I'm sorry for bothering everyone, but I'm trying to avoid getting most of this stuff done processionally, partly because I'm just another teenager who's going to college in a month (University of Texas ), but mainly because I've always loved 3rd generation f-bodies a lot, and won't to know them like the back of my hand, and love to work with it.

BUT BACK TO THE POINT ANYWAYS! I'm having a wiring problem, and basically none of my blinkers work, none of my lights in the rear, and most notably, the hatch is broken form being slammed :x (but I'll read some tuts on how to fix this). I followed the bulk of wires which led to the front of the middle console and all came out there. Below is a picture of what I'm left with. (Sorry about quality. My phone is my camera :x)


I'm guessing what is circled in red is all the wiring that leads to the taillights . However, I'm stumped where these wires are supposed to go from there. My only guess is the wiring harness pointed to with the yellow arrow, though I wasn't sure if this was the wiring harness for the radio or not, because I can't find that one either . Any clarification on this?

Also, I'm a bit confused with what these two orange and black wires (circled in green) are for/from. It LOOKS like they are attached below the emergency brake, and I'd pull up the center console to look, however now is not a very good time, as the Ebrake doesn't work, and I'm parked on a slope w/ the car in 1st gear. It doesn't seem to want to come off easily.. and I'd rather not risk pulling it out of first.

Also, the yellow and blue wires (circled in blue) are cut, go-figure. I was just wondering what these were supposed to be hooked up to? (my only guess is the orange/black wires).

And LASTLY.. I have some random 3-way switch underneath my gauge clusters that had some red wires coming out of it. Picture below:

That's what it looks like from the back of the cluster. The line all the way on the left is broken. The middle is attached along the driver door, splitting into two wires. One wire was broken near the battery, the other goes back into the firewall, but I'm not sure where it goes. And the last position of the switch is untouched.

I know it's asking a lot, so don't feel inclined to have to answer to all of them, or any of them for that case. ANY help whatsoever would be greatly appreciated though!

 

Welcome to thirdgen.org

Looks like someone did a job on the wiring there

It will help in future questions if you identify your car by model and years as the wiring and wire colors changed occasionaly. You might also want to visit this link and get the wiring diagrams for your car....

http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us...rInfoPages.htm

Ok it looks like your car is missing the convinence center. This item held a number of relays, such as the turn signal flasher, the hazzard flasher, the horn relay, etc. It would be mounted under the dash to the left of the console just above the driver's right knee. See the attached page below. Note the view in the page is from the front of the car, looking through the dash.

As for the wires in your red circle they may be the following, heading to the convinence center and other points behind the dash....

YELLOW -- left hand turn and hazard signal
LIGHT GREEN -- Back up lights
LIGHT BLUE -- Brake lights
DARK GREEN -- Right turn and hazard signal

I cannot make out the other wire colors in the circle -- it would be helpful if you could identify them.

I don't see it in your red circle, but BROWN should be the wire color for the rear side markers, license plate lamps, and two tail lamps on each side.

Note that BLACK is usually the ground wire, but not always. The ground for the rear lights is a BLACK wire that is attached to the end panel in the rear of the car. So it won't be run to the front of the car.

In the 82 cars, the emergency/parking brake had one wire connected to it, a TAN/WHITE wire. So I am not sure what the ORANGE and BLACK wires are for in your green circle. Is your hatch release powered? If so, the ORNAGE and BLACK wires may be associated with that.

I also am not sure what the YELLOW and BLUE wires are for in the blue circle. It is possible they are associated with the blower motor speed switch.

So let us know the year and model of your car and maybe we will be able to help you identify all those wires.

Dave

 

wow thanks for all the help Dave! As for the car, it's a 1988 Firebird. I'll throw my specs up on a page after replying to the post.

I went lurking through the forum to find out some wiring diagrams, and ?I found those two from autozone from the sticky that had helped quite a bit too. The only problem with the color-coded wiring diagram that I had, was it seems like there was a bit of sire splicing going on in the car. There were 7 colors that went from the taillights (2 yellows (one was thicker than the other), light green, red w/ white stripe, brown/black?, light blue, and a deep-green turquoise).


Then, the wad of wires all taped together that came up from the center console in the previous pictures had quite a few changed colors, but still 7 wires (light green, dark green (both of these were connected together, and the darker green is not to be confused with the previous.. turquoisish color green), two grays, a light beige (the beige and one of the grays were connected), yellow (looks like the thinner yellow from the previous picture), and a black/brown).


So it seems like the colors have been changed up a bit, so I wasn't sure how far that wiring diagram would get me. Also, I'll show you what the wiring looks like behind the taillights.

It's a bit.. messy looking, as there is a random splice that I don't know if it was factory or not, and one of the wires is cut. Later on the path to the middle console, the hosing job also becomes a duct-tape job, so that sounds like it might've been tampered with to begin with. And lastly notable from the picture, is there is that one yellow wire marked in green that follows ALONG the wad of other wires leading to the console. It doesn't join with them, but rather follows along, not covered in duct tape. I haven't been able to lead this wire anywhere yet, as I still have the middle console in atm, but it doesn't look like it feeds out with the remaining wires.

As for the convenience center, is that where this comes along:

It was about the area you said it would be, so I wasn't sure if this was where I'd wire things to it or not. It's shown in the first picture wit ha yellow arrow pointing at it.

Thanks for all the help! I've read through the rules and guidelines and understand that you shouldn't post more than three pictures unless it's for helping reasons. I figured this might've helped SOMEONE.. at least understand a bit better how the wiring works, but if anyone has a problem with it, I'll throw up a few links instead.

 

That last picture is the ALDL computer diagnostic port.

 

Thanks. I'll see if I can do a bit of searching to see what I'm supposed to wire that up with.

EDIT: After further study, I guess I'm supposed to plug the ALDL receptacle there. Guess I better do some more digging around to see if I can find this

EDIT2: Further investigation has brought me to these three convincing receptacles. I guess I'll dig a bit more in depth to see where they lead, but they are all balled up and stashed away as if they were nothing important.. I'll just add links to save page-space, as they don't seem very important atm..

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...8/DSC00637.jpg
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...8/DSC00638.jpg

EDIT3: And lastly, here are a few pictures without most of the dash. I can't quite tell from the attached image earlier what the convenience center is.. but here is all that I'm left with..





EDIT4: Ok, so I pulled up the carpet, had and ya.. things are quite a bit clearer now. Under the driver door panel (AND carpet, along with a black area) was the wiring to the taillights, along with an extra light pink wire, and a light brown wire with a white stripe down it. These two lines split from the rest and go behind the back seats, and lead under the car somewhere.. MY GUESS is to the fuel, but that's not important for now. I guess I'll continue following up these taillight wires up the driver-side dash and see where they lead to.

As for that cluster of wires (circled in red in the first picture), I now have NO idea what those are for, but it's SOMETHING having to do with the middle console or something underneath it.

And lastly (once again), those wires I circled in blue from the first picture are speaker wires. The yellow/black ones are to the left channel back speakers, and the dk/lt blue wires are to the right channel. So ya.. I REALLY feel like an idiot now, but I guess it's all in a learning process..

 

Looking at your behind-the-taillight picture, I suspect that the brown wire that's been cut is the original taillight wire that comes from the steering column (in the whole bundle) and that the cut it where you're seeing the yellow wire attached to the brown wire (and taped up). It could be that they were trying to bring the electricity to the taillights through the yellow wire instead of the stock brown wire. Maybe a "mod"? Is there maybe an extra switch in the center console that would send juice to the yellow wire?

Btw, if you're staying in/around Austin, we have a local branch here, the ATGO. If you need, we have a diagram page there under the Tech DB section.

Lou

 

well, atm I've found out that the one thing I need to fix before all else, is my fuse problem. Basically, there's a short somewhere in my system, and looking at a wiring diagram, I'm THINKING it might be in the Turn/Hazard Switch.. which I guess is located in the convenience center. I still can't say that I know what the convenience center is, or where exactly. That attached sketch of the location is a bit tough for me to recognize, but I'm ripping apart the dash little by little so I might be able to find something valuable. If I'm retarded and the Convenience Center is in one of my examples, can someone point that out to me .

Thanks everyone, I'm off to look at it some more

 

holy f, TAshifter you have one hell of a butch job there, my prayers are with you.

i just wanted to say thanks alot for the second to last pic you posted, the one of the pedal setup. ive been trying to find a pic of that area for a while for my 5speed conversion and here it is!

sorry, but i cant help too much other so say that the orange wire, where the radio is supposed to go is for the lighter.

 

haha... ohhh i know. I'm in neck-deep quicksand atm.. And I'm glad my picture could be of your assistance . And ya.. I WILL need some kind of miracle to get out of this one, I'll be needing those prayers

As for my current results, I took out my middle console annnd... I feel like I've just been going around in a HUGE loop. Can someone tell me WHAT this is or WHAT it should be hooked up to!?! I've been looking for the stereo wiring harness too, and first saw this and kind of got excited, but ya.. that's def not it.. :x


You remember my first picture when I ask what those orange and black wires are for? Well.. I still don't know, but at least I know that they weren't hooked up to anything, YET. Also, In the first picture, those wires I circled in the red I guess.. led to NOWHERE once again, as seen in this last picture.

Hah, as everyone can tell, any advice would be helpful for THIS job :x Thanks for all the patience with such a noob electrician

EDIT: scratch that.. I guess the orange/black lines are for a light in the console? hah, ya, it seems like common sense, but this is the first time I've seen the car, or been in a 3rd gen. So I have no idea where different lights/wires are. I'm still not sure if that's what they are for or not..?

 

TAshifter88

Man you have been busy today. The third photo in you 10:10am post is the "Convinenct Center". The large box at the front (right side of photo) is the Audio Alarm assembly....buzzes for key left in ignition with driver's side door open, seat belts not fastened, etc. The center relay is the Horn relay, powers the horn when you press the center of the steering wheel for the horn. The round realy at the left side is the hazard flasher relay. The turn signal realy should be mounted on a bracket above the convinence center.


In your 4:45pm post the connector shown is for the Gear Selector Switch, which means you have an auto transmission. The large yellow and purple wires let you start the car only if it is in park or neutral. The orange/black and black/white wires are an input to the ECM for gear position. The blue and light green wires are for the back up lights. The connector should plug directly into the switch, whcih should be mounted on the left (driver's) side of the auto shift lever.

The console lamp will be power by a gray wire (+12v) and a black wire (ground).

The orange and black wires at the bottom of the photo could be for several items including orange (+12v) for analog clock or powered hatach release, black (ground) for clock or feed to hatch release solenoid. The solenoid would be in the rear. The release button was usually mounted on the console for camaros. I am not sure where it was for TAs.

I haven't had a chance to look at the rest of your photos or questions. Time for bed, as work comes early tommrow.

Dave

 

wow... that's quite a handful there Dave . Thanks for all your time!

Ya, now's not teh best time for me to get up and look at it yet, I've got school. But when I get home ,I'll give that all a checkup.

Besides that, I'm just STUMPED completely now, as it's a standard.. but I guess it may have started off as a manual??

I don't know, we'll see more info in a little bit. Thanks again.

 

If you found the auto shifter connector in your center console, that would most likely mean that somebody pulled the automatic and put in a 5-sp. And since the connector is not hooked up to anything, the car shouldn't even start. Unless they performed another hack job and spliced into the wires somewhere under the dash.

The thick yellow and purple wire on that switch are for the starter. The yellow comes from the ignition cylinder and is energized when you turn the key to start, the purple one goes to the starter. If they are not connected, the car won't even turn over. They should go to the clutch safety switch.

The orange/black and black/white is the neutral switch, as Dave already pointed out. And he's right about the blue and green wires too. If you have a new chip in the ECU that is for a 5-sp vehicle, you can ignore the orange/black and black/white wires.

If you were anywhere close to me, I'd offer a helping hand but don't know where you are (your profile is completely empty).

May the force be with you.
Lou

 

hah, funny you ask. I'm actually living in The Woodlands, TX (just north a ways above Houston), and am actually enrolled up at UT in Austin for this summer. I'm moving up there May 28th, so I was planning on getting everything needed on this car done ASAP so it's fixed up before I leave. I admit, I don't know much about cars YET, so I got this project to get to know them better. My friends work in shops and help when needed, but it's just not the same unless you do the bulk of the work and learn from it. It's certainly making me appreciate it more anyways

Hah, but back on topic, I'll head on outside real quick and take a look at what I have. The wiring is f*ed as far as the taillights go, but the front blinkers/hazards don't work either, so I'm thinking a relay or turn/hazard switch is messed up. I saw one relay in the upper-right of the hood (can't put a name on what it was yet), that had the wires cut a good cm back, and the wires were hurdled over one another.. metal touching metal, so I'm sure I'll have to open up quite a few relays to give those looks at just in case. I'll post up anything if I find something. Thanks everyone

 

From time to time, we have a CFD (Car Fix Day) here in Austin so if you want to join us, bring the car and I'd sure look at it. I like a challenge. You sign up on ATGO and see when the next one is and of course post.

I feel for you and your car but it's very good that you want to learn. If you have good diagrams and know how to read/use them, it's not a big problem to troubleshoot the wiring. Of course, it also helps to know where each component is located.

With that said, let's jump to the relays: there should be at least two relays on the firewall on the driver side. One for the fuel pump, one for the electric fan. If you have a MAF sensor on the V6 (I really don't know the 6-cylinders), you'd have two more relays (MAF and burn-off). Sometimes (mostly on some 'birds), the relays are moved to a fender, behind headlights.

You can usually easily identify a relay by its wires. Just look at the diagrams and compare wire colors. That'll tell you which relay you're looking at.

Did you find any fried wires under the dash or in the center console? That would be worse than a hack job.

Does the car run at all? Did it run before?

Btw, you keep talking about tail-light harness and center console. The tail-light harness goes from the dash down under the driver A-pillar, by the door, over the wheel well and ends up in the trunk on the driver side. It should not go through the center console at all. Just wanted to clarify that.

Lou

 

hah, ya, as you can see here, I did a number with my interior to see exactly what wires are going where.

I cleaned a few relays out (the ones in front right of my hood), and plugged a fuse into the TAIL holder, and now.. it works just fine. Well.. w/ a fwe minor flaws. When the blinkers are engaged in the left direction, adn the middle (down on the handle, and standard), it shows the little green arrow pointing left. Then after having walked around my car, in all three settings, the front left blinker is consistently one (I guess it's the blinker, it's just next to the headlight). It doesn't flash either, it's just on, nothing special. Also, there is a light by the HVAC system that is on because of it. None of the taillights work.. which isn't surprising though, I have wire issues with them. For now though, my project is getting the relays to work, and at least get the front hazards/blinkers to work, THAT way, I know that if I just wire up the taillights right, then I shouldn't have a problem with them not working.

And ya, I'll give the ATGO a hit sometime when I'm not working on the car.

UPDATE: They all only want to work when I put the park lights on.. :/
BUT THE HAZARDS ARE A GO!!

 

Ok, so here's the current situation. I've done a bit of working around, and I've fixed any/all hazard issues , as mentioned before. Now, I'm working on the blinkers. So now, when I'm just in park and put the blinkers on, neither of the green arrows show up at all. No lights turn on either.. I believe I've narrowed my problems down to:

As mentioned, I'm solely focusing on teh turn hazard atm, since the front lights all work just fine, if I can get the turn flasher working, I'd know by looking at those. I followed teh purple line from the turn flasher relay (led underneath the steering column (Which I guess all the other wires lead up the steering column and get power when I turn on power to thigns such as hazards and blinkers??))
. I guess that's as far as I can get in that direction. So I backtracked back to teh turn flasher relay, and decided following the dark blue line up. I traced one end to the fuse box, which the fuse is still in tact, so I decided to take a left on that chart. Now, it splits into either if you have a manual transmission, or if you have an auto transmission. Mine is standard, so I guess I need to find the backup switch. Only problem is, I have NO idea where that is. Can anyone clarify the location? I'll continue looking, and if time permits, may follow up onto the brake switch relay

EDIT: sorry on double post.. I meant to edit the last :x

 

The reverse switch for a standard t-5 is actually in the trnasmission. It should be a plug about halfway up on the drivers side. (If I remember correctly. My car is an auto)

 

hmm. ok, thanks. I guess that makes sense..it'd be near the reverse gear :/

I'm retarded. Oh well. I'll work on that for a bit. Though while I was out there, I realized my wiring or my taillights themselves was ALL messed up, so I redid most of that wiring, and added the bulk of the brown wires into one main brown wire.

 

If you have any pick and pulls you might be better off to grab your digital camera and have at it. Take plenty of pics and nab yourself an unmolested tailight harness. I know there are plenty of people that part these cars that could also probably help you out.

Shame you didnt buy the car last year... I had a parts firebird being stripped.. everything worked too.

 

hah, timing is one thing I'm HORRIBLE at..

and SPEAKING of timing, I've got some good news and bad news. The GOOD news I have all of my lighting (well.. I guess all of the "major" stuff) DONE. The bad news is it's still in beta.

First off, my turn signals are as off.. BADLY. They'll jump from being on for 2 seconds, to a quick flash, and the timing is just all random. This is for all 4 sides. MY guess is that I need a new turn signal switch, but I'd rather ask everyone else's opinion first

Second, my brake lights are also.. ehh, choppy to say the least. My brakes are horrible.. and when I mean horrible, I MEAN HORRIBLE. I haven't driven the car in a few days now, so for all I know, the brake lights don't come on every time because the breaks may not engage every time... I'm not joking to how bad the braking system is. Regardless, I think it might also be the relay, as Brake switch assembly. Whenever I brake and hold it, it'll hold the brakelights on, however if I take my foot off and push again, they probably won't come on again until I give them a bit of time. When I say probably, I mean.. it's not likely, as the timing there also seems entirely random. Sometimes they come on, sometimes they don't. It's a gambler's dream, however I'd rather not play dice with my breaking system.. or getting a ticket for something as LAME as my brakelight malfunctions.

Anyone have any takes on this one?

 

sounds almost like a bad switch to me. I would verify that the switch is working everytime. (use the multimeter). If they are, it must be an intermittant connection in the wiring...

 

hmm, ok, it's a bit late right now, but I'll def try that out tomorrow.

Would the switch be what is bad on both ends of the deal? I mean.. both the brakelights and the turn signals?

The reason I don't think it'd be the wiring, is because the front turn signals match the back turn signals evenly. If there were any flaw in the wiring, it'd have to be directly form the switch itself, then fed out to both the front and the back. Again, the hazards work both in the front and the back perfectly fine, it's just the brake and the turn lights.

 

I'd pull all bulbs, clean them and the sockets and check grounds. Bad grounds can wreak HAVOC on wiring. Especially turn signals. You mentioned one front turn signal not flashing and staying on constantly, that sure point to a bad ground.

Another thing that could be causing the varying flashing speed of the turn signals is the steering column multi-function switch. You can pull the flasher from the convenience center and just stick a THICK wire in there. Then turn on one turn signal and it should stay on. Wiggle the turn signal lever. Do the turn signals dim/flash/blink? Do the same with the other turn signal side. Then repeat the same test while wiggling the hazard switch (is yours on the steering column as well?)

Hope this helps.
Lou

 

thanks for the reply.

I'll check the grounds a bit today, but as for the front blinker that has not worked before, I redid some of the wiring in the back (connected some brown wires that were not connected, as well as the ground, and the FUNCTION of all the lights works fine now. I don't have that stray light that stays on in teh front anymore, it's just simply a question of the turn-signals and the brake lights. And since all the lights are wired properly (I hope so anyways.. I checked them up and down a few times), and since the hazards work flawlessly, I don't BELIEVE it's a wiring problem.. at least a wiring problem from anything behind the dash. But I'll test out the turn signal flasher in the convenience center like you mentioned, and will get back with any results there. I'll also check out the brake switch. Sounds like somethign in there might be loose or something of the sort.

More info in a little bit. Thanks again! I'd be.. nowhere w/o this

UPDATE: Swapped out break switches w/ another. It works like a charm . So now that just leaves me with the turn signals, which I'm almost positive it's the switch now.

 

TA, given any thought to replacing the harnesses? I have a complete interior wiring harness, including the dash and 140 mph instrument cluster from a 91 GTA...that I have no use for. PM me if interested.

 

Wadebryant: I'll definitely hold that in thought. I can't promise anything right now, as I have so many other projects I have to take care of first to even make this street legal, THEN I'll begin having fun making it.. NOT street legal via adding some power . But for now, I have safety issues :/

Everyone: The wiring project as far as getting all the lights fixed is now DONE! I popped a few new switches in, redid a few wires, and cleaned up any connections, and everything works fine now (except one turn light that's filament fell out.. damn it to hell). Guess I have more time to read the Haynes manual I got today

Now I'm going to start working on the front headlight motors, as the lights stay up, and WON'T come back down. When I turn the headlight switch on/off, it make the sound of the lenses closing, however it won't go down. Also, the caps at the stop spin both when trying to lower, and when already up. Basically, even though the lights are up, if I turn on the headlights, the motor tries to push them up regardless. No fuse problems, but from reading others' posts, I'll check the relays first, then from there, I'll open up the case and take a look inside, and possibly hit TDS up for a rebuild. In any case, I'm not trying to draw a topic any longer by asking for help, but just throwing the message out that I'm working on it, so if you're wondering what's wrong with yours, I might be able to help with things.

UPDATE: Yup.. I went through everything in the relay, and sure enough, everything looked normal. So I dug into the motors (taking bolts out of the chassi with a damned nut-driver SUCKS!), and sure enough, when I opened that area w/ the big white gear.. it had also sprinkled magical white flakes of plastic.

TDS.. here I come