Short version:
Replaced the module with a new Delco unit (yes, used dielectric grease), fired right up. Let it idle for a minute while I cleaned up tools etc, drove it for about 4 miles, then just died. Tried to start again and it just cranked and cranked. Had to get it towed. What's going on?

Long version:
Car had alternator and battery replaced last spring due to lights flickering, not holding a charge etc. Pulled it out from winter storage and the lights were flickering again. But, when the car warmed up, it was usually fine. Driving home from work one day after about 30 minutes in traffic, the volts were dropping, and it died. Pulled over to the side of the road, waiting for a tow, kept trying to start it. It cranked and cranked, but no go, then it just started right up. Drove it home (about another hour) with no problems. (Don't think its related, but my Kenwood stereo started having issues that day). Had the alternator and battery bench tested at AZ, both passed. Drove about 5-7 times afterwards, no problems. Figure it must be an on-car wiring issue, and planned to do the Big 3 and/or some testing for a possible intermittent connection. All grounds (engine to firewall, battery to block and fender) are in place and appear solid. Wife takes the car to work and she says when she is coming down the road, the rpms were bouncing around (but she didn't hear a difference, radio was probably too loud ). She parked in the road, and when I went to put it in the garage, it started, ran for about 30 seconds, then went to put it in reverse and it died. Couldn't restart (even after cooling down, waited two days). Pulled a plug wire and checked for spark by putting to ground when cranking, nothing. Pulled the module, had it tested, failed, and replaced with Delco unit as in the short version. I did snap the head off one of the module bolts so only one is holding it down but I don't think that would matter. I'm going to go out and pull the module and coil and have them tested tomorrow to see if the new module got killed by something, as I had them test it before I left the store and it passed.

Thoughts??? I'm seriously selling the car before I install the C5 brake kit and just buy a G8 GXP when they come out in the fall... This car has been driven like 6,000 miles in the past 3 years because it's always broken down and I don't have the time to fix it and too much pride/not enough money to let a mechanic screw with it.

Thanks
Jeff

 

Well, the module retested fine. I had them hand test the coil, and at one point it seemed like there was an internal short on one of the measurements, but we couldn't repeat. To be safe, I pickup up a replacement and installed it (MSD remote coil). Car started up, but was idling choppy. I let it idle for about 20 minutes while I cleaned up etc, and it eventually wanted to die. RPMs would drop to about 500 then "catch" and bounce up to recover. Went to put it in the garage and it died. Started right back up, and was able to get her covered now at least, but something still isn't right. Not sure what it could be, it was driving fine before this happened... I don't think it could have fouled the plugs, but maybe???

Also, should the outside ring on the pickup coil move at all? With the rotor off, I was looking to see if I could see any cracks etc, and it rotates just a little bit in each direction, looks like there is a keyway and it should do that but figured I would ask.

Thanks!

 

TTT.

Anyone have any thoughts? I think I'm going to have to call the dealer and have them tow it tomorrow...

 

Jeff, is it throwing any codes? As you mentioned in you PM to me, we're having very similar issues. Mine is not throwing any codes at all.
I'm sure you found some of my posts through a search here, but for the people just looking at this thread, here's a list of what all I've replaced and the order in which I've done it.

Pickup coil
ignition coil
cap / rotor
ignition module(2x)
ECM
Distributor
Alternator
Battery

Nothing has had an effect.

I've verified good grounds, power at coil with key on and while cranking, no blown fuses, ECM shows code 12. Car will crank all day long, no spark from coil, injectors not firing (as a result of the no spark), 42psi at rail while cranking.

Please let us know if you have any more suggestions for either or us.
Jeff, if the dealer is successful in getting you car going, please let me know what it was, I may have the same problem.

Thanks!

Dave

 

Nope, no codes. I'm going to find one right now and call for an appt.

 

yeah guys.. we have similar problems. i have an 87 iroc with a 305 tpi. wouldn't start.. i traced it to a bad module. put in a new module and it ran for about 30 seconds. restarted and it ran for a few more second then died. i pulled the module back off and had it tested. it's good. i also bought a new coil and replaced the coil wire.. still nothing. it just cranks and cranks. i just don't have any spark. i have 45 psi of fuel at the rails, the injectors are getting a signal to fire, i have replaced the fuel filter. hopefully one of us can get our cars running and let the other ones know what to look for!!!

good luck.

 

Well, its at the dealership now so hopefully it'll be fixed by the end of the day. My butt is hurting from the anticipated repair bill already...

 

sweet. hope it's inexpensive!

 

Yeah,
Those two words (dealership and inexpensive) rarely occur in the same sentence.

Good story though, the tow truck driver left the keys under the seat (great, I spent $400 on an alarm and you leave the keys in the car), so they didn't even look at it yesterday because they thought it was a trade-in, not there for service (even though I had an appt). Not a good sign...

 

Well they finally looked at it this morning. My hunch above about not a good sign was true.

1) Their customer service skills don't impress me. The service dept. mgr gave me a load of BS about not looking at the car for 2 full days too.
2) They "checked the basics" and it apparently has good spark and good pressure at the rail.
3) They are recommending a leakdown test (@ 3 hrs) before going to an injector test. They say the injectors need to be removed for testing, but didn't quote a time.

My thoughts:
They basically sound like they are trying to get me to "junk" the car, with comments like "you're talking about putting another thousand into the car" etc. Most importantly, it reminds me that last spring I had to put 2 injectors into the car (long story, I bought 8 off of Ebay, installed them, and 2 were bad, so I have 6 from Ebay and 2 original). I'm thinking that maybe one of those injectors may be bad. They could ohm them on the car like I did if they had a clue.

The problem is, a bad injector wouldn't make the car die and not start again, it would only run roughly, so I don't think that is the problem, or at least not the only one. Same thing, one cylinder could not be closing the valve, but it wouldn't make the car die and then not restart.

I think I'm going to have it towed to a different place...

Not having time (or ideas) to fix something yourself really sucks. I get frustrated working on the car until 2am, but I get just as frustrated paying someone else good money to be retarded.

 

that sucks.. i hope your luck picks up.

 

I hate dealers. I do all my own work whenever possible. When I run into something beyond my abilities or knowlege, there is only one place I will take it, and its not a dealer. I just don't trust those jerk-offs working on my vehicle, too many bad personal experiences and horror stories from elsewhere.

I got most of my dash disassembled to look for faulty wiring inside the car since I can find no problems under the hood. So far I've found no evidence of leakage (it was raining when mine broke down), but I have found some rodent debris (mouse poop and some chewed plastic). I'm expecting to find some chewed wires. I'm also going to cut out and replace the three fusible links at the starter, just in case one of them is faulty.

dave

 

Hey have you checked to security wires goind to the ignition switch? I have a 89 RS with 196,000 miles on it. I was having similar problems. I pulled the steering wheel off and found the wire to the switch for the security chip had broke. I just pulled the switch and fixed the wire and zip tied the switch under the dash, and then put a new non chip key ignition in. works great now.

 

I decided to have it towed to a different dealer, one that serviced my Accord for a timing belt and an intermittent no start and impressed me with the latter.

The tech said that the magnet for the p/u coil was cracked, so I gave them approval to replace that and the shaft b/c they said the shaft has a magnet too? I didn't think so but oh well. That's gonna be $450 (plus the $160 already spent at the "jerk-offs"), so I'm hoping that is it. It would explain the running rough (and why it seemed fine before, then killed a module). Not sure it explains why the car would die completely, but we'll see. I had them save the old one for me to look at as well. I wonder if heat would make the crack open up? It seems to want to stall more as it warms up, i.e. driving it onto the tow truck, it died just as it was all the way on (although it restarted)... Seems like now that I replaced the coil (after the module), if it dies, at least it starts back up.

Let's all hope, I'll find out tomorrow.

I agree, i try to do all of my own work, but right now I don't have much time with work, a (sick) little one, and another on the way. Usually I do everything except timing belts

 

The cracked magnet makes perfect sense. Variations in the magnetic fields between the the pickup and the rotating magnet on top the distributor shaft are what signal the coil to fire (its a bit more complex than that, I sort of simplified it). If its cracked, the fields don't change right, and would case a rough running condition, possibly a no spark.
I found my magnet to be broken as well, probably cracked it when I was changing the pickup coil. I replaced the whole distributor, but it didn't solve my problem.
Thanks for the update and good luck, sounds like they're on the right track.

Dave

 

I agree w/ the rough running, but was unsure of the die/no start. I had checked for cracks at one point based on a post I found, but didn't see anything obvious. Part of the reason I want to look at the old one, to see how big/where I missed.

I knew it wasn't fuel injectors

 

OK, picked up the car yesterday, and it runs TONS better. Now, the only problem is that the tach is still bouncing 200-500 rpms...??? The motor rev's don't change, just what the tach is showing. It didn't do this before, and none of the other gauges move, just the tach.

Thoughts? Is there still an issue that needs to be fixed? I don't want to get stranded anymore!

 

Hmm. Don't know what would cause that. The tach signal I believe comes striaght from the distributor (white wire). Could be a bad connection somewhere, problem with ECM or gauge itself. You say the motor is running good?
If it wasn't doing that before, I would take it back to the dealer and have them fix it.

Dave

 

It just dawned on me that when I was attempting to diagnose the problem, I saw that a wire was taped over connected to the coil. I don't remember the color, but now I'm thinking that someone back in time had a tach connected and then pulled it and put it back to "stock". I didn't like the look of the joint, so I pulled it off the car and used a butt connector. Maybe my connection is worse than what was there

I'm on a trip for work so I won't know until Thursday night, but I'm thinking that's it!

 

You might be lucky that it's just the white wire (like I posted in your other thread).
If there is a bad connection on one of the white wires on top of the coil, you will lose spark and the engine will stall.

Hope that's what it is! (crossed fingers)
Lou