vorgath

I got a CS144 alternator, from a '93 Cadillac Deville, my car's a '91 RS, with serpentine setup.

What do I need as far as parts or modification, grinding whatever, to make the alternator work for my car ?
.
.
.
.
.

Corky

Read thru this article. It gives a good description on how the CS alternators function.
Delco-Remy CS-130 Type Alternator Service Manual
Corky

vorgath

I meant, the mounting process.

Does one need a different bracket to mount the CS144 alternator ? And if so, which cars can the bracket be taken from ? Does the back casing need any grinding, what about the spacer ?

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

There's a bracket you can buy from GM that mounts it perfectly. Dyno Don has one. Ask him for the part number.

vorgath

So I DO need that actual bracket ? Well in that case, any info as to which cars that bracket was used on ? Considering I spent 20 bucks on the alternator, will buy a new brush set, and a new serpentine belt, I don't feel like spending a whole 50 bucks on a bracket, you know what I mean, more than o nthe entire alternator assembly ?

Bill/T/D/Y

Ok heres a link some one dirrected me to when i was researchin the same info.Thanx again to that person(i've slept since then so don remember who it was.)But the link gets into great detail and has good pix as well.It's like a "Dummys guild to..".


CS-144 Conversion for your thirdgen


It is off site (Hope no one takes offence to that.) But like I said it's awsome.

vorgath

Thanks. That's the link I already had though, I don't suppose anyone has any more info regarding the brackets ? Seriously no way I'll spend 50 dollars on a simple bracket, if I can find one from a donor car, especially since 50 bucks would be more than the alternator cost me. Question is .. WHICH cars had that bracket ?

Bill/T/D/Y

called dealership 2day.Brackett is 70+$$ and it came on 90-94 ish caddys with 6 cyl.Also another gm thinkin it was caprice i imagine same yr time frame.I'm tearin up all my local yards from nashville to elkton KY lookin 4 one myself.If i find one i'll send the info.However i did some xperementin at 1 yard with bracketts on a c-ro with same engine/brkt as mine now and found 1 that was close just had pullies too far forward.So thinkin about grabbin 1 or 2 and a spare alt and doin sum cuttin and grinding.Thinkin along either shavein the brkt or the bolt sections on alt maybe both.The other brkt is linger and bolts up to all the same areas as mine does.just longer and mine uses studs not bolts to block.


P.S. I get the brkt at local yard for about 10.00 and alt for about 11.00.will update soon as have these and see what blows up.Plan ta get a smaller pully for the swap and prolly the current setup .

vorgath

Thanks for the info. That page claimed earlier Caddies, but you say it may also be the 90-94 V6's ? If so that means more options. I plan on hitting the junkyards maybe next week or so and grab several brackets.

Waow, 70 bucks now for the bracket, brand new ?

Hmmm I got the alternator of a '93 Caddie actually, but it was a V8 one, a Deville.

Bill/T/D/Y

And I'll bet the alt was right up top dead center the engine .The yreas are what the local caddy dealership gave me.I'm takin a long hard look at the camaro-T/A-Firebird setups.There are longer support bkts but they need mods.Since i still have smog and ac theres limits to my relocation choises.

vorgath

Another reason why I don't want to pay full prize for the bracket, is because it'll be in a temporary location too. Later on I intend to delete my A/C, delete my power steering, and relocate the alternator down where the power steering is right now, and reroute the entire system.

Hmmmm actually you may be right, I believe the alternator was located right on top, it was a transverse mounted V8 in the Cadillac.

Bill/T/D/Y

yea thats what i got my 140 from.Just playin hell findin a new brkt.And i don wanna pay 70.00 for the brkt if i can find it salvage.Yeaaaaa i'm cheap.Gone to check another yard right now.Tryin ta find out first if i need an oversized pully or undersized one to overdrive my currant alt.

vorgath

Any luck finding one ?

I'm going hunting tomorrow at the junkyards

Bill/T/D/Y

Nope none yet.However I been lookin at the posted info on this swap.And the alt in the pic is on the drivers side mines on the passenger side.Also noticed the assembly pictured stock is different than mine so wonderin if the new brkt will work.Am currently thinkin of pickin up a scrap brkt off a 8 cyl and doin some ******* enginering to it.Maybe shave down a bit and the same on the spare alt case i have in the shed see if i can build my own.If i shave them i know i'll have to do some shiming to alighn the bely right but not anything i haven't done b4 like when i put the 3 wire chev alt in my ford truck or the 1 wire in the ford tarus.Just being lazy.What i have done as a quick fix till i get off my **** is overdrive the alt.I removed the pully and took it found a slightly smaller pully at the yard.(3bucks)And i do mean SLIGHTLY SMALLER.LIKE 1/32 SMALLER.Right now I'll prolly be doin the yard hunt for an alt for the blazer.(01 or 02 i forget.)The wife went to start in this mornin and batt was dead.Batt is 3 weeks old and 750 amps 6sumthin cca so there is no reason unless daughter left sumthin on for it to be dead.So off to A/Z the get it charged /tested/replaced and same for charge system.So if i hit the yards will be popin hoods all day checkin out all models for a bkt to use/modify.....Bill

vorgath

Damn, sorry to hear about your battery problem, know how that's like .. nooo fun ....

I'll let you know how my hunt goes today

vorgath

I had NO luck what so ever finding a bracket. I actually believe the bracket may rather be found on '80's Eldorado's, with the V-belt setup

vorgath

Checked on GM Parts Direct, using the part number for the bracket, I got the following info:


Chevrolet Caprice 1991-1996 1991 Support, Alternator Front

Bill/T/D/Y

Cool now it's just a matter of FINDING THE BLESSED THING.

vorgath

Exactly, Pick Your Parts here well I didn't even see but maybe one or two Caprice's, so I'm going to Ecology next, maybe now on Wednesday.

Bill/T/D/Y

Guess i'll do a check at nashvilles pull-a-part online first for either the caddys in that time frame or the caprices same as.I imagine it's still the 6 cyl versions altho i'll check the 8's as well.If i find anythin i'll holla.Good luck.

vorgath

I was looking into some things and.. when exactly.. did Cadillac even make six cylinder vehicles ? They had something called hmm Fleetwood Sixty something.. but that was just another V8 model ?


I looked at tons and tons of different parts, different years for Cadillacs, and still the only bracket/brace that matched the part number, was what they called 1991 Caprice bracket.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

did you search on the forum?
I did it, albeit with a v-belt setup, no fancy brackets needed at all.
If you can find my post, you'll find a schwack of info, including discussion on how to with a serp setup. (IIRC).

vorgath

I seem to recall it yes, however all the info led back to the one bracket, and what I'm trying to do, is finding the bracket rather than buying it for 60 bucks.

Especially since later on I'll probably remount everything anyway once I get rid of the A/C and power steering.

Bill/T/D/Y

Same here however my alt is on the pass side not drivers.So thinkin in the longrun may have to fab my own bkt.Do plan to stop by the yard this weekend and see whats what.

vorgath

hmmm yeah for you it may be a completely different bracket

Mine's listed not asa bracket, but as a brace, however I haven't found one 91-96 Caprice at any junkyard.

Bill/T/D/Y

Ahhhh we'll get it eventually.When I get mine nailed down i'll stick sum pix up.Holla later .

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

It's '89-'91 Caprice....the reason Caddy is included is because they put 350 chevy motors in them.
That bracket was $20..I guess they found out what we are doing with them. Ha Ha

Jeffrey Fontaine

But either way, we are in agreement that grinding needs to be done on a typical DS serpentine Camaro mounting, as in the link "Bill/T/D/Y" provided? I'm just trying to put the pieces together. Also, I'm not sure why the belt size (in that link) would change since you reuse your old pulley, don't you?

Why would the Caprice/Caddy's need this piece since the alternator they used was still the standard 5 1/4" case CS 130, correct? And if they did use the 6" case CS144, then why do we need to grind on it? I think that grinding proves that 91/92 B4C Camaro's never got a 140 amp alternator either. "I'll believe it when I see it".

Cheapest I could find online was $42+ $10 shipping through GMPD.

Bill/T/D/Y

Well I dunno but can see the mods being done to cop cars due to the extra load (light bar,ect.)But the belt size would change due to the repositioning of the pully.(new bracket and bigger case on the alt.)And the case on the 140 i have here at the house is actually bigger than the old alt in my malibu or the daughters cutlas.(which will be upgraded once my toys done)
looks like the grinding was done on the case to allow a slightly lower angle for the alt to sit in the brkt.Also consider that the brkt seems to be coming on 8 cyls.And the install is goin on a 6 cyl.That may explain some mods.
Myself I have yet to hands on this bracket and since the link shows it installed on the drivers side it may not actually work for my aplication due to the fact that my alt is on the passenger side. I'm ready to get out the old grinder and make my own brkts.

vorgath

The Cadillac's had the alternator mounted right on top, of a transverse V8, completely different setup.

Jeffrey Fontaine

I'm not sure who's comment that is in response to. It appears from the pictures that the grinding needs to be done due to the brackets under the alternator on our cars, not the bracket that is taken off the Caprices. I had wondered why it was necessary if they fit together on the B-bodys. Hope that makes sense...

vorgath

I know what you mean. Now this is how it is though ..

The website listed the bracket, it wasn't sure which Caprice's it came from, I simply cross referenced it at gmpartsdirect.com and it listed it as the 91 Caprice brace.

I've heard that you can either grind the bracket, or the alternator it self.


Only explanation I can come up with is *shrugs* that the actual bracket on the Caprice with the alternator/combo works fine due to the original Caprice bracket, while ours may move the brace somewhat ??

Bill/T/D/Y

LOL ok guys not bein a smart@$$ but if ya read this part of the info

" First thing you will need to do is aquire the parts. Here are the part numbers:
Bracket: 10118722
Alternator: 10463338
It was beleived that the alternator and bracket were from the "B4C" Camaros, but actually, the bracket was used on early model Caprices and Cadillac Eldorados to upgrade to a 120 Amp alternator. These parts can be obtained from any GM dealer or any online source that sells GM parts. You will also need some hardware (bolts and nuts) to fit the alternator to the bracket. I don't remember the sizes I used, but when I find out, I'll update.

Since these two parts were never designed to go together, some modifications are required. The casing on the mammoth CS-144 is to big for the support bracket, so some grinding must be done for it to sit in the bracket. Its better to remove some from the casing, then it is to remove from the support. You only need to remove maybe a 1/16 of an inch. You'll have to test fit untill both bolt holes line up. This is actually the bottom of the alternator, so you won't see it when your done."

It explains that the bkt wasn't actually desighned for this application.And thats why the grinding/mod.Well I kinda missed it too.(kicks self)

Hey Vorgath???Think thats why we keep missing the brkt?We have been lookin 4 alt bkts and not just bkts?Next trip I'll be checkin out EVERY bkt on the cars I look at.I also took a real close look at the pix on the link and have an even better idea now of what I'm lookin for.It's not realy flat like the genaric alt bkts for chev alts.It's almost like a cradel like the bkts that hold the alts on the caddys we looked at.Ya know the ones with the alt on top?
LOL@self.ok armed with what i hope is a better grasp for what i'm lookin for I'm back off to the yards with a "I'm a dumb-@$$ look on my face.

vorgath

Yes, at first it looked like a flat bracket, but yes it does look more like a craddle.


What you just posted is exactly what I meant though, I wouldn't be surprised if the actual alternator bracket for the Caprice is different from ours, and the part we're looking for is the add-on brace. Our setup may cause it to be angled somewhat different or something.


If you look at 91-96 Caprice, you'll find the part # not listed as a bracket, but as a BRACE.



However like I said before, I have NO CLUE what so ever as to what we need from a Cadillac ??

Bill/T/D/Y

might be the same app on a caddy.When i talked to the dealer(caddy) and gave em the pn they found it and it was 70.00.So I dunno .I do realize that whatever it is it is a modification and that means just what it implies.Modify.
Boy this is fun.NOT.LOL

Jeffrey Fontaine

I have read that part of the article. I was making my comment based on the fact that a '94 Caprice came optional with a 140 amp alternator (according to AZ online), and Vorgath said the bracket came up as 91-96 Caprice (while I do know that Dyno Don said 89-91, so that may be the reason).

vorgath

Oh it was an option, not standard, on the Caprice ? That would explain it.

weberflorida

iTrader: (2)

Dude Vorgath the giants are playing the cowboys and I hope that the cowboys get there *** kicked!! LOL!! Hey are we still goign to the junkyard right before new years?

TexasSilhouette

iTrader: (4)

I have a CS-144 on my 91 bird.
Used the stock bracket and modified the stock support on the back.

I had to elongate the small bolt hole (toward the water neck).

My alternator is dang close to the hood, I'm not sure it would clear if I had added the bracket.

vorgath

Ha ... Giants .. ha !!!


TexasSilhouette, what modifications did you have to do to the support, any pics ?

Bill/T/D/Y

Hey yea T/S pix would be a boon.Vorgath and me been rackin our (for lack of a better word)brains tryin ta track this down.Alco is yer setup on the D/S or PASS/S??

weberflorida

iTrader: (2)

Dude that sucks!! Oh yeah you and my ***** make for a good couple. Just joking. Well anyways let me know when you want to go look for the brackets. Later

Bill

TexasSilhouette

iTrader: (4)

Z28guy83

i just have a question why not just use a 100 amp alternator from a k5 blazer ?

vorgath

Our stock alternator is already 100 amp, however it's only like 70 at idle, also it's more prone to overheating due to it's small size.

TexasSilhouette

iTrader: (4)

These CS-144s kick ***. I can turn on every electric device in my car on and still hang at an idle. I'm considering a larger pully for it just so it does not spin so hard when it does not need to.

Bill/T/D/Y

shoot mines a 105 amp and still pulls down on the run with my aftermarket system kickin.Also my luck T/S's set up is drivers side and close mounting studs.My case is the old style with bolts opposite sides.Where/what car did ya find that alt in T/S .and TYVM for da pix....Bill

vorgath

Easiest car to find it on, is the later Cadillac's, I got mine from a '93, the alternator is mounted on top, and you can easily clean off the dirt to read the casting numbers before you remove it, it will say 140A if it's a 140 amp one.

For a full list, do a search for CS144 on Ebay Motors, one of the ads list a rebuild kit, and it'll list all the cars that came with the CS144 alternator.

TexasSilhouette

iTrader: (4)

I bought it brand new (not rebuilt) from Texas Alternator and Starter Service. $112 shipped I think.

Jeffrey Fontaine

Thanks TS, I'll have to take a look now, armed with those pictures!