (11)

Nevermind. I didnt read the first page of the post it already had what I was going to say

Seth

Bill/T/D/Y

LOL cummon Seth spit it out everything helps at this point.LOL

Bigseth

iTrader: (11)

I was going to give the link from sethirdgen. And also that alternator above isn't a 140a. A 140a is bigger that a standard 105-120a cs alternator. There a a few different cars that use that alternator but the only difference is the clock position and the front halves of the case. One from a 97 WS6 will work the best. I believe it came on some camaros and some of the HD trucks around 95-97 IIRC. Its been a while since I sold auto parts tho. I sell POS Freightliner parts now. LOL
_2 cents_

Seth

Bill/T/D/Y

Yea thats not the 140 (the pic i posted)the 140 lhas the old style case where bolt holes are opposite each other.Thats 1 that seems to read as 253 amp which i think from size of the case is crap.But the 1 in the link i posted is a 140 or 130 amp forget without checkin my files again.but if ya look at the pic it seems to read as a 253 amp??Thinkin it's a part # tho.

Bill/T/D/Y

OK Vorgath.Just got back from bone yard.Found a 140 amp in a 1996 chevy Lumina van (even took one the identifier stickers off the van so wouldn't forget)The bolt holes for alt case are like almost 90 instead of 180 from each other.Fits right into my present bracket setup.Might need longer belt.But the bad news..Took it to autozone and it failed all tests.(insert cussing here).But I now have a case so plan to swap out the guts from my other 180 hole alt to this case.should be in bussiness.Also did some experimentin with brackets.If yers is set up like mine then may have figured out a backup plan.Will try ta get car yrs and pix of brkts for 180 hole setup on drivers side.
Also check out this thred.it may help.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...ing+alternator
Theres a butt load of links with helpful info.Like what other cars have this style alts ect.
If this works will post pics and stuff....Good luck bro...Bill

vorgath

If the voltage regulator is shot, yes that will cost a bit. However it may just need a cheap rebuild kit, maybe just the bushings, that would cost you 10-20 bucks.

Swapping out parts from one alternator to the other may not work, wasn't the other alternator smaller ?

Bill/T/D/Y

Nawww V .I took the guts out of the big old school 140 amper that i have out in the shed.It came from a caddy with dual V-belt pullys.Used to run it in the winter in my old F-100 for all the x-tra stuff i used back then.Electric winch,spot lights,elec heater (heater core blew up ).I had it tested b4 guttin it and it worked juuussttt fine,(insert BIG SMILE here).Since I have about 5 or 6 big old alternators sittin out there i realy not gonna be out anything.
The main thing i wanted if the alt was bad was the case so it could be rebuilt.Now if my quick swap didn't work i can still buy a rebuild kit and even potentialy upgrade this 1 to 180+ fairly cheaply.Gonna take pix of the case style today.oh yea the inside was the same.Onle diff was the brushs in the bad 1 were worn down more than the one i already had so swaped em out.Also snuck a lilbit of x-treme high temp silicate based grease in the rollerbearing cap since alot of the old lube fell out durring the swap.
If it works then will order the rebuild kit or 3 of em for down the road .

Bill/T/D/Y

OK excited update.Just got in from Advance and alt surgery was a success.Alt is actually puttin out better than 140 amps under load by their equipment.So time to find the digi cam and start pix as well as the install .Wonderin about belt size but will find out as i go.Already know i'll need to increase gage of wire off alt to batt due to higher amp output but was smart enuff when got alt to grab the connector and about 6 inchs of wire for referance.Will prolly go bigger than the lumina had stack for safty .
Wish me luck....Bill

Bill/T/D/Y

SUCCESS!!!!(insert lunatic happy dance here)Finished the install and everything works fine.Did have to get a longer belt took 2 trips to advance auto and still might go smaller.But this belt fits ok just a lil bit TO perfectly.
Belt parts # is 1000K6
6PK2540
It is an el-cheapo drive rite belt but the other 1 was like 27 dollars and this was 17 so since still a test mod goin with the penny pinching stuff right now.Still have to upgrade the wire to the batt from alt b4 it melts but 10 gage is ok for a few days.Will stop at the yard and pull thicker stuff soonest.
Finished the swap still useing factory brkts.Did have to drop the 1's attached to back of factory alt since the replacement is bigger but should be no issue there.It fits perfectly in the other brkts.
Fired right up and with highbeams on,4way flashers,heater blowin high(ac broken),Stereo cranked,amp on,borrowed sub flexxin CD hittin hard,needle didn't but barely move when bass hit at full output of head unit and amp.At idle!Steped out and threw the old batt/alt load tester which has 50 amp load test on it.At an idle ,not rpms up like testing at autozone,needle on tester read in green.Now mind you this is at idle with everything still on full blast highbeams and all.Had neighbor flip and hold switch(after i told him to watch hands cause tester gets hot as heck under load),watched needle in dash drop to 13 volts and hold there.Released switch and needle came back up to about 13.5/14 volts.Still have to run by autozone to have better test done and drive for awhile to realy test it out but htis is much better than stock.
Still some fine tuneing to do like replace wires .Should improve currant flow to batt and even increase alt output (so to speak)without the restriction of the smaller gage wire.
Pics ARE forthcoming.Have most in pc now and have to take final installed pics but it's dark now so waiting on daylight.Cams that cheap trust me.But will try to organize what i do have and get em posted.Will start another thred for it because theres alot and this one is so long now expecting to get smacked by the higher ups.

Jeffrey Fontaine

This won't help me, I forgot yours is a PS mount (non-serp). I did that swap on my Monte SS in the past. Still looking to speak with Black89WS6 about his swap on a serp. setup. The link you posted mentions grinding but some others say none is necessary. It may be worth a couple hours at Advance/Autozone going through the catalogs for all the different CS-144 models...

Bill/T/D/Y

Check the pic jeff it's serpentine.All 1 belt around the powersteering ,ac ,balancer ,smogpump(till i delete it),alt and tensioner.Mines just on the passenger side.Is yers 180 or 90?i figured out a brkt combo while at the yard and plan to go back to get the brkts and moke note of where/what they came from. So I have a back up incase this set up fails.It's easier to track down the 180 alt for me than the 90.
I wish mine was the olf V-belt setup or even the old dual belt style.I can work with that stuff this single belt stuff has ta be just right or ya have major run off issues that shread belts.
----------
pix of setup.https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...0-amp-alt.html

Jeffrey Fontaine

Hi Bill,
My apologies, I assumed since it was on the PS that it was the old V-belt style. Yes you are correct that its a serp. I still have to do a little more research for the V8 (DS) swap. Thanks for the pics, and keep us posted with your other bracket finds at the JY.

Bill/T/D/Y

oh hey Jeff when i was lookin for the belt for the new size asked about the iroc v-8 cyl belt and found out that for some reason it's actually smaller than the 6 cyl.woulda thunk it was bigger.Yers is 8?On the D/S? or P/S?And have ya checked the brkts on the old 8 cyl olds they used multi adjusting brkts for the power stearing assembly on the D/S on some models.Very much like the traditional style slotted ones for GM alt brkts.Slotted ect.I remember that 1 was 1 of those.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Update: I found out why most Caprice's and the like NEVER had this bracket. Their serpentine bracket had provisions for the larger case alternator. This bracket was in use on 3800 engines, which used the same alt/ps bracket that our 350's use. This combined with the large case alt (124 and 140 are the same case size, I do believe) should be a drop in fit. I'm curious as well about the grinding needed. Will have the bracket in a week or so to find out.

racerd146

has any one done this swap to a 3.1 v6?

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

The V6's use a different serpentine setup than the V8's. Get second case style CS144, and it becomes a direct bolt in. I got one out of a 99 Yukon Denali, but I needed the first case style.

Bill/T/D/Y

For what it's worth, do a quick check under my name for posts and ya should find where another member and I did a buncha research on this swap and where I took pix of my 90 3.1 when I did it.I think I may have even included somewhere the parts # for the replacement serpentine belt I ended up useing where I still have the smog pump hooked up even tho not functional.I think we even posted a list of vehicles that have the same size/style case for bone yard searchs.If ya still have no luck just holla and I'll try ta dig the info out of my files and happily pass it along.Good luck....Bill

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

You need one from the column "CS144 Late." You might be able to use your stock belt, but if not you should change the alt in front of an Autozone/Checker/etc. so if you do need a new belt, you can go in, buy a new one, and if it doesn't fit, return it and keep trying.

I also have a Late Case CS144 I'd part with for $45 + Shipping. It's been tested and verified that it works. It's decently clean, but does have a small amount of surface rust on the pulley.

jstuart83

don i saw a post about retrofitting alts i have an 87 gta with the l98 is there a cs144 that will fit my car without alot of mods i have a v belt set up one guy said he got one off a 96 chevy lumina van and he said it would work what are your thoughts

jstuart83

i have an 87 gta with the l98 with the v belt set up on all the belts except the alt which application did you say was a direct bolt in for our engines

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

On an 87 I dunno. The late case style will fit, if you have removed the AIR system. It won't with it still in place, which could be a problem with putting a CS144 on either the 305 or the 350 82-87.

jstuart83

when you say late style do you mean a newer car like the 99 yukon you spoke about

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Yes. If the AIR wasn't in the way, I could have installed that alternator into place. There might have been a way to get it to fit, but I was frustrated and car-less, so I just bought another CS130.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Update:

I got the 124 amp setup. 1988-1992 Camaro serpentine driver's side bracket with an adapter bracket that goes in place of the alternator. The downside? This adapter bracket is designed specifically for the 124 amp alternator. Which is why people have to grind the alternator to make it fit. I didn't want to grind the alternator. When my JY alt dies, I want to be able to go to Autozone, and get another one. So I cut on the bracket. Might have weakened it structurally a little bit, but I don't think where I cut it matters.


This is a 140 amp CS144.


This is it's little brother. The 124 amp CS144.

Note how on the 140 amp case, it seems that they added round supports onto the angular corners from the 124? That's why the 140 won't fit the 124 bracket. I'll up pictures tomorrow of the clearancing. I can say this though, that Power steering pump/alternator bracket clocks in at thirty something pounds. It's a heavy b****.

jstuart83

thats great news cant wait for the pictures i made a cs144 work on my gta but i had to do extensive modifactions to the housing im like you i would rather be able to go to autozone and get a new one if needed thanks for the info

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

The whole assembly:
All shiny grade 10,9 hardware. Woo woo.

Just the alt in the bracket:


I had to do some clearancing on the actual serpentine bracket to get the beast to fit, not too much metal taken off. There's a squarish edge on this ear, just round it out and it works.


Clearer pic of area:


Originally, I saw the brace hitting the alt in one place:

I used a cut off wheel, and kept cutting until the alt fit. But it never happened. I cut a lot deeper than I needed to, thinking it was still hitting. Where it was hitting was over here:


I also cut too deep here, because the alternator fit a little bit better, and I thought it was still hitting AGAIN. It was actually hitting here:




As you can probably tell, I cut too much there too, and it probably weakened the bracket the most, but I'm not worried. There's two huge bolts right in that area. It's not going anywhere.

Anyways, that's all the cutting I had to do. I used a fiberglass reinforced dremel cut off wheel, and I wish I had some of that dye you use to see where the stuff was hitting. Would have made my life easier. But those are the four things you'll have to clearance. I'd recommend going at it less than I did and getting it nice and snug.

WinnipegGTA

I haven't personally looked but how do these CS144 get mounted in the '93 Cadillac Fleetwoods. They use the L05 engine which is the same as a L03 in our cars. Curious as how they have them mounted up in there. And from every where ive looked that is the only Alternator option availible. So i you see a 93 Fleetwod it should have the CS144 140amp version

BretD 88GTA

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried the PowerMaster 140 amp alt.? It uses the CS130 case, so it's a direct fit for our cars. No hassling hunting down brackets or modifying them.

Both Summit and JEG's carry them.
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...0002_313394_-1

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Every time I get word on a Fleetwood being anywhere, the engine was gone ages ago. As far as I know, they have a special alt/ps bracket that was designed to fit the alternator. If you go to your GM parts department, they should be able to pull up a picture of the thing. I gave up on waiting for one.

The downfall of the CS130 case alternator isn't it's low output. It's easy to overheat. The CS130D fixed this and is far superior (and I think a direct bolt in) but I followed the go big or go home philosophy. That, and a 140 amp CS130 will heat up a LOT, and we don't have much airflow under our hoods....

BretD 88GTA

I talked with a PowerMaster rep. one year at SEMA and specifically asked about the overheating concern. He told me they had addressed that by making some modifications.

I'm just wondering if anyone had tried the PowerMaster alt. to see if they indeed are more resistant to overheating. I'd like to buy one to replace my stock 105 amp.

The_Phoenix

iTrader: (3)

Has anybody tried the CS144 extreme duty . The only difference compared to the other CS144's is that it has dual rectifiers:





Later,
Phoenix

The_Phoenix

iTrader: (3)

I purchased a CS144 alternator brace from a 93 caprice today at my local JY. Just needs some cleaning up and some paint and its ready to install right in the exact same bolt holes as our stock units. The good thing about it is I won't have to grind anything since the alt. mount is wider than our units which allows for a perfect fit for the alternator. Thought I'd just let you guys know.

Later,
Ruben

The_rabbit1

Um, I'm going to take a wild, off the wall guess and say that it won't fit.

Arvizu9618

iTrader: (1)

I have the same setup as TexasSilhouette minus the smog pump.

So I have a CS144 late (Basically direct fit), A/C, tensioner, Harmonic, water pump and P/S

The Serpentine belt that is needed is 980K6

Hope this helps somebody.

Art

mrrman

Great link....I grabbed an alternator out of a truck to...it was posted from another site, I think it was from a Tahoe...still have to swap out the pulley since I have the high effeicency ones

rwstegne

What P/N alternator did you use? I have a CS144 and don't see any way to do this.

This is the Cs144 I purchased.
ToughOne Alternator - Remanufactured - 140 Amps Part No. P8112-4.3

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/t...ontent=general

Is there a different P/N alternator that has different mounting locations?

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

There are two cases for CS144 alternators. 180* bolt holes, and like 100* bolt holes. You clearly bought the 180* case. Look for a '98 GMC Yukon with the 350 and 140 amp alternator.